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Author Topic: Four Strikes Against Bitcoin  (Read 4098 times)
Bobsurplus
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February 20, 2015, 11:10:45 PM
 #41

The OP's first argument is valid. You dont have a chance of winning the "lotto" unless you have a ticket. And tickets cost money.

Mining rigs cost money, electricity costs money.

Anyway.. A good lawyer can argue for either side of this "bit"coin. In the mean time I'll just keep stacking dough thanks to Bitcoin and the miners whom keep it going.

Viva la miners!

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Mikestang
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February 20, 2015, 11:11:40 PM
 #42

pseudo-legal mumbo jumbo

Cite case and precedent for your claims.

You're trying to be tricky and clever, but little of what you say is "truth".  Nice try.

Everyone saying that buying mining rigs and electricity to mine is the same as buying a lottery ticket to play the lotto, but it's totally and completely different.  When you buy a lottery ticket that money goes to the entity hosting the lottery and the only thing you can do with your purchase is play the lottery.  Carrying that line of thinking over to bitcoin mining is absurd and illogical, and barely even worth commenting on in its stupidity.

If someone has to tell you they're telling the truth, most likely they are not.
slaveforanunnak1
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February 20, 2015, 11:16:11 PM
 #43

US Banks are conducting a lottery under your interpretation of law. They receive interest as a prize for payment processing.

Incorrect.  I agree that banks do receive interest as a fee or "prize" for payment processing.  However, they do not randomly select who gets payment processing and who does not - there is no "chance" selection of customers.  Everybody who submits a request for payment gets equal service.  No element of "chance", no lottery.

The real argument is Consideration.  In legal theory, "Consideration" does not apply since no one is purchasing from the one running this lottery.

Incorrect.  Consideration is not about a "player" (mining) OBTAINING something of value from a "lottery runner" (Bitcoin).  Consideration is about the "lottery runner" (Bitcoin) RECEIVING something of value from the "player" (miner) - namely, the addition of a block to the blockchain from a single miner that it designates as a ten-minute "winner".

Thank you for thinking this through instead of just insulting me.  You will eventually conclude that legally I am right, as uncomfortable as that will be to admit.

ahhaha what a dumb fuck. Dont tell me you actually pass your bar exam. This is why most lawyers are only able to sign documents for money. Rarely they even understand what the fuck the law says, how its created ...


I respect a meth dealer more than a fucking lawyer. I don't have data to back this up, but if you add it all up, my guess would be that more lives were ruined by lawyers.
I can't wait until most of them are jobless like my GF''s uncles who used to be a press operator. Now he works in a supermarket.

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February 20, 2015, 11:21:49 PM
 #44

you have to understand the U.S is not the WORLD. Miners will move out of the US and go elsewhere
stick your head out of your small intestine you scum. (you must be a lawyer)


US law can and does confiscate money generated in violation of its laws elsewhere in the world.  Just ask online poker players.  

Mainstream acceptance of Bitcoin in the US economy (especially by vendors and businesses) will be hamstrung by this fact as it becomes more widely realized.

Every government in the world taxes gaming, which is why there are gaming control laws in the first place.  

Why am I scum for pointing out the law where it is currently being ignored?  Am I scum for pointing out that you cannot legally murder me to shut me up?

Open your mind to things you don't want to hear.  It can be a very educational experience.

you're a scum for thinking just because a law said this or that we should close up shop and take it up the ass.

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mercistheman
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February 21, 2015, 12:44:16 AM
 #45

Oh man, these hacks brought lawyers to our forum?.... just fucking go away... perfect reason why folks choose bitcoin over convoluted govt authority.
Let's see... why would anyone want an alternative to fake money printing and corrupt banks?
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February 21, 2015, 03:59:39 PM
 #46

The four strikes against Bitcoin:

First, Bitcoin mining is illegal. 

I got as far as this then didn't bother reading anymore. Cheesy

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February 21, 2015, 06:16:50 PM
 #47

The four strikes against Bitcoin:

First, Bitcoin mining is illegal. 

I got as far as this then didn't bother reading anymore. Cheesy
Yeah I mean what the fuk. If you are going to criticise bitcoin at least put it some effort ffs..

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February 21, 2015, 06:20:13 PM
 #48

I like the first attack lol !
The four strikes against Bitcoin:

First, Bitcoin mining is illegal.

I got as far as this then didn't bother reading anymore. Cheesy

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February 21, 2015, 07:15:29 PM
 #49

Mining clearly a competitive service not a wager.

So far I haven't seen a convincing rebuttal to the arguments that distributed consensus is Impossible with PoS.

