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acquafredda
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August 24, 2015, 09:42:14 AM
 #1

There was no one "cause" for the Roman Empire to fall: it was a series of things.

I'm not saying that BTC is an empire but I want to use the Roman Empire metaphor as an example of what we should expect if this ecosystem keep on battling and disputing this way.

I think the major problem is that this world has no leadership whatsoever: without Satoshi no one here represents the role of the leader.
Linux still works because of Linus Torvalds, you know that. The same goes for GNU that without his knight Stallman will be just a dream of the past.

When there's no one in command civil wars start. And this is what I see in this community right now.

So put together all this:
no leadership;
disputes among developers;
pressure from the media and the economic world;
no clear vision about the future

and than you may see this is the recipe to go down.

I do think this Bitcoin is an exceptional thing: I'm not a dev but a true romantic lover of this technology.

Most of us in here share the same age.

I remember in 2001 when I downloaded my first song with Napster: 45 minutes with an old 56K modem! Smiley
And even if it was really expensive to use Internet at that time I didn't care to leave the client open to share it with someone else.
That's the beauty behind eMule too. You give and take in a loop that involves someone who you'll never know anything about!
That's sharing.
And, maybe I'm too idealist, but that's what I thought I liked of the BTC world. And I'm conscious that everything has pros and cons.

Of course, my idealistic view is mitigated by the awareness of the trading world.
People here just care about prices and gettin' rich as soon as possible.

We're living in this enormous experiment called Bitcoin and no one knows where it's going to end.
As in the early days of the Internet I want to be here to feel part of it.
And then whatever happens it's okay.

Hold and be well...
 Wink
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RaginglikeaBoss
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August 24, 2015, 09:44:52 AM
 #2

Honestly, the thought of Hitler ran through my mind during the entirety of your post.

I love the enthusiasm, but Bitcoin tends to favor decentralization.

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August 24, 2015, 10:05:12 AM
 #3

Techically Bitcoin is decentralized but its price is controlled by speculators which is also early adopters. If no one use Bitcoin anymore who do they sell their Bitcoins? Reaching a consensus will happen indisputably at the end.
Bitcoin saw other hard times and this experiment is still going on. I don't see a dangerous situation right now.
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August 24, 2015, 10:09:24 AM
 #4

Honestly, the thought of Hitler ran through my mind during the entirety of your post.

I love the enthusiasm, but Bitcoin tends to favor decentralization.

I did not call for a dictator. I called for a leader. That's very different.
 Wink
Difficulty is a measure of how difficult it is to find
a hash below a given target.
The Bitcoin network has a global block difficulty.
Valid blocks must have a hash below this target.
Mining pools also have a pool-specific share
difficulty setting a lower limit for shares.

Honestly, I did not get your random reply...

Techically Bitcoin is decentralized but its price is controlled by speculators which is also early adopters. If no one use Bitcoin anymore who do they sell their Bitcoins? Reaching a consensus will happen indisputably at the end.
Bitcoin saw other hard times and this experiment is still going on. I don't see a dangerous situation right now.

I don't see it either but I see it, as I said as the most difficult BTC time.
I'm not sure if a consensus is that easy though.
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August 24, 2015, 12:02:56 PM
 #5

"Leadership"? That means, to make Bitcoin centralized? Undecided

Difficulty is a measure of how difficult it is to find
a hash below a given target.
The Bitcoin network has a global block difficulty.
Valid blocks must have a hash below this target.
Mining pools also have a pool-specific share
difficulty setting a lower limit for shares.

This thread is not talking about mining difficulty.

astrobitcoin
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August 24, 2015, 12:15:08 PM
 #6


I think the major problem is that this world has no leadership whatsoever: without Satoshi no one here represents the role of the leader.
Linux still works because of Linus Torvalds, you know that. The same goes for GNU that without his knight Stallman will be just a dream of the past.



there is no need for a leader.
the whole bitcoin story is an exercise to think differently. we have to think in a new way, a decentralized way.
it's good that satoshi is not interfering with this, bitcoin is NOT his but is OUR thing

we don't need any lead, needing a leader basically means that the decentralized idea is a big FAIL, that we are still not prepared (as humans) to work with it. better talk again in this terms in 50 or maybe 100 years.
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August 24, 2015, 12:18:29 PM
 #7

It's not just difficult time for bitcoin but the whole crypto scene.

If Blockstream comes out with a victory in January then we can pretty much wave good bye to the idea that decentralized crypto currencies are anti-fragile.
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August 24, 2015, 12:27:58 PM
 #8

Well isn't this a definition of decentralization? This lack of leadership that you are mentioning. I mean yes, the decision making process is much harder in a decentralized system, but the system by itself is just much more robust.

