Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack

[JoelKatz]

Only guilty people fear the law.

I will bet you that everyone involved in this fiasco has at least arguably broken at least one law. Heck, the average American commits three felonies a day, and nobody is really sure how to run a Bitcoin exchange 100% legally.

[1713507728]

1713507728

[1713507728]

1713507728

[1713507728]

1713507728

[1713507728]

1713507728

[zhoutong]

Only guilty people fear the law.

I will bet you that everyone involved in this fiasco has at least arguably broken at least one law. Heck, the average American commits three felonies a day, and nobody is really sure how to run a Bitcoin exchange 100% legally.

I guess this is a major reason that no one has filed a police report yet. The police is likely to question the legality of the exchange itself.

Singapore has one of the least strict financial laws in the world and Bitcoinica has not meet the minimum amount for compulsory licensing of a stored value facility operator (only companies holding over S$20m need license), so holding money is fine. For exchange activities, it depends on whether Bitcoin is considered as a commodity or currency. Both Mt. Gox and Bitcoinica specifically define Bitcoin as a virtual commodity. The commodity market operator in Singapore has a much lower qualifying criteria than other financial products. If it's commodity then it's not a big problem either. For money transfer activities, almost everyone can easily operate a money changer or remittance service provider in Singapore with minimal capital.

Also, Singapore doesn't declare any currency as "illegal". It's legal to use any currency other than Singapore Dollar provided both parties agree to (i.e. you can't refuse accepting Singapore Dollar in Singapore).

I have carefully analyzed Singapore financial laws concerning Bitcoinica's operation, and even though I can't say it's completely legal (because I'm not a lawyer anyway), it shouldn't break the laws seriously.

I'm not sure about Bitcoinica's 2nd stage of operation in New Zealand though. The dispute resolution scheme has been a debate point.

[JoelKatz]

I guess this is a major reason that no one has filed a police report yet. The police is likely to question the legality of the exchange itself.

That's a really depressing thought.

I have carefully analyzed Singapore financial laws concerning Bitcoinica's operation, and even though I can't say it's completely legal (because I'm not a lawyer anyway), it shouldn't break the laws seriously.

One big issue is laws in other countries. For example, the United States could probably find at least three Federal laws you'd be violating, and the United States is not shy about pursuing foreign businesses. They'll argue that by accepting United States dollars from people located inside the United States, you are intentionally targeting your service at the United States. I'm sure there are other countries that would try this as well. Heck, the United States continues to pursue executives of overseas web-based Poker sites even though they aren't violating any US law.

I always hear that there's no reward without risk, and I agree with that sentiment. But I didn't really factor into that equation that problem that if you fear you might not be fully legal, that restricts your ability to use governments when you need them.

[ninjarobot]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

Look at the date. It is possible Zhou used these BTC already as part of his earlier 5000 BTC donation. However if the funds are coming from Chen Jianhai and he is really a multi-millionaire he should have no troubles compensating for the laundering & mixing fees etc. Maybe he can even sell a relic or two?

[Shuai]

please make all the information about chen jianhai public as soon as all the money is out of his hands. Especially any personal information such as home address or business addresses. Also all your correspondances with him, especially emails where he incriminates himself. Any chance you recorded any of your conversations with him? If not make sure you do it from now on, and make sure you get a recorded "confession" (if needed try to trick him to go through exactly how he stole the money).

[tbcoin]

Reviewing the threads every time I see more people who do not remember seeing in the original thread and do not seem to have any relationship with bitcoinica, but should they attack, judge and comment on the interests of others that we have frozen funds in bitcoinica.

It would be appreciated less fuel to the fire, if you're not part of the solution, you are only a problem.

I trust in Zhou and that all this can come to good causes, if allowed.

[check_status]

Transaction ID: b87922d693b3d3b66da385592a07147cf0b8f31f78057ebb212eb60745b58cf9

so let us start tracking! is there a tool which illustrate the money flow?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31662.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46297.0

You will need some programming skills to sift the dump.

[zhoutong]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall if Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

[Maria]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall is Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

We have noticed  that it is much more effective when you target friends and family. Xavier is not going to be happy with you Zhou. This is my FINAL WARNING. Send to: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj

Maria. 17,000 BTC

[IIOII]

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall if Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

Poor guy. 

