I just created 100 pennies.. and loaned them out, you owe me 101 pennies…..

[BtcCookie]

You want to take loan of 100 pennies? Ok the deal is, I'll give you a loan amounting to 100 pennies, but to seal the deal, you will only get 99 pennies but during payback, it's 100 pennies.

Lol, then u make 1 pennie profit.

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[kennyP]

How about I pay you 100 and default on 1

Still trying to find ways to cheat people out of their money you FUCKIN' EMBEZZLER?   

haha smaragda, can't delete this post lol

why you so pissed off at me posting in your simcoin rant thread bro?

how many ignore lists must you be on to be so overwhelmingly ignored? quite incredible

fair observation dude. guy like klee gets hacked and people help him and show sympathy, you get scammed (so you say) and you get BIG RED ANGRY at bystanders because nobody backs you up - why you think nobody support you bro? I've seen you help many people before, and you obviously aren't stupid, so why nobody care for you?

bad karma for your personal style - too much abuse, too much pointless macho antics from behind your PC - learn bro .. be nice ... don't delete posts, otherwise you look like a cry baby lol

[NeuroticFish]

Make a credit card for that kind of pennies.
From that point everybody's "money" will be only entries in a (your!!) database.

Then you can transform their money debts into things with real value: gold, properties, real businesses.

[KawalGrover]

opening a can of worms i see....

I expect by now, 50% of civilized citizen to know how money is just debt....

I don't think that most people understand the implications of that 1 penny scarcity in terms of what it does to people. Debt is that first 100 pennies that needs to be returned but that extra penny is what starts putting injecting fear and desire FOR the money. NOT what that money will get you, but money itself.

If you want to understand why people who are multi-billionaires still want more money, then look at how interest affects desires at a macro level. If you want to understand why 4 million people went homeless when there was enough housing to provide shelter for everyone in the US, then again look at how interest affects our fears.

It's a pretty crazy system and I am so thankful that we have an alternative now. BITCOIN!

[spazzdla]

opening a can of worms i see....

I expect by now, 50% of civilized citizen to know how money is just debt....

Zero chance of this. Most of my friends have zero idea what money is.  If 50% knew we would be in a civil war or all the bankers would be hung.  I'd say more like .5% knows.

[najzenmajsen]

opening a can of worms i see....

I expect by now, 50% of civilized citizen to know how money is just debt....

Zero chance of this. Most of my friends have zero idea what money is.  If 50% knew we would be in a civil war or all the bankers would be hung.  I'd say more like .5% knows.

what this guy is saying , i would have a really hard time beliving 50% knows.

[steveturk]

party B just needs to loan Party A 50pennies for 2% interest

[BitMos]

welcome to the gang of the money printer... it's incredible how the people have been fooled in that... expect cia visit soon... they can't tolerate competition in the girl picking.

[kennyP]

fair observation dude. guy like klee gets hacked and people help him and show sympathy, you get scammed (so you say) and you get BIG RED ANGRY at bystanders because nobody backs you up - why you think nobody support you bro? I've seen you help many people before, and you obviously aren't stupid, so why nobody care for you?

bad karma for your personal style - too much abuse, too much pointless macho antics from behind your PC - learn bro .. be nice ... don't delete posts, otherwise you look like a cry baby lol

Yeah OK...  and...  how exactly does any of this^^^ change the fact that NxtChg is a FUCKIN' EMBEZZLER & that klee is a CONSENTING BALL-SNIPPED COWARDLY-SILENT HYPOCRITICAL Simcoin (SIM) & CryptoPlay (CPS) STAKEHOLDING-PUSSY???  

Cool, a leopard can't change its spots I guess lol

My point doesn't change anything, but it might explain why nobody is backing you up bro. It's probably NOT because they're ball-snipped cowards, more likely many are 'enjoying' your public displays of pain & frustration. Not nice, but probably true, and the reason is you've irritated a lot of people here. Not me though, I think you're OK, but I think I'm in the minority.

In a time of crisis you want/need friends & allies to help you.

