Can You Kidnap Your Own Kid?

[Streetview]

Haha. I think its possible

Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

[Agestorzrxx]

what they did was psychological abuse, possibly bordering on sexual abuse but I don't really know about that. It is inexcusable and that kid will no longer feel safe in his own home. I feel really bad for him having been thru that trauma and I am not a 'kid person'. I hope he can be moved somewhere safer, possibly with another relative who can better protect him. 

[BitMos]

possibly bordering on sexual abuse ...

I always have pleasure to read your post, and of course I wasn't disappointed. I thought the same thing...

[(oYo)]

Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

No-one said ALL kids are assholes, yet there seems to be more and more of them each day because parents either refuse to or feel unable to maintain control over them. Some kids are a delight because they are considerate. Which is no different from how I feel about adults who share the same qualities.

[Lethn]

Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

No-one said ALL kids are assholes, yet there seems to be more and more of them each day because parents either refuse to or feel unable to maintain control over them. Some kids are a delight because they are considerate. Which is no different from how I feel about adults who share the same qualities.

That's my point, you guys act as if all kids who question their orders deserve to be hit for it, I'm going to stop repeating myself now because this isn't really going anywhere, you may think your justified with one or two kids who are acting like total cunts for no reason but what about all the children out there ( Again with parents that tend to be religious ) who see through their own parents' bullshit and hypocrisy and when they point it out they end up getting hit for it?

These laws are designed to protect kids like that, children are have to be one of the worst abused and opressed groups in history among all others purely because of how defenceless they are most of the time and it's about time people started owning up to the kind of bullshit they make them deal with.

[grendel25]

Yeah, it's not a matter of if the parents condoned it or not.  It's a matter of a sentient human being taken against their will and that's abduction or kidnapping.

[(oYo)]

Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

No-one said ALL kids are assholes, yet there seems to be more and more of them each day because parents either refuse to or feel unable to maintain control over them. Some kids are a delight because they are considerate. Which is no different from how I feel about adults who share the same qualities.

That's my point, you guys act as if all kids who question their orders deserve to be hit for it, I'm going to stop repeating myself now because this isn't really going anywhere, you may think your justified with one or two kids who are acting like total cunts for no reason but what about all the children out there ( Again with parents that tend to be religious ) who see through their own parents' bullshit and hypocrisy and when they point it out they end up getting hit for it?

These laws are designed to protect kids like that, children are have to be one of the worst abused and opressed groups in history among all others purely because of how defenceless they are most of the time and it's about time people started owning up to the kind of bullshit they make them deal with.

I absolutely do not agree with parents being assholes towards children and hitting them for no good reason either. That's child abuse.

BTW, there's no reason to bring up religion in nearly every comment you make. This thread has nothing to do with religion. There's people who are religious that would never hit their kids, as well as there being people who aren't religious which do hit their kids. You're like the forum's opposing force to BADecker, who unashamedly promotes his dogma.

Yeah, it's not a matter of if the parents condoned it or not.  It's a matter of a sentient human being taken against their will and that's abduction or kidnapping.

I disagree. Parents often take their kids to school, or to visit relatives, etc. against the will of their kids. This is not a crime, much less a kidnapping by any stretch of the imagination. The parents condoning it is absolutely what makes all the difference here. The real crime here is the manner in which it is done. In this case specifically, the appalling treatment the child received during his ordeal is nothing less than (child) abuse and everyone involved is despicable, but I still wouldn't consider it kidnapping.

[ajareselde]

Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

No-one said ALL kids are assholes, yet there seems to be more and more of them each day because parents either refuse to or feel unable to maintain control over them. Some kids are a delight because they are considerate. Which is no different from how I feel about adults who share the same qualities.

Most kids just lack parenting, and its easier for some to on the line with less resistance and let their child run wild.
That kid in question definetly got kidnaped, held in restrain against his will, and that was a big step over the line,
and the thing about situations like theese is that court needs to make an example out of theese parents to minimise risk of some genious repeating this scene.

cheers

[(oYo)]

Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

No-one said ALL kids are assholes, yet there seems to be more and more of them each day because parents either refuse to or feel unable to maintain control over them. Some kids are a delight because they are considerate. Which is no different from how I feel about adults who share the same qualities.

Most kids just lack parenting, and its easier for some to on the line with less resistance and let their child run wild.
That kid in question definetly got kidnaped, held in restrain against his will, and that was a big step over the line,
and the thing about situations like theese is that court needs to make an example out of theese parents to minimise risk of some genious repeating this scene.

cheers

Apologies. The subject of some kids acting like assholes has nothing to do with this incident whatsoever, but is a sentiment carried over from a different thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=947171.0

Getting back on topic. Whether or not the term 'kidnapping' is accurately being used to describe what happened in this story, I certainly feel we can all agree that everyone involved is definitely guilty of child abuse. To think that some parents might copy this in some pathetic attempt to teach their own children about 'stranger danger' never even crossed my mind, since I would hope that anyone else hearing about it would find it as equally absurd and disturbing as I do.

[jeffhuys]

Well, I've read about it a lot, and I think it's very possible to kidnap your own kid.
For instance, what if the mother and father get into a fight and the dad takes the kid "hostage" as to make the mother "change her mind".
Or the mother kidnaps the kid, whatever feels better to you.
I'd call that kidnapping, what else would you call it? A field trip? 

[Lethn]

BTW, there's no reason to bring up religion in nearly every comment you make. This thread has nothing to do with religion. There's people who are religious that would never hit their kids, as well as there being people who aren't religious which do hit their kids. You're like the forum's opposing force to BADecker, who unashamedly promotes his dogma.