[zhoutong]

please make all the information about chen jianhai public as soon as all the money is out of his hands. Especially any personal information such as home address or business addresses. Also all your correspondances with him, especially emails where he incriminates himself. Any chance you recorded any of your conversations with him? If not make sure you do it from now on, and make sure you get a recorded "confession" (if needed try to trick him to go through exactly how he stole the money).

I'll definitely co-operate with any police investigation by providing such information. However releasing the information in public isn't a good choice.

Even though as a community we can determine Chen Jianhai to be the hacker, he hasn't been proven guilty legally yet. That will only happen when he faces a criminal charge.

Also consider the irrationality of some community members I should refrain from posting anything that can potentially induce violence and personal attacks. It won't be good for Bitcoin's image and legal status (if you concern about it at all). I'll have to take into account my personal security as well.

I have his real information only because we were working on a legitimate business. He was introduced to me by a friend who works in a Shenzhen-based information security company (which does penetration tests for large corporations and government agencies). I have never considered Chen Jianhai as a "friend".

[zhoutong]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall is Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

We have noticed  that it is much more effective when you target friends and family. Xavier is not going to be happy with you Zhou. This is my FINAL WARNING. Send to: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj

Maria. 17,000 BTC

LOL. A true friend believes in your integrity and supports you even when others don't. He knows my situation well enough that he can completely make his own judgement.

Also, you have never been "effective" in scamming me, where does the "more" come from?

EDIT:

I have cried twice in phone calls with a friend (not Xavier btw), because of the pressure from this community. I told him everything and I was highly motivated to continue with my life. I almost wanted to grab the money from Chen Jianhai and run away, but he told me not to.

[kokjo]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall is Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

We have noticed  that it is much more effective when you target friends and family. Xavier is not going to be happy with you Zhou. This is my FINAL WARNING. Send to: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj

Maria. 17,000 BTC

shut up bitch! nobody is affariad of you, you have said the words FINAL WARNING more then 100 times on this forum, you are a liar, a scammer, and not really entertaining anymore. go back to your kitchen.

btw. you own me 5 btc.

[IIOII]

Also consider the irrationality of some community members I should refrain from posting anything that can potentially induce violence and personal attacks. It won't be good for Bitcoin's image and legal status (if you concern about it at all). I'll have to take into account my personal security as well.

Some valuable insight at last...

[Matthew N. Wright]

btw. you own me 5 btc.

I'll take it! Where do I send the 5BTC?

[vampire]

I'll definitely co-operate with any police investigation by providing such information. However releasing the information in public isn't a good choice.

Even though as a community we can determine Chen Jianhai to be the hacker, he hasn't been proven guilty legally yet. That will only happen when he faces a criminal charge.

Also consider the irrationality of some community members I should refrain from posting anything that can potentially induce violence and personal attacks. It won't be good for Bitcoin's image and legal status (if you concern about it at all). I'll have to take into account my personal security as well.

I have his real information only because we were working on a legitimate business. He was introduced to me by a friend who works in a Shenzhen-based information security company (which does penetration tests for large corporations and government agencies). I have never considered Chen Jianhai as a "friend".

So who's this new friend, does he have a name and a phone number?

edit: typo

[zhoutong]

After Patrick Murck or his clients confirm the receipt of the funds, I will be working on getting the fiat part from Chen Jianhai.

It appears that he stored the vast majority of the money in his offshore bank account in Isle of Man (not Jersey, I correct myself here). It should be with Barclays International. He converted some Liberty Reserve dollars to Chinese Yuan and I can get it through Alipay, and I'll simply pay that part off with my own USD savings. (I can deal with the currency controls later. My family has 5 people, and each person can access up to US$50,000 worth of foreign exchange transactions every year.)

Also he is holding some euros due to the exchange he was using didn't have enough reserves for USD. Anyway I have access to "interbank rates" so it shouldn't be a problem as well. Considering the rising EUR/USD the USD value can be a little bit more.

I assure that I won't keep a single cent from any funds transferred to me. Also I authorize AurumXchange to send the funds directly to Patrick Murck (after he provides the bank account details) so that there will be less hassle in handling large amounts of fiat money.

[zhoutong]

I'll definitely co-operate with any police investigation by providing such information. However releasing the information in public isn't a good choice.

Even though as a community we can determine Chen Jianhai to be the hacker, he hasn't been proven guilty legally yet. That will only happen when he faces a criminal charge.