[odolvlobo]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

This puzzle is intended to make a point, but it doesn't because the solution is so simple:

1. I return the 100 pennies to you.
2. I buy (or trade for) one penny from you.
3. I give you the one penny interest.

Here is another solution:

1. I loan the 100 pennies back to you + interest.
2. The loans are the same, so we agree to cancel them.


The point the OP is trying to make is that if money is debt, then interest cannot be paid if there is only enough money to repay the loans. According to the OP, the U.S. must go deeper into debt in order for there to be enough money to pay the interest, but that means yet more interest that cannot be paid.

Since all money is backed by debt, there seems to be a problem because if all debt is repaid, then there is no more money (to pay the interest, for example). Of course, there is no real problem (other than having no form of money), as I have pointed out the solutions above.

[BitMos]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

This puzzle is intended to make a point, but it doesn't because the solution is so simple:

1. I return the 100 pennies to you.
2. I buy one penny from you. How there are only 100 penny? you can only loan them
3. I give you the one penny interest.

Here is another solution:

1. I loan the 100 pennies back to you + interest. why would the lender accept such a stupid idea? he didn't win anything, it ain't charity.
2. The loans are the same, so we agree to cancel them.

nice try. but there is no escape, it's evil.

[odolvlobo]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

This puzzle is intended to make a point, but it doesn't because the solution is so simple:

1. I return the 100 pennies to you.
2. I buy one penny from you. How there are only 100 penny? you can only loan them
If you claim that the 100 pennies are the only form of money, then the puzzle is ridiculous because it isn't money when only one person holds it. Either way, I can still trade for it or use some form of money.
3. I give you the one penny interest.

Here is another solution:

1. I loan the 100 pennies back to you + interest. why would the lender accept such a stupid idea? he didn't win anything, it ain't charity.
Maybe he needs the pennies. Maybe the situation has changed making it advantageous to borrow the pennies back. For example, he can use the 100 pennies to gain 2 pennies worth of value and that would be better than the 1 penny he gets from me.
2. The loans are the same, so we agree to cancel them.

nice try. but there is no escape, it's evil.

nice try, but not good enough.

[Erdogan]

The interest is just compensation for the owner postponing his consumption (of the lent out stuff) or for postponing spending the money on consumption or investment.

You can lend out your car for a weekend to a friend, and let him top up the tank as compensation. There is no magic.

The problem of lending money is that the loan gets some money-like features, therefore extends the total amount of money and therefore the value of money, until it is cleared. (Paid back or written off).

You could imagine that if car loaning was easy and abundant, it would also extend the aggregate of car availability, reducing the value of cars.

[dinofelis]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

I first give you back 50 pennies.  I now owe you still 51 pennies.  You spend those 50 pennies back in my place against GOODS AND SERVICES.  Now I have again 100 pennies, I owe you 51 pennies.  I pay them to you.  I still have 49 pennies, and my debt to you has been resolved.

The point is that one shouldn't confuse money quantity and money flux.  A debt implies a money FLUX.  That flux can be paid for with a smaller amount of existing money, on the idea that the money is spend more than once (the velocity of money is greater than 1).

This is what makes interest no more a problem than the production of goods and services.

What actually happened was that you obtained goods and services in return for a money flux.

Indeed, you could turn the false problem in an equivalent story where the idiocy is evident:

Suppose that there are only 100 pennies in circulation, and that there are goods and services sold for more than 100 pennies.  How could these goods and services ever be bought then ?  Won't the limited amount of money stall the economy ?

The answer is in fact the same: the amount of goods and services sold, is sold against money FLUXES.  The total amount of integrated money flux can be larger than the total amount of money in circulation.  The ratio is exactly the "velocity of money".

If there are only 2 pennies in circulation, we can nevertheless exchange 100 eggs (a penny each) against 50 apples (2 pennies each).

Indeed, I have 2 pennies.  I buy an apple from you.  Now you have 2 pennies.  You buy two eggs from me.  Now I have again 2 pennies and an apple, and you have 2 eggs.
Repeat: I buy again an apple from you.  You buy two eggs from me.  I buy an apple from you.  You buy two eggs from me.
Repeat still 47 times.

