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Shield
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April 01, 2016, 08:33:45 PM |
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If hacker is reading my message(I am 100% sure he is  ) Those tokens are useless for hacker, so better he give them back to Ohad to save time of Ohad and others.if he do refund then it can solve the issue a bit. according to this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=950309.msg14378761#msg14378761436478.75 AGRS in hand of users who are ready to cooperate so if Ohad gets those 20.5M (from hacker) and 436478.75 AGRS (from buyers) back then he get almost all of them back expect <0.15% tokens that were sold to unknown buyer. Now its upto hacker what he want to do, keep those useless tokens or give them back to save time of developer and others tokens can returned to original address that is used to distribute them 14gF3Up7wdRdkxAL4GgQLdnM8CThgDUSHR Looks like hacker read my message, I see a recent transaction on 14gF3Up7wdRdkxAL4GgQLdnM8CThgDUSHR https://blockchain.info/tx/8d28f45701eaa4d54fd5450cfc67d0cb50049e5e6df5802b5e05b3c03290d348lets wait Ohad for update, I hope all 20.5m coins were returned |
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yuyu123
Newbie
 Offline
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
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April 01, 2016, 08:44:16 PM |
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Bittrex not willing to cooperate and rollback the trades? Don't trade there..
I will second that. And somehow the crap keeps piling up on Bittrex. Made so many bad experiences over there, I am fed up. Sorry, but we are an exchange and did exactly what we are designed to do. It is not our fault that someone sold legitimate coins here that you want to invalidate. Do as you please, but I'm not going to do things that are detrimental to our system and users. richie@bittrex These are your users, we all trade and used to trade on your platform, get your priorities straight. Richie, Did you considered my second suggestion, here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=950309.msg14385736#msg14385736It is not required a roll-back, and it is very easy to implement. The stolen token are held by 10 users maximum. You can exclude them from the automatic replacement process and handle their accounts manually. I am not seeing why it is a problem to do it. |
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yuyu123
Newbie
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Activity: 40
Merit: 0
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April 01, 2016, 08:53:09 PM |
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friends, the show must go on.
let's reach a consensus or i'll have to simply send all new tokens except the 20.5M.
the exchange suspension strongly harms the project.
let's have a deadline until tomorrow in midnight GMT (~30 hours from now)
I still hope Bittrex will cooperate with us to distinguish the stolen tokens from the legitimate one, and receive for them BTC instead of replacement IDNI tokens, but if not, Ohad can send Bittrex replacement IDNI tokens only for the legitimate tokens (not for the 500,000 stolen tokens) and the holders of the stolen tokens (I guess, less than 10 users) can contact Ohad to request him the bitcoin amount they paid for the stolen tokens. |
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ohad (OP)
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April 01, 2016, 09:16:15 PM |
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Tau-Chain & Agoras
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ohad (OP)
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April 01, 2016, 09:22:24 PM
Last edit: April 02, 2016, 03:30:06 AM by ohad |
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i suggest we first come up with a method that prevents loss to all buyers. then, if we can do some cosmic level justice, that'd be great, and that's what tau is about. still preventing loss is more important than preventing profit.
at any case if it'll be decided to pay the bitcoins back to the buyers of the 500K, i'll pay that.
problem is we don't know who are they all, while we cannot discriminate between them.
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Tau-Chain & Agoras
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cryptoman77777
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April 01, 2016, 09:36:40 PM |
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Bittrex does not bring back stolen tokens?!
this is a disaster!
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yournotsosmart
Newbie
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Activity: 1
Merit: 0
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April 01, 2016, 10:00:28 PM |
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i ty send more 10 mills and wont send they ask for high bitcon fee |
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kirby9058
Newbie
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Activity: 50
Merit: 0
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April 02, 2016, 02:34:45 AM |
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the coin is no good to him/her/them so it us just stupid to keep it
EDIT, the guy who said he got dumped on what happens his coins?
you are euzen who was selling 500k tokens below market price i sold you this account elliwilli and now you are pretending to be a honest user i can give proof if someone wants shame on you man  |
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DecentralizeEconomics
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
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April 02, 2016, 07:34:52 AM |
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Bittrex not willing to cooperate and rollback the trades? Don't trade there..
