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Author Topic: "Transaction fees need to be $10+ in order for Bitcoin to survive"  (Read 2633 times)
jabo38
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February 18, 2015, 03:55:12 PM
 #21

...
Down the road I would like to see Bitcoin to be something that people support voluntarily, not expecting any rewards. If you're involved in a Bitcoin business you set up enough full nodes to give back to the network, you do it because you want to, not because there is money to be made there. Same goes for people who want to run a node in their garage to actually support the network.

Just my 2c.

All we know the money part is necessary in the bitcoin blockchain, but maybe you are right : people see only  FIAT money, nothing else. I want to see what will happen after the next halving ( 25 BTC >> 12.5 BTC) will the miner stop , or will the price rise

If the bitcoin revolution/experiment will fail, the blockchain will stay for sure.

I think the network can pretty easily survive a couple of block halvings.  If the price of Bitcoins goes up a lot, then even 6 BTC per block would be fine I guess, but after that I am not sure.  I would like to see somebody crunch numbers to see just how much hash and nodes a network with x amount of transactions can get by with.   

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The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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AgentofCoin
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February 18, 2015, 05:29:23 PM
 #22

To the OP, what is the end game after all the Bitcoins are distributed?  You state that block rewards are meant to be a form of distribution, and they are that, but not limited to just that.  They are also a reward for miners to cover their expenses.  And right now they have A LOT of expenses.  It works out to at least $3 a transaction. 

Here is how to figure it out.  The most efficient mining operation in China is producing bitcoins at $80 a piece.  Lots others are of course have to spend far more than that to get a Bitcoin but lets assume the best case scenario that miners are willing to mine for $80 a coin. 

Each day there are how many Bitcoins produced?  lets see......  6 blocks per hour times 24 hours = 144 blocks times 25 coins per block = 3600 per day

Now the most efficient and best miners need at least $80 per Bitcoin to keep the doors open.  So 3600 x $80 is $288,000 per day.  Now on a very good day (again best case scenario) we will have 100,000 transactions per day.  That means the price of each transaction being paid to miners is at least at a bare minimum $2.88.  In reality that number is actually much higher than that.  That is where the $10 figure comes from. 

Now someday there will be no block reward at all.  Who then is going to pay the miners their standard $2.88 - $10 fee?  One would assume at that point the only place it could come from is the users paying fees. 

So therefore at some point in the halving of blocks game we reach a turning point.  That is the point where block subsidies no longer cover the price for all those hashes.  Again this is inevitable because sooner later the block reward is 0.  And even by the 10th block halving it is under 1 Bitcoin per block. So if the miners don't get their cash then they shut down their hashers and the network dies.  We all know that miners are selfish and are there for the profit.  Take away their reward and they leave. 

 

Where is your explanation and theory about BTC to Fiat price increasing over time?
The Halvings will have an effect of making BTC more rare, thus price should increase to compensate.
When price increases, this "problem" will not exist. When there are no more "rewards" (which is an incorrect term), tx fees will be mandated.
And if the price doesn't increase atleast 100% in the next four years, then Bitcoin has big problems.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
GigaBit
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February 18, 2015, 08:08:41 PM
 #23

What most tend to forget is that Satoshi Nakamoto gave us a model.

After all, the first car builders are no longer in business today.

Don't mean that the original idea hasn't been refined through the generations by others.

Once Bitcoin has seized mining, many will still likely mine it but other coins will pick up in value to pick up where Bitcoin couldn't go.

Bitcoin isn't the entire crypto market, it's one general for currency for the crypto market.

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sakira
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February 19, 2015, 05:49:38 AM
 #24

If I had to pay $10 per bitcoin transaction just to feed some fat chums wallet because he spent all his money on mining rigs, I'll ditch the network. Stupid fat greedy man.

if the cost price of $10, I will make an online wallet Smiley

and I would be rich haha
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February 19, 2015, 06:08:38 AM
 #25

One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol
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February 19, 2015, 06:16:07 AM
 #26

One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

Yeah, at $10, an actual altcoin may have a legit chance to steal some of the marketshare from BTC.
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February 19, 2015, 06:26:47 AM
 #27

One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

I am living in Asia. My bank charges me $0.05 whenever I transfer money to someone else's account. A TX fee of $10 is almost 200 times that amount. No one will be using BTC if something like that happens.
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February 19, 2015, 06:52:19 AM
 #28

If I remember correctly Friedcat from Asicminer made a brief analysis about cost per transaction and what would be needed for Bitcoin to survive after the next halving.
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February 19, 2015, 06:53:31 AM
 #29

THE DIFFICULTY WILL ADJUST IF THERE ARE LESS MINERS MINING. IT MAY TAKE A WHILE TO HIT A NEW DIFFICULTY BUT IT WILL FALL IF PEOPLE STOP MINING DUE TO NO BLOCK REWARD WHICH LEAVES MORE BTC FOR THOSE WHO ARE MINING.
bryant.coleman
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February 19, 2015, 06:57:17 AM
 #30

If I remember correctly Friedcat from Asicminer made a brief analysis about cost per transaction and what would be needed for Bitcoin to survive after the next halving.

Friedcat wanted to increase the TX fee in 2013. Never got much support. Check this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1fxkct/friedcat_transaction_fees_must_be_15_btc_by_next/

But I have great respect for the guy, after this incident:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lb5my/asicminer_refunds_the_accidental_200_btc/
redsn0w
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February 19, 2015, 10:00:05 AM
 #31

One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

I am living in Asia. My bank charges me $0.05 whenever I transfer money to someone else's account. A TX fee of $10 is almost 200 times that amount. No one will be using BTC if something like that happens.

You are lucky, I know there are some banks charge 4-5 dollars for a simple bank transfer. However no one will continue to use bitcoin if the fee will be 10$ per transaction, it would be difficult to accept.
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