We have in total sold 100 eggs and 50 apples (worth 200 pennies) with only 2 pennies in circulation.  The velocity of money was 100.

Interest on a loan is paid in exactly the same way.



(the funny thing is that part of Keynesianism is based upon that same idiocy).

[ed_teech]

Money is a form of value. If only 100 pennies are in existence, there is a value captured equal to 100 pennies. By paying the interest you have to make new value or else your money is flawed.

[BitMos]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

This puzzle is intended to make a point, but it doesn't because the solution is so simple:

1. I return the 100 pennies to you.
2. I buy one penny from you. How there are only 100 penny? you can only loan them
If you claim that the 100 pennies are the only form of money, then the puzzle is ridiculous because it isn't money when only one person holds it. Either way, I can still trade for it or use some form of money.
3. I give you the one penny interest.

Here is another solution:

1. I loan the 100 pennies back to you + interest. why would the lender accept such a stupid idea? he didn't win anything, it ain't charity.
Maybe he needs the pennies. Maybe the situation has changed making it advantageous to borrow the pennies back. For example, he can use the 100 pennies to gain 2 pennies worth of value and that would be better than the 1 penny he gets from me.
2. The loans are the same, so we agree to cancel them.

nice try. but there is no escape, it's evil.

nice try, but not good enough.

you don't understand the word legal tender note. btw the poster said there was only 100 pennie. but you can extend it to full money supply + interest, where do come the interest? by the new freshly bills printed to the connected ones (first banks, then their trading parteners, then the rest) meaning that you lower on the chain.

However and I want that to be clear, I know it ain't the best post but he will do, I am sure that the 1000 best hedgies, traders and others mps, would be almost the same on sea shell currency... (a few the losers would be unable to survive, but those don't trade, they just pimp and everyone know who are the real MPs).

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

frankly I understood it as a man on his island, a theoretical question, otherwise with your approach the answer is quite simple : money counterfeiting, expect a raid by the police, so you will never be able to create 100 penny.

[keyscore44]

opening a can of worms i see....

I expect by now, 50% of civilized citizen to know how money is just debt....

Zero chance of this. Most of my friends have zero idea what money is.  If 50% knew we would be in a civil war or all the bankers would be hung.  I'd say more like .5% knows.

Yeah most of my family and friends have barely heard the word fiat, let alone understand it. Much easier to embrace the lie...

[BitMos]

opening a can of worms i see....

I expect by now, 50% of civilized citizen to know how money is just debt....

Zero chance of this. Most of my friends have zero idea what money is.  If 50% knew we would be in a civil war or all the bankers would be hung.  I'd say more like .5% knows.

Yeah most of my family and friends have barely heard the word fiat, let alone understand it. Much easier to embrace the lie...

I know. like ARBEIT MACHT FREI, most believed it. Maybe telling children about a man on the sky (FORBIDDEN BY ISLAM) or the XMAX gift givers, or what ever else, isn't a good idea. Furthermore I think most westerners live still a life where they don't need to ask too much question to survive (food stamp, ebt, social income etc), once it's gone will see... but it will be too late then, like entering the "showers" for cleansing... in a way it's true, rationalization is the worst enemy of honesty... but look for example as the Iraqi in irak1 when powel put them under their tombs, or the ukies now... hubris lies, it can work with your wifes because you can beat her if she doesn't agree... try to beat reality good luck.

[NotLambchop]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

Nice argument against non-inflationary currencies, which Bitcoin is hoping to become.
Let's try your problem, starting with this "sound money":
You have all of the gold in the world, and lend it to me @ .1% yearly interest.
"How is it possible for you me to pay me you etc., etc.?"

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

I just created 100 pennies and I loaned them out to you + interest… How is it possible for you to pay me the 101 pennies you now legally owe me if only 100 pennies are in circulation?

Steal it from someone else. Its a zero sum game (scam) where someone always loses.