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Author Topic: Does Bitcoin really need an ATM?  (Read 6249 times)
Rifat989
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June 13, 2017, 03:05:42 PM
 #101

I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.

I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).

So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).

So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?

In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.


 
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)

yes bitcoin really need an ATM booth
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June 13, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
 #102

I think it is not necessary, because bitcoin can be traded only through the internet network can also Cheesy
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June 13, 2017, 03:45:00 PM
 #103

Currently ATM's have a very big market, the idea of buying coins through peer to peer exchanges are less tempting mainly due to the gigantic amount of fraud linked to it, and the risk of getting a fraudulent payment and suffering from it.
But on ATM's the transactions are easier and better to use overall and don't require ID's and verification like exchanges and much quicker.
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June 13, 2017, 03:49:42 PM
 #104

It's true. Bitcoin will need that kind of integration soon enough we think. There are many customers who will need bitcoin ATM to spend their bitcoin with all the ease. May be a group of old people who are not aware of technology that much but still interested in something like bitcoin. Just imagine bitcoin ATM can bring you real cash at very step foot and no need to do all those waiting long confirmations from network. ,Yes may be it should be there.

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June 13, 2017, 04:24:11 PM
 #105

Bitcoin is in dire need of an ATM machine, if bitcoin uses it is very supportive for us all because it is very easy to get cash from bitcoin.
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June 13, 2017, 04:32:21 PM
 #106

I think it is not necessary, because bitcoin can be traded only through the internet network can also Cheesy

Yes I agree with you it does not need an atm.  Bitcoin is good just by being a bitcoin.  Plus I think it would be more complicated to use because there is no physical money.  Its only function would be to just transfer bitcoins.  But I think it is no real proper usage because everything can be done on the internet.
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June 13, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
 #107

I think a bitcoin ATM is more of a way of advertising bitcoin and spreading it as much as possible. A bitcoin ATM could also be useful for buying bitcoins anonymously with cash. I really wish I had one in my nearby area.

who cares
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June 13, 2017, 06:41:15 PM
 #108

Having an atm in any places of the country will be a  good priviledge to all bitcoin users or community here, imagine if that happen every country will going to have an atm machine, wow! that is so cool and many of the people who don't know about in bitcoin
will become more curious about it and we can easily demonstrate the actual of how bitcoin convert it into a real cash/money.
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June 13, 2017, 06:54:20 PM
 #109

even now atm's in any place and everywhere is better than using any other method to exchange btc, the fees are lower than combined bank transfer and exchange in btc exchange fees. now in us and canada as well as part of europe and asia, atm's are becoming a leading exchange method.
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June 14, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
 #110

There is no harm in installing and operating a few Bitcoin ATMs here and there. I know that a lot of the users still distrust the online exchanges. For such people, the ATMs can be very useful. They can just insert the banknotes and coins, and get Bitcoins in return. No need for any ID verification, and there is no risk of someone hacking in to your online account.

Don't forget that many banks don't really "like" their customers use Bitcoin. The reasons are many - it's the competition, it's somewhat more private than the use of banks (AML?).
Also many people prefer to buy Bitcoin without telling the bank they do that (whether they do that for shady reasons or not).
All in all, BTMs are useful, they show the Bitcoin name in more places around the world and make it more accessible.
Yes, the fees are higher, but for good reason. We need more of them, surely.

This is a major issue. I have seen many threads here, dealing with incidents where the banks closed down bank accounts without any warning, due to the association with Bitcoin trade. In some extreme cases, the funds were frozen, and the freeze was removed after more than a year. I am not sure whether they are doing this due to competition. One reason may be the unclear legal status of Bitcoin.
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June 14, 2017, 06:46:13 AM
 #111

An ATM will help in the promotion as well in gaining popularity of the currency, because right now people who love technology too is not aware of bitcoin. So when an ATM is implemented sure it gains the attention and at least a little of them will start exploring more and learn to be a part of bitcoin. Considering the other side bitcoin ATM's levy big transaction fees than the exchange websites.


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June 14, 2017, 07:23:34 AM
 #112

An ATM will help in the promotion as well in gaining popularity of the currency, because right now people who love technology too is not aware of bitcoin. So when an ATM is implemented sure it gains the attention and at least a little of them will start exploring more and learn to be a part of bitcoin. Considering the other side bitcoin ATM's levy big transaction fees than the exchange websites.
It does not require since we can use regular banks but need to convert our btc prior in time. But having atm can be a big help there will be no hassle on it.

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June 14, 2017, 09:05:34 AM
 #113

Don't forget that many banks don't really "like" their customers use Bitcoin. The reasons are many - it's the competition, it's somewhat more private than the use of banks (AML?).
Also many people prefer to buy Bitcoin without telling the bank they do that (whether they do that for shady reasons or not).
All in all, BTMs are useful, they show the Bitcoin name in more places around the world and make it more accessible.
Yes, the fees are higher, but for good reason. We need more of them, surely.

