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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 135950 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
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July 30, 2012, 07:59:06 PM
Last edit: July 30, 2012, 08:22:32 PM by Phinnaeus Gage
 #581

Does Patrick A Murck have a twin brother named William who also practices law at the same DC address? That would be so nifty is he does.

~Bruno~
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July 30, 2012, 08:26:07 PM
 #582


Sorry, I still don't get under what authority is Patrick Murck allowed to receive, possess and transfer stolen goods? There must be some sort of judicial process which results in the granting of a warrant to do so? Please Patrick Murck, lets have all the facts and proof.


It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.  Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.

As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 30, 2012, 08:27:39 PM
 #583

It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.  Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.

As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.

Patrick is probably getting paid for "helping" us, and each time he comes to the forum to answer questions, he bills for his time.  He'll take his fees out of the balance the users get.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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July 30, 2012, 08:29:56 PM
 #584

It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.  Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.

As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.

Patrick is probably getting paid for "helping" us, and each time he comes to the forum to answer questions, he bills for his time.  He'll take his fees out of the balance the users get.

Can a lawyer do that when located in a state where he doesn't practice law?

~Bruno~
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July 30, 2012, 08:31:52 PM
 #585

It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.  Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.

As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.

Patrick is probably getting paid for "helping" us, and each time he comes to the forum to answer questions, he bills for his time.  He'll take his fees out of the balance the users get.

It's a trivial matter to ask those who've retained him in this matter whether they intend to absorb the cost of his fees relating to this issue.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 30, 2012, 08:42:16 PM
 #586


Thank you for that link. I filed a complaint on Bitcoinica LP's business practices @ FSPR Compliance <compliance@fspr.govt.nz>.
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July 30, 2012, 09:13:06 PM
 #587

Especially the part,

Quote
he found that for about $130 and a small amount of online paperwork, he could set up a shell company in New Zealand without stepping foot in the country or having any financial presence.

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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July 30, 2012, 09:18:46 PM
 #588

Especially the part,

Quote
he found that for about $130 and a small amount of online paperwork, he could set up a shell company in New Zealand without stepping foot in the country or having any financial presence.

You should listen to the latest NPR planet money podcast:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/07/27/157499893/episode-390-we-set-up-an-offshore-company-in-a-tax-haven
Yankee (BitInstant)
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July 30, 2012, 09:19:15 PM
 #589

It's unlikely that there's going to be an issue regarding him receiving or holding the funds in trust.  Where an issue potentially arises is the transferring of the funds to someone else and I'm sure that Patrick's going to do everything possible to protect himself from any potential liability in that respect.

As an interesting side note, if a NZ entity becomes insolvent and a creditor helps secure assets or uncover hidden ones, the creditor's costs associated with securing those assets become a preferential debt.

Patrick is probably getting paid for "helping" us, and each time he comes to the forum to answer questions, he bills for his time.  He'll take his fees out of the balance the users get.

It's a trivial matter to ask those who've retained him in this matter whether they intend to absorb the cost of his fees relating to this issue.

Patrick Murck will not be taking fee's from the balance of the funds recovered. His fee's are paid for.

He will be making a statement soon, but the funds are safe. He has a good team of lawyers in the gamification and virtual currency space and knows the legalities well.

The claims process needs to get done much faster

-Charlie

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July 30, 2012, 09:32:15 PM
 #590


The claims process needs to get done much faster

-Charlie


I don't disagree with you regarding this but I don't think the claims processing can be legitimately restarted until all of the promised funds have been returned by Chen.  If Bitcoinica starts paying people pro-rata today based on what's been promised and then those funds are not recovered, they will not be in a position to treat all creditors equally and that will create yet another legal shitstorm. 

They could pay a percentage based on funds on hand right now and then make further payments as additional funds become available, but it's not an efficient way to handle the process and every extra step introduces more possibility of additional fuck ups.

I would feel differently if those who want Bitcoinica to restart the payment process before all of the promised funds have been delivered by Chen were undertaking to pay any short-fall themselves in the event that Chen returns only part of what's been promised.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
kiba
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July 30, 2012, 09:35:30 PM
 #591

Can somebody give me a TL;DR situation on this whole Patrick thing?

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July 30, 2012, 09:36:32 PM
 #592

A update needs to be done ASAP, last update was 2012-06-17, in legal terms this is negligence.  