Also consider the irrationality of some community members I should refrain from posting anything that can potentially induce violence and personal attacks. It won't be good for Bitcoin's image and legal status (if you concern about it at all). I'll have to take into account my personal security as well.

I have his real information only because we were working on a legitimate business. He was introduced to me by a friend who works in a Shenzhen-based information security company (which does penetration tests for large corporations and government agencies). I have never considered Chen Jianhai as a "friend".

So who's this new friend, does he have a name and a phone number?

edit: typo

He is definitely unrelated with the theft. It's a basic ethical requirement for a professional security specialist to responsibly disclose vulnerabilities and not to take advantage of them.

At this point I consider his information to be irrelevant from our investigation. I was just telling you how I knew Chen Jianhai. I didn't meet him in some scammers' QQ group.

[BitcoinBug]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall is Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

We have noticed  that it is much more effective when you target friends and family. Xavier is not going to be happy with you Zhou. This is my FINAL WARNING. Send to: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj

Maria. 17,000 BTC

LOL. A true friend believes in your integrity and supports you even when others don't. He knows my situation well enough that he can completely make his own judgement.

Also, you have never been "effective" in scamming me, where does the "more" come from?

EDIT:

I have cried twice in phone calls with a friend (not Xavier btw), because of the pressure from this community. I told him everything and I was highly motivated to continue with my life. I almost wanted to grab the money from Chen Jianhai and run away, but he told me not to.

Thinking is not the same as doing, but it still tells a lot. I hope the "he is clearly innocent" posts authors will keep this in mind. I can't say you stole it, but so far it's still the most reasonable explanation, IMO. Kudos for returning the money though.

[zhoutong]

I'm trying to squeeze funds to see if I can compensate more personally, but I'm not in a very good financial condition. If NameTerrific is profitable in the future, I will be happy to contribute more personal funds to help Bitcoinica customers.

Look at this liar!

I have heavily invested in Bitcoin (I purchased one 1,000 BTC gold coin from Casascius and will keep it for as long as I can).

1,000 BTC is definitely not enough to compensate the shortfall is Bitcoinica still insolvent. Also it won't make my financial condition any better. My tuition fees are A$30,000 per year. By my estimation I won't be able to survive without any income until mid-2013.

Also I planned to invest majority of my bank savings into Australian shares (Telstra is climbing... :-( ), and it seems that this plan has to be pulled off as well. (I made the plan when I received about $10,000 from Bitcoinica every month. The salary lasted for only 2 months.)

We have noticed  that it is much more effective when you target friends and family. Xavier is not going to be happy with you Zhou. This is my FINAL WARNING. Send to: 1HJc5VLMpFCQJg2maP9wGuCo3NAgwaCJQj

Maria. 17,000 BTC

LOL. A true friend believes in your integrity and supports you even when others don't. He knows my situation well enough that he can completely make his own judgement.

Also, you have never been "effective" in scamming me, where does the "more" come from?

EDIT:

I have cried twice in phone calls with a friend (not Xavier btw), because of the pressure from this community. I told him everything and I was highly motivated to continue with my life. I almost wanted to grab the money from Chen Jianhai and run away, but he told me not to.

Thinking is not the same as doing, but it still tells a lot. I hope the "he is clearly innocent" posts authors will keep this in mind. I can't say you stole it, but so far it's still the most reasonable explanation, IMO. Kudos for returning the money though.

Yes I agree. I'm not sure how others will react in similar situations. My only feeling at that time was like:

"The community is so unfair, and they assumed I'm the thief. I should probably get the money so that the unnecessary pain and psychological insecurity can be compensated for."

The problem can be quite philosophical, but I can imagine a thought experiment:

If the society punishes a thief in extreme ways, will the thief actually "deserve" what he has obtained?
If the person is actually innocent, will he be determined to become a thief to get compensation?

I have heard a story:

A kindergarten started charging a fine for parents who are late for picking up their children, in a hope that these parents will have a disincentive to arrive late in the future. However, after a while, the kindergarten discovered that the number of parents who are late everyday becomes even higher.

A psychologist has analyzed that these parents feel less guilty when they face a fine, because they believed that they had already paid for their mistakes, and they can continue making such mistakes as long as the fines are affordable.

So intuitively I feel that the more the community criticizes me, the more I deserve to actually take possession of the funds and run away (because they penalized me like I did steal the funds, and I didn't). Please don't take these words at face value. I'm just discovering what I'm actually thinking and feeling.