This is a major issue. I have seen many threads here, dealing with incidents where the banks closed down bank accounts without any warning, due to the association with Bitcoin trade. In some extreme cases, the funds were frozen, and the freeze was removed after more than a year. I am not sure whether they are doing this due to competition. One reason may be the unclear legal status of Bitcoin.

There are a couple of reasons I could think of:
1. lack of legislation
2. fear of competition
3. insufficient knowledge/understanding on this technology and a "I don't care about it" (also because of [2])
4. insufficient means to find out if the funds are legit and pulling out AML reasons (caused by [1], [3] and [2] too)
5. scam attempts between BTC buyers and sellers (localbitcoin and so no) - from buyer using problematic funds, from buyers trying to "charge back", from sellers that did double spends.. (I don't know all this for sure, but I expect that such stories may have happened too).
6. fear (in the banking business) that stolen CC may be used to buy BTC (maybe this also has happened already, leading to [5]).

Yeah, we do need more well implemented BTMs...

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June 14, 2017, 10:05:19 AM
 #114

Actually for me, bitcoin needs to have an ATM. This would be nice if their is an ATM will release all nationwide, this is the way to promote bitcoin to those that cannot understand it. This helps to ease of use bitcoin that may use in any store. This helps of bitcoin to spread awareness and to large its community.

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Lorilikes
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June 14, 2017, 10:35:41 AM
 #115

Smiley Smiley Smiley✨✨Such a great question! ✨✨ Smiley Smiley ; Smiley
I like what this guy said :
Currently ATM's have a very big market, the idea of buying coins through peer to peer exchanges are less tempting mainly due to the gigantic amount of fraud linked to it, and the risk of getting a fraudulent payment and suffering from it.
But on ATM's the transactions are easier and better to use overall and don't require ID's and verification like exchanges and much quicker.

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 

The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!

Even with enormous and almost predatory fee gouges don't slow the stream of people who use it.  They are consistently busy at that ATM every day.  People feel they can trust the familiar box the buttons the receipts ... but people suspect something sneaky out of other people.

Strange humans. Lol.  We don't NEED ATM machines because our wallets will add any trade to the blockchain, as it happens and way cheaper and remember,  some guy owns the machine.  Not an insured bank. Just a guy or girl  with or her coins to sell or buy. That's a fancy wallet. Wink
  *My lifetime career plan includes a peer to peer solution to this ATM problem, more about that in another month.  **

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June 14, 2017, 05:29:50 PM
 #116

Does email need paper?
Yes.

Bitcoin is less reliant on ATMs than classic money, but like email and paper, there are many people who need it. If there is a market, it will be done.
I agree with you. Every time, I have to go to the local exchange but it is very far from my house. So if there were ATMs on the street, I would easily go there and take the money conveniently Grin

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June 14, 2017, 05:50:07 PM
 #117

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 


I think there is a need for an ATM. This is because they connect Bitcoin to Cash. I agree, trust is something that is an issue for bitcoiners, in a peer-to-peer transaction. But, what about the people who aren't tech-savvy enough to even understand what Bitcoin is?

If they want to buy or sell Bitcoins, they can easily use ATMs to do that in a more conventional way. (Which they are comfortable with.)


The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!


I agree, the fee is a lot, when transacting on ATMs. This is something that ATM operators need to work on. I think the fee shouldn't be more than 1-2%. (Currently it's around 7-8%)

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June 15, 2017, 01:37:11 AM
 #118

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 


I think there is a need for an ATM. This is because they connect Bitcoin to Cash. I agree, trust is something that is an issue for bitcoiners, in a peer-to-peer transaction. But, what about the people who aren't tech-savvy enough to even understand what Bitcoin is?

If they want to buy or sell Bitcoins, they can easily use ATMs to do that in a more conventional way. (Which they are comfortable with.)


The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!


I agree, the fee is a lot, when transacting on ATMs. This is something that ATM operators need to work on. I think the fee shouldn't be more than 1-2%. (Currently it's around 7-8%)


✨I appreciate the fact that you actually read my reply and your responses are clear & thoughtful✨ Now, I have to tell you that on any given day, I will be seen at the bitcoin atm despite my long-winded answer, above.  I HATE the fee, but I love the convenience.  It is an evolving perspective and soon I hope to offer a mobile solution in Vegas at least, as soon as my kiosks are funded fully !! 

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June 15, 2017, 01:43:59 AM
 #119

ATM bitcoin certainly gives us easiness in making transactions. Including withdrawals to local currency in our country.
It can help when we need real money quickly. I think ATM bitcoin is very important to give us fast mobility.
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June 15, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
 #120

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority
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