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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July 30, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
 #593


The claims process needs to get done much faster

-Charlie


I don't disagree with you regarding this but I don't think the claims processing can be legitimately restarted until all of the promised funds have been returned by Chen.


Your right, but I have no involvement with that. Has anyone gone after this guy?

Zhou or Chen...someone's gotta pay up 

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July 30, 2012, 10:39:57 PM
 #594

The worst case scenario would be if they start making proportional payments to the largest depositors based on assets they believe they currently hold only to discover they no longer hold those assets. For example, imagine if they calculated they could make 85% payouts prior to this last theft and started making those payouts. Then they discover the theft and no longer have enough funds to make 85% payouts. Then what?

On the flip side, the longer they hold the money, the less chance there will be any left to distributed.

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July 30, 2012, 11:19:10 PM
 #595

I would like to thank roger from memorydealer, patrick & the exchanges as well as all the others helping in the process and the honnest people trying to gather information here and there.

You guys have helped me sleep better these last few days, and I imagine the other creditors as well. Needless to say I am 100% supporting any action trying to go forward.

I have 5021 btc in claim and lets say that I have been more than disapointed by the bitcoinica management from intersango. I am not saying more because attacks are useless but you can imagine how I feel about them.
I am still unsure about Zhou so I'll left this at it...

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July 31, 2012, 12:07:11 AM
 #596

Quote from: zhoutong
Also any official/legal correspondence can be mailed to:

po.box.zhoutong.com
PO Box 465
Carlton South VIC 3053
Australia

(Yes, please address it with "po.box.zhoutong.com" instead of my name.)

Quote
Our Services:

We redirect: Postal Mail, Packages, Courier Shipments, Voicemail, Fax & E-mail, and GUARANTEE a totally anonymous and confidential service.

Our clients consist of a wide range of businesses & people including: Internet Business Owners, Offshore Corporations, Business Executives, Tourists, Backpackers, Yachties, Military Personnel, Celebrities, Debtors, MLM'ers & Affiliates, etc.

Your own Australian PO Box & Street Mail Forwarding Address (and Virtual Office Service) ... all with Complete Confidentiality.

Our "Moneyback Guarantee" provides you with complete security
and peace of mind.

Simply click Offshore PO Box & International Mail Forwarding Service for further information, and don't forget to check our TESTIMONIALS.
Private Australian Mail Forwarding Address
Forwarding & Redirection
Email Forwarding
Fax & Voice-mail Forwarding
A Street & PO Box Address
Free Anonymous E-mail Address and Forwarding
Virtual Office Service
http://www.pobox.iwarp.com/

Is this a legitimate service?

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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July 31, 2012, 12:14:24 AM
 #597

All,

I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.

So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.

There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.

Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.

Thank you for your patience,
Patrick
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July 31, 2012, 12:37:12 AM
 #598

The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage.
Patrick

This type of GCold storage?


I hope this turns out to be a good thing for the investors. What percentage do you expect will be restored and how much involvement will Intersango have in the process?

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
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July 31, 2012, 02:26:34 AM
 #599

As promised here are details of the transaction: http://blockchain.info/address/1LH6Q1ZXvdQepz8hfQd7kx6XHrggz1VkzD.
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July 31, 2012, 03:08:20 AM
 #600

All,

I know you would all like more frequent updates. I am doing my best to keep people informed while also maintaining confidences and frankly finding time to post.

So it's clear, my first priority is to help get funds distributed back to claimants in a fast, fair and orderly process. Unfortunately, there are some things that need to be addressed and processes followed to make that happen. These things take time and effort, so if you feel that I'm not keeping people in the loop it's probably because I'm spending my time aggressively pursuing the objective stated above.

There will be more news to announce soon. Things are happening and getting resolved. I'm sure everyone here can appreciate that this is a complex matter and it's not going to happen overnight.

Additionally, so there isn't any confusion or misunderstanding. The funds that have been most recently recovered are being moved to a safer form of cold storage. I will post details of the transaction here shortly.

Thank you for your patience,
Patrick

How much do you understand about bitcoin? Are you briefed on how to store it properly? I hope you don't forget the password or something

No offense to you, but if Tihan managed to screw it up by storing bitcoin in a hot wallet, then I am going to be skeptical of anybody who's holding money.

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