I will second that. And somehow the crap keeps piling up on Bittrex. Made so many bad experiences over there, I am fed up. Sorry, but we are an exchange and did exactly what we are designed to do. It is not our fault that someone sold legitimate coins here that you want to invalidate. Do as you please, but I'm not going to do things that are detrimental to our system and users. richie@bittrex Well, I guess that's one opinion on the situation, but I'll wager to say that the majority of honest individuals don't view stolen coins as "legitimate coins". |
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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honesthodler
Newbie
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Activity: 2
Merit: 0
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April 02, 2016, 07:43:51 AM |
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the coin is no good to him/her/them so it us just stupid to keep it
EDIT, the guy who said he got dumped on what happens his coins?
you are euzen who was selling 500k tokens below market price i sold you this account elliwilli and now you are pretending to be a honest user i can give proof if someone wants shame on you man lurk of this sub for quite some time and also holder of agoras token, but have to agree with user kirby9058. His account activity looks fishy. Take some time and look at his post history; Trying to lend 10btc with an altcoin @34006 as collateral. Account was inactive from nov. 2015, that person wrote with English tongue, this guy is not. EDIT: fixed broken link |
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BoscoMurray
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April 02, 2016, 07:59:57 AM |
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i suggest we first come up with a method that prevents loss to all buyers. then, if we can do some cosmic level justice, that'd be great, and that's what tau is about. still preventing loss is more important than preventing profit.
at any case if it'll be decided to pay the bitcoins back to the buyers of the 500K, i'll pay that.
problem is we don't know who are they all, while we cannot discriminate between them.
Bittrex could give you a list of addresses that the coins are withdrawn to, and the average price those people paid. Those users could send their Agoras to a burn address that you control. When you receive them, confirm they do actually come from said address, and pay them their BTC in return. Maybe a little work for Bittrex and you - in fact, I don't know if this is even possible. Just an idea. |
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lordoliver
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1020
expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()
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April 02, 2016, 08:03:47 AM
Last edit: April 02, 2016, 08:18:33 AM by lordoliver |
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I thought about it again.
I try to summarize the numbers (please correct me, if something is wrong):
42.0M Tokens
05.0M IPO sold Tokens
09.5M stolen Tokens but curently not sellable
00.5M stolen Tokens dumped at lower price and are eligible for a later dump below IPO price.
So we see that the guy sold about 10% of the IPO tokens. So ohad said he would give 10% more coins to compensate it.
But even if ohad managed to distinuish the coins and gave everyone else 10% more new tokens, it would still look like this:
42.0M Tokens
05.5M IPO sold Tokens
00.5M stolen Tokens sold at lower price and are eligible for a later dump below IPO price.
so the stolen coins selling percentage shrank 1%... there is nearly no difference...
If BITTREX does not manage to rollback the trades. The only reasonable possiblity is to buy the coins somehow back.
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Pofick
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April 02, 2016, 09:12:03 AM |
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What should I do with my coins on bittrex to be fine?
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rocanonz
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April 02, 2016, 10:18:24 AM |
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It must be in the interest of all the legitimate buyers to come together to a common conclusion ASAP.
The bank argument vs. crypto doesn't hold up. Even in crypto-space, means to do justice must be found.
If you buy a stolen car and you are found, are you still entitled to own the car or you should return the property and be compensated?
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BoscoMurray
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April 02, 2016, 10:32:25 AM |
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What should I do with my coins on bittrex to be fine?
Provided that you did not buy your coins from the thief who dumped them at a low price, you don't need to do anything. You will automatically be allocated your fair and correct share of new tokens (I think). It is only those people who had low priced buy orders and inadvertently bought from the thief who need concern themselves with what might happen to their coins. Although, it is a concern to us all, since it affects the value of our legitimate holdings. |
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ohad (OP)
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April 02, 2016, 11:01:24 AM |
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i suggest we first come up with a method that prevents loss to all buyers. then, if we can do some cosmic level justice, that'd be great, and that's what tau is about. still preventing loss is more important than preventing profit.
at any case if it'll be decided to pay the bitcoins back to the buyers of the 500K, i'll pay that.
problem is we don't know who are they all, while we cannot discriminate between them.