Thanks! I take that as a compliment! Because I AM the opposing force to people like BADecker, that said, it was disturbing how much we all agreed on the issue of freedom of speech but things are getting back to normal now. Sure, I can accept that there will be non-religious people who think hitting their kids does something, they're assholes too, but at least they don't use an invisible god to try and justify their violence, I am of course against it all though but the thing is people actually draw inspiration from the fucking bible a lot of the time that going around hitting their own kids is totally fine which is why religion is always an issue with this kind of crap.

I'm also being fairly polite here, I really do consider it just beating the shit out of them most of the time, because for how 'uncontrollable' they are they don't put up much of a fight when they're hit do they? Kind of invalidates the whole idea that it does something in the first place and that it's necessary.

I'd call that kidnapping, what else would you call it? A field trip?

They're just trying to sugar coat this kind of bullshit to make themselves feel better because they know it reflects horribly on their mantra about children needing discipline.

[erikalui]

IT's not the right way to teach your child and the child may instead start hating the person for doing it. For me the answer would be an obvious no.

[TrianglePythagoras]

That's straight up child abuse to me. Leaving the kid tied up in the basement for FOUR hours is way too far.

Seriously, you're going to argue the semantics of how long they were tied up their rather than the actual act itself?

I did make it seem as if I was talking about that last part. I'm sorry about that, Talking about the incident as a whole and giving that side information at the same time.

[jaysabi]

That's straight up child abuse to me. Leaving the kid tied up in the basement for FOUR hours is way too far.

Seriously, you're going to argue the semantics of how long they were tied up their rather than the actual act itself?

I did make it seem as if I was talking about that last part. I'm sorry about that, Talking about the incident as a whole and giving that side information at the same time.

Haha, it did seem like you were saying tying him up for four hours is what made this wrong, like if they had only tied him up for an hour, everything would have been fine. Perhaps you just enunciated it poorly, but I think maybe you brought up that bit about him being tied up for four hours as evidence as to how out of control and unreasonable these people were, not the singular point of what made it wrong.

[dsly]

IT's not the right way to teach your child and the child may instead start hating the person for doing it. For me the answer would be an obvious no.

If you just take them to a different house or something, they might never know. Untill they are back

[Lethn]

That's straight up child abuse to me. Leaving the kid tied up in the basement for FOUR hours is way too far.

Seriously, you're going to argue the semantics of how long they were tied up their rather than the actual act itself?

I did make it seem as if I was talking about that last part. I'm sorry about that, Talking about the incident as a whole and giving that side information at the same time.

Haha, it did seem like you were saying tying him up for four hours is what made this wrong, like if they had only tied him up for an hour, everything would have been fine. Perhaps you just enunciated it poorly, but I think maybe you brought up that bit about him being tied up for four hours as evidence as to how out of control and unreasonable these people were, not the singular point of what made it wrong.

lol if you didn't mean that then it's fine, I tend to always get pretty hostile with this sort of thing because there are people out there as you can see who genuinely think treating children in this kind of way is their moral prerogative.

[ObscureBean]

The problem with cases like these is that holistic solutions are never really possible. People will almost invariably side with the child but what they fail to appreciate is that what's acceptable and what's not is a purely relative thing (here assuming that the parents only had the best interest in mind and that this stunt is not is direct contradiction with the rest of the child's upbringing).
For example, there are tribal practices, involving children, in places like Africa that westerners would immediately condemn. 

[jaysabi]

The problem with cases like these is that holistic solutions are never really possible. People will almost invariably side with the child but what they fail to appreciate is that what's acceptable and what's not is a purely relative thing (here assuming that the parents only had the best interest in mind and that this stunt is not is direct contradiction with the rest of the child's upbringing).
For example, there are tribal practices, involving children, in places like Africa that westerners would immediately condemn. 

Parents may vary wildly in their habits of bringing up their children, but child abuse is a little bit like porn or art, in that most of the time, you know it when you see it. In this case, I believe these actions had a good intention (the long term safety of the kid by not trusting strangers), but there's no question in my mind that this was child abuse.

[RodeoX]

Lesson learned... By Mom. 

[Armis]

This matter is sad on so many levels:

1) clearly the kid was traumatized, but that was obviously the intent of the exercise,
2) the "scaring for life" is shared by the whole family as well as the coworker,
3) the state (via police and DA) is clearly trying to inflict their own brand of trauma and terror on the whole family, and their damages are not just physiological, but financial, and will very likely impact them socially for a very long time.

All of the responsible actors (family and state) went overboard and everyone did so in what they felt was the best interest of the kid, but obviously NONE of it is serving any short term good and the likelihood is that the "kidnapping" in all of its idiocy will likely serve as a far better lesson for the kid then the mass arrest, persecution, and prosecution of his family in an attempt to correct their internal injustice.

Depending how the narrative is written the story is either bad or worse, but the underlined fact is the child was not in any real or meaningful danger.  The intent of the family is clear they were trying to protect their family member.  As more rational and logical minds try to judge the family's foolish they should also hear of all of the child abduction stories to get a better understanding of how their fears provoked such irrational behavior.  

It should not take a police officer, a DA, much less a criminal court judge to see this was just a case of magnificent stupidity.  Unless the family has a history of child abuse this should not have risen above a civil matter (family services).

The wicked irony is through all of this the kid is now truly taken from his family, traumatize for substantially longer than 4 hours, and placed with real "strangers" who actually care less than his family about his actual welfare.  

The bail provisions were additionally wicked, I'd really like to hear the whole story including the back story (family history).