ayn rand

[Ashkelon]

Hello everyone, thought I'd ask this here are bitcoin tends to attract all sorts of creazies (found my way here, didn't I?)
I've justn finished reading the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand ans as usual after reading her books, I'm confused. On the one hand there is a quite good storytelling skill, with mastery of the hero with a thousand faces as well as emphatic developement. On the other hand there is a very strong ugliness of spirit, appeal to man's (and woman, everyone is shit) baser instincts and social theories that generally only hold up to a mild breeze..

I'm not sure what I'm trying to discuss, but there should be enough fodder here for a few pages.

Oh yes, a question! Why do I like those books? I'm a dyed in the wool troskyite who has been that way for a very long time. Why do I like her style?b She's the moral equivalent of the root of negative one.


help?

When people ask me what I'm reading, I tell them a treatise about facist archistecture (the fountainhead) or motor design, how do we explain this shamefulk attraction to her work?

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[nevafuse]

I'm not going to lie, your post isn't very coherent.  But if your question is what do people see in her books, I might be able to answer that.  I personally can relate with her books.  In Atlas, her vision of the future is my vision of the future.  I don't think our current government operates in the best interest of its people.  Too much regulation crushes productivity & innovation.  When less than 100% are in charge, it makes it easier & easier for them to be bribed or just plain bias.  Her dream world is my dream world.  And bitcoin gets us that much closer in my opinion.  But you'll definitely find people on this forum that detest her ideals.  I'm not sure if they dislike bitcoin as well or see it as a way to promote their own society.

[niemivh]

It was the meth.

[RodeoX]

I thought Atlas was an interesting story. But she likes to exhault the virtuous side of the guilded age wealthy elites while glossing over the awful outcomes it brought most Americans. She has to invent greedy government agencies and forget about the profound greed that brought down the markets in the 20's. I think "There will be blood" is a better look into the minds of such barrons.

[SpontaneousDisorder]

Her ideal was man as an end in himself. This relates perfectly to Bitcoin. We own it to enrich ourselves, not the fucking financial elite and free spending dictators.

[cbeast]

Bitcoin has nothing to do with Randian philosphy. It takes a globally funded internet to even begin to develop something like Bitcoin. You can't control your own money and control the network it runs on. It takes a collective agreement to allow the internet to exist. Rand didn't understand that the people that took her father's wealth were desperate and got that way because of unbridled capitalism. It doesn't justify their actions, but for some reason Rand used her spite to justify her own equally unreasonable worldview.

[TheButterZone]

Haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but I did see the first movie (second has yet to be released). It is bone-chilling how similar it is to reality. If you want to not be fucked over by the government and run an honest business these days, then you need to ask: Who is John Galt?

[smithy]

She was an ugly dyke.

[2weiX]

don't spoil it for me, it's the next book on my shelf.
still, subbed for future discussion^^

[cbeast]

You can say that communism was implemented imperfectly, and I say that capitilism now is implemented imperfectly (the imperfection is central banking, minimum wage, and unions), but look at the result of an imperfect communism vs an imperfect capitalism - I'd rather be poor in South Korea than North Korea (where I may actually starve to death!). 

If you want to compare communism and capitalism, North Korea would be best compared to many African nations. Rand uses many fallacious arguments to make her points. That's fine for a fiction writer, but just don't take her seriously. Like I said, the magic motor she uses to drive her point is a gimmick like every other fantasy writer uses. In real life, amazingly incredible machines are built by huge government run or at least subsidized enterprises. I didn't see any government try to take Steve Jobs' work away from him because it wasn't that amazing. OTOH, I don't see individuals building space telescopes or super-colliders either and those are pretty amazing.

[TheButterZone]

Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?

[cbeast]

Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?

I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?

[FirstAscent]

You can say that communism was implemented imperfectly, and I say that capitilism now is implemented imperfectly (the imperfection is central banking, minimum wage, and unions), but look at the result of an imperfect communism vs an imperfect capitalism - I'd rather be poor in South Korea than North Korea (where I may actually starve to death!). 

If you want to compare communism and capitalism, North Korea would be best compared to many African nations. Rand uses many fallacious arguments to make her points. That's fine for a fiction writer, but just don't take her seriously. Like I said, the magic motor she uses to drive her point is a gimmick like every other fantasy writer uses. In real life, amazingly incredible machines are built by huge government run or at least subsidized enterprises. I didn't see any government try to take Steve Jobs' work away from him because it wasn't that amazing. OTOH, I don't see individuals building space telescopes or super-colliders either and those are pretty amazing.

Great video. Turn the volume up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rXtG3vfAlA

[FirstAscent]

btw, bitcoin is unbridled capitalism, that's why I'm here... why are you lefties here?

To show that unbridled capitalism in world of 7 million is the fastrack to picking the lowest hanging fruit until there are no more fruit to pick. The free market is the sum of all market participants, each with their own agendas, many, if not most, completely ignorant of what they're doing.

[cbeast]

btw, bitcoin is unbridled capitalism, that's why I'm here... why are you lefties here?

To show that unbridled capitalism in world of 7 million is the fastrack to picking the lowest hanging fruit until there are no more fruit to pick. The free market is the sum of all market participants, each with their own agendas, many, if not most, completely ignorant of what they're doing.

Bitcoin is not unbridled capitalism. Try running Bitcoin without the internet.

[myrkul]

Bitcoin is not unbridled capitalism. Try running Bitcoin without the internet.

Which is why getting a decentralized mesh network up and running is (or should be) a priority. At least for some protocols, like Bitcoin's.

[TheButterZone]

Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?

I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?

LOL

If you didn't keep this forum alive with donations I'd LMGTFY you...

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/findyourschool

[Nefario]

I thought Atlas was an interesting story. But she likes to exhault the virtuous side of the guilded age wealthy elites while glossing over the awful outcomes it brought most Americans. She has to invent greedy government agencies and forget about the profound greed that brought down the markets in the 20's. I think "There will be blood" is a better look into the minds of such barrons.

I'm sorry but she didn't have to invent these agencies, she grew up in the SovietUnion and knew full well what the application of communism was, besides today do you not see Atlas shrugged playing out in slow motion?

[kokjo]

http://xkcd.com/1049/

my only comment to ayn rand threads, read the mouse-over.

[myrkul]

http://xkcd.com/1049/

my only comment to ayn rand threads, read the mouse-over.

Yup. She had everything right, except the solution.