And this is something that we were proud of, the decentralization. Now all of the sudden, this is a problem. Nothing is perfect, and everything in life has a good and a bad side, it's just how it is. The bad side of decentralization is a decision making process and we have to learn to live with it.

After all, Bitcoin mechanism will take care of everything, you will see.
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August 24, 2015, 12:30:39 PM
 #9

It is normal that is the most difficult time. There is born another coin named bitcoin which is practically the same with the first. It is normal that can be organised a big mess and the people be confused about both coins.
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August 24, 2015, 12:41:27 PM
 #10

this the the most difficult time for bitcoin economy because the blocks are getting bigger and harder day by day and also this is the bignning of this new digital cryptocurrency it will take much time and effort to go to mainstram its price is way more flexible and its quite dangerous for econmy if full depended on this...well tell me if there is any more reasons except it
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August 24, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
 #11

I am sure OP is too much Depressed on Bitcoin's Present scenario , and he as a old Member Over Here should Be.
I don't Know if I should Say this Or not But As women's have Periods over regular interval of time , same is happening with Bitcoin(Because of lack of Better word I used this analogy) , i will not Talk of Much Past but Yeah you can see the Previous Year also it happened the same , nearly this time of year the Price was Down to depth , though the reasons were not same.
As a Optimistic and enthusiastic person in Bitcoin i would say if bitcoin need to survive then it should not be much affected. All as person we can do is to keep our hope in Bitcoin as its the mother Currency of Ours and let keep go all stuffs and "Altcoins"(as called by Theymos).

I will still keep BITCOINS even if its price is 1BTC = 1$.

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August 24, 2015, 01:02:31 PM
 #12

We always had leaders in Bitcoin. Saying something else is just romantic BS.
The current problem is: We don't agree on who our leader is.

Decentralization/consensus is a nice wet dream, but in the end it just can't work.
Say we need 90% of the mining power to make a change: That means a charismatic leader, who influences 11% of the mining network, can block every change.
It's not, that everyone checks all facts and so the consensus comes to an informed decision.
The last few days showed, that even long-term member on this forum, just read head-lines and come to an conclusion without bothering to read a whole thread.
So, to take influence here, you just have to find a good headline and make a long enough OP, that somehow seems like research. Most people on here, will not really read it, but will tell everybody, that this guy made a good research.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
acquafredda
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August 24, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
 #13

"Leadership"? That means, to make Bitcoin centralized? Undecided


No please I am not talking about being centralized: please refer to Linus Torvalds' example. This is what I mean when I say we need people here who have a vision, an outlook visible and that can be shared by everybody or most of us.
That's why I put Satoshi on the spot: I think he had that.

It's not just difficult time for bitcoin but the whole crypto scene.

If Blockstream comes out with a victory in January then we can pretty much wave good bye to the idea that decentralized crypto currencies are anti-fragile.

Yes I agree with this as well. This worries me a lot.

I am sure OP is too much Depressed on Bitcoin's Present scenario , and he as a old Member Over Here should Be.
I don't Know if I should Say this Or not But As women's have Periods over regular interval of time , same is happening with Bitcoin(Because of lack of Better word I used this analogy) , i will not Talk of Much Past but Yeah you can see the Previous Year also it happened the same , nearly this time of year the Price was Down to depth , though the reasons were not same.
As a Optimistic and enthusiastic person in Bitcoin i would say if bitcoin need to survive then it should not be much affected. All as person we can do is to keep our hope in Bitcoin as its the mother Currency of Ours and let keep go all stuffs and "Altcoins"(as called by Theymos).

I will still keep BITCOINS even if its price is 1BTC = 1$.


I would not say depressed, I would say concerned. Yes, if that's the case I am really concerned. Because I see we're going down when people don't want to recognize it.
Sorry man, but hope it's never enough. This is not about hope.
 Wink

We always had leaders in Bitcoin. Saying something else is just romantic BS.
The current problem is: We don't agree on who our leader is.

Decentralization/consensus is a nice wet dream, but in the end it just can't work.
Say we need 90% of the mining power to make a change: That means a charismatic leader, who influences 11% of the mining network, can block every change.


That's the whole point in my humble opinion: I supposed that we did not need any of this crap since BTC was "backed by mathematics"
But we have people here who want to play with mathematics.
And eventually we might end up like the crappy Wall Street world: when they started to play with mathematics introducing the latest high tech finance we all know where we went.


By the way, thanks to who replied: this always helps to shed some light on the matter.
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August 24, 2015, 02:23:17 PM
 #14


We always had leaders in Bitcoin. Saying something else is just romantic BS.
The current problem is: We don't agree on who our leader is.