Bittrex could give you a list of addresses that the coins are withdrawn to, and the average price those people paid. Those users could send their Agoras to a burn address that you control. When you receive them, confirm they do actually come from said address, and pay them their BTC in return. Maybe a little work for Bittrex and you - in fact, I don't know if this is even possible. Just an idea. bittrex are regulated in the USA (toughest regulation). so they really cant do anything or even tell us what they can do. the current situation is that bittrex won't revert the trades, and only one buyer from the buyers who bought the 500K is known. |
Tau-Chain & Agoras
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BoscoMurray
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April 02, 2016, 11:32:20 AM |
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i suggest we first come up with a method that prevents loss to all buyers. then, if we can do some cosmic level justice, that'd be great, and that's what tau is about. still preventing loss is more important than preventing profit.
at any case if it'll be decided to pay the bitcoins back to the buyers of the 500K, i'll pay that.
problem is we don't know who are they all, while we cannot discriminate between them.
Bittrex could give you a list of addresses that the coins are withdrawn to, and the average price those people paid. Those users could send their Agoras to a burn address that you control. When you receive them, confirm they do actually come from said address, and pay them their BTC in return. Maybe a little work for Bittrex and you - in fact, I don't know if this is even possible. Just an idea. bittrex are regulated in the USA (toughest regulation). so they really cant do anything or even tell us what they can do. the current situation is that bittrex won't revert the trades, and only one buyer from the buyers who bought the 500K is known. Then I think the only thing that can be done is to distribute new tokens, 1 for 1, except the 20.5M. Buying back the 500k from honest individuals may seem like a reasonable effort too, but if you would be using BTC gained from the ICO/IPO (or whatever this is), then is that really worthwhile? Taking money out the the development pot is possibly worse than diluting the legitimate coin supply... I'm only guessing here at your source of BTC for the buy back. |
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ohad (OP)
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April 02, 2016, 11:34:50 AM
Last edit: April 02, 2016, 02:05:50 PM by ohad |
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Buying back the 500k from honest individuals may seem like a reasonable effort too, but if you would be using BTC gained from the ICO/IPO (or whatever this is), then is that really worthwhile? Taking money out the the development pot is possibly worse than diluting the legitimate coin supply... I'm only guessing here at your source of BTC for the buy back.
we don't even know who the buyers are except one, so as for now buying them back is simply impossible due to lack of information. and yes this comes from the sales, no other source and it's the project's best interest to follow the buyer's decisions, and the amount is not huge. |
Tau-Chain & Agoras
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ohad (OP)
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April 02, 2016, 03:29:32 PM |
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midnight GMT is too soon as i see people trying to schedule discussions and the time is running till then. let's postpone it in another 24 hours to the next midnight GMT
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Tau-Chain & Agoras
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klosure
Newbie
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Activity: 50
Merit: 0
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April 02, 2016, 04:10:41 PM |
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Some update on the situation.
We have been investigating the identity of the scammer over the last couple of days. Luckily, he appears to be an amateur who thinks he is safe going through Tor but doesn't know how to set up his routing table properly to have out-of-band traffic route transparently over Tor. He is also suprizingly naive and fell for the obvious click bait that Ohad put in his latest email, thanks to which we now have a full packet dump and IDS traces of his multiple failed attempts at fetching an imaginary "final_proposal_v2" file that Ohad convinced him was waiting for him on Tauchain's server, complete with misrouted DNS queries, unobfuscated http headers, and a whole bunch of system finger prints. We also have his session info at TrustWave and TrendMicro (which he doesn't know how to configure properly either it seems), and plenty of gmail endorsed email proofs of this fraud.
As if that wasn't enough, as some have already noticed he has also been careless about managing his sock puppet accounts and keeps making the same grammatical faults (are been, is been, was been...), using the same broken idioms everywhere, and having his accounts support each other's fishy claims. We have been able to correlate him with a good bunch of Bitcointalk and social media accounts with a high degree of confidence, which means that we have a lot more charges to put against him when this affair goes to court. Oh and his ledger trails are laughably easy to track and nicely matching with addresses used by his sock puppets.
At this point we are confident that we have plenty enough material to justify engaging legal action against him. We are still discussing about what course to pursue on the matter. I'll be posting on the progress.
In the mean time and until further notice, we should still assume that the funds are gone and we will need to address quickly the issue of reissuing the assets, decide how to absorb the loss, and resume trading. Let's have this discussion going and come to an agreement.
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