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February 21, 2015, 11:28:30 PM
 #50

i like op's fud post.. specifically the lottery angle.  never thought of it that way.
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February 21, 2015, 11:41:11 PM
 #51

This is clear FUD from the time OP claims mining Bitcoin is an ilegal activity.



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February 21, 2015, 11:45:57 PM
 #52

Everything said in the OP is mostly useless. The only negative things about Bitcoin are: it's volatility, it's lack of regulation, it's name.

Simply put, Bitcoin is decentralized(Mining is not like a lottery), etc etc. (sorry dont have the time to put into creating a deep, long post).

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February 22, 2015, 02:34:36 AM
 #53

If you notice a small box where there is a coin slot for to take your chance to control the claw machine to grab the plush toys, that's illegal too as the chance is practically 1 out if 10.

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February 22, 2015, 02:47:05 AM
 #54

If you notice a small box where there is a coin slot for to take your chance to control the claw machine to grab the plush toys, that's illegal too as the chance is practically 1 out if 10.

If we go by the OP's assumptions, then living life itself is illegal as everyday there's a probability that you might die, and the "ticket" to sustain life is oxygen, your heart, lungs, water, etc. OP is an idiot.

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February 22, 2015, 02:51:32 AM
 #55

Op you are a prophet and a genius. Hold up selling all my bitcoins you beautiful teller of truth.....



NOT
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February 22, 2015, 03:43:28 PM
 #56

If you don't have to pay to get in then it's not a lottery. I suppose you could call it a contest, but there is nothing wagered like a lottery. I doubt any court would find otherwise.

I *really* dont want to side with OP, but is some terms I think he is right. Bitcoin mining does seem more like a lottery or contest in comparison with actual gold mining.

And you DO have yo pay to play. its called electricity. About a month and a half ago I turned off all ten of my 1TH/s miners. It made no sense to mine using electricity when the value of bitcoin was/is dropping. I was "paying to play" and i could not afford it any longer. In some respects its not much different than if you go to a casino to play blackjack and you do well and profit, take a break, come back after lunch to play and you start losing. Are you still gonna play??? Are you still gonna mine?


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February 22, 2015, 03:45:29 PM
 #57


So far the States have yet to speak up on this point of law - Bitcoin as an illegal lottery.  It will not be a good day for Bitcoin when they do.


I think you underestimate the worldwide bitcoin community. China wont stop producing bitcoins. Even if it became illegal to mine BTC in the states, people will still mine as long as its profitable.

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February 22, 2015, 03:48:10 PM
 #58

Thanks for the warning. But I have made a lot of money ignoring warnings like these. You need a better lawyer before giving up so easy.

1. Bitcoin mining is a service not a lottery. Miners work for a living. They are not just scratching off lotto cards. Nor do they pay to play, which is why a lottery is gambling.

2. Bitcoin mining sustains it's self because it can scale up and scale down. It is like gold mining. We know where a lot of gold is that can't be mined because it is unprofitable. If the price goes up, then it will get mined. Same with bitcoin, if it's not profitable then there is too much supply and mining drops off.

3. Your argument is also true of the internet. Unfortunately the universe demands energy for work.

4. I have no interest in weak PoS systems. The market seems to agree.

Bottom line, it is working and continues to grow.

The new score is "Zero strikes against Bitcoin", thanks for the effective summary.

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February 22, 2015, 04:04:52 PM
 #59

"Extensive time and effort" would be a huge stretch to apply it to mining. I have a friend who has mined thousands of BTC working about 1 hour per week.

He spent hundreds / thousands of dollars to  buy that mining gear, and continues to pay significant electricity and bandwidth costs to apply it to mining.  Bitcoin benefits from his presence in its mining network.  This legally constitutes consideration.

I would bet those laws were set up to go after contest scams. Something designed to get cheap labor under the guise of a contest. The thing about bitcoin is that there is no scammer. When you mine you work for yourself and none of your expenses go to bitcoin. They may go to the power company or Dell computers. But that is because you got power and a computer. No victim, no crooked contest business.

Victimless crime is still crime.  Even tho everybody in a basement at an illegal poker game or in an alley throwing dice all agree to be there and accept the outcome of what happens, their activities still get raided by the police.  Why would a Bitcoin mining warehouse warrant an exemption for running its illegal lottery?

depends on how you define crime.  if you mean crime as in whatever the ruling authority says so, then sure.  but IMO, a crime that has no victim is no crime at all according to universal principles of justice.

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February 22, 2015, 04:30:53 PM
 #60

Just a question more , why is bitcoin illegal Huh
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