Decentralization/consensus is a nice wet dream, but in the end it just can't work.
Say we need 90% of the mining power to make a change: That means a charismatic leader, who influences 11% of the mining network, can block every change.


That's the whole point in my humble opinion: I supposed that we did not need any of this crap since BTC was "backed by mathematics"
But we have people here who want to play with mathematics.
And eventually we might end up like the crappy Wall Street world: when they started to play with mathematics introducing the latest high tech finance we all know where we went.


By the way, thanks to who replied: this always helps to shed some light on the matter.

This whole "backed by mathematics"-business is also just romantic BS.
It's obvious, that with technology like Bitcoin, which could be a real game changer, that there will be political decisions, eventually.
And you just can't solve a political question with mathematics.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
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August 24, 2015, 02:37:38 PM
 #15


We always had leaders in Bitcoin. Saying something else is just romantic BS.
The current problem is: We don't agree on who our leader is.

Decentralization/consensus is a nice wet dream, but in the end it just can't work.
Say we need 90% of the mining power to make a change: That means a charismatic leader, who influences 11% of the mining network, can block every change.


That's the whole point in my humble opinion: I supposed that we did not need any of this crap since BTC was "backed by mathematics"
But we have people here who want to play with mathematics.
And eventually we might end up like the crappy Wall Street world: when they started to play with mathematics introducing the latest high tech finance we all know where we went.


By the way, thanks to who replied: this always helps to shed some light on the matter.

This whole "backed by mathematics"-business is also just romantic BS.
It's obvious, that with technology like Bitcoin, which could be a real game changer, that there will be political decisions, eventually.
And you just can't solve a political question with mathematics.

Political questions (eg: settlement layer vs payment system) has to be decided by the ecosystem.

Blockstream and cronies just thrown a wrench in the system, trying to suppress freedom of information and choice.
acquafredda
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August 24, 2015, 02:54:20 PM
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If we really are backed by mathematics then the ecosystem should work on its own and the political decisions should be reduced to the bare minimum.
I made my point, I wanted to see what other think of all of this.

Daniel91
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August 24, 2015, 03:01:33 PM
 #17


We always had leaders in Bitcoin. Saying something else is just romantic BS.
The current problem is: We don't agree on who our leader is.

Decentralization/consensus is a nice wet dream, but in the end it just can't work.
Say we need 90% of the mining power to make a change: That means a charismatic leader, who influences 11% of the mining network, can block every change.


That's the whole point in my humble opinion: I supposed that we did not need any of this crap since BTC was "backed by mathematics"
But we have people here who want to play with mathematics.
And eventually we might end up like the crappy Wall Street world: when they started to play with mathematics introducing the latest high tech finance we all know where we went.


By the way, thanks to who replied: this always helps to shed some light on the matter.

This whole "backed by mathematics"-business is also just romantic BS.
It's obvious, that with technology like Bitcoin, which could be a real game changer, that there will be political decisions, eventually.
And you just can't solve a political question with mathematics.

Yes, you are right and I'm concerned about it.
Whenever politicians are involved in something, nothing good comes out of it Smiley
Politicians generally protect the interests of their financiers, banks and industrialists, and have no reason to protect bitcoin or officially accept it.
It is unlikely that large banks ever accept bitcoin officially because they know that it ruins their business in the long run.
This is sad reality currently.


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August 24, 2015, 03:33:44 PM
 #18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds

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August 24, 2015, 03:35:44 PM
 #19

Honestly, the thought of Hitler ran through my mind during the entirety of your post.

I love the enthusiasm, but Bitcoin tends to favor decentralization.

I did not call for a dictator. I called for a leader. That's very different.
 Wink
Difficulty is a measure of how difficult it is to find
a hash below a given target.
The Bitcoin network has a global block difficulty.
Valid blocks must have a hash below this target.
Mining pools also have a pool-specific share
difficulty setting a lower limit for shares.

Honestly, I did not get your random reply...

Techically Bitcoin is decentralized but its price is controlled by speculators which is also early adopters. If no one use Bitcoin anymore who do they sell their Bitcoins? Reaching a consensus will happen indisputably at the end.
Bitcoin saw other hard times and this experiment is still going on. I don't see a dangerous situation right now.

I don't see it either but I see it, as I said as the most difficult BTC time.
I'm not sure if a consensus is that easy though.
A leader would be a good thing because the current community is so lost and jumps to beliefs without any fact it is no better than an uneducated mass. Also the other user posting about difficulty didn't read your post and just posted probably for sig camp.
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