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Author Topic: Your cryptocoins were stolen and you called the police? WTF? Are you serious?  (Read 6079 times)
Come-from-Beyond
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July 28, 2012, 11:52:36 PM
 #21

OK fine. They are UNREGULATED AND NO LAWS PROTECT FROM THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT.

Is that better?

Much better. Now we understand that our community needs something that would protect us in such cases. This could be (for example) modification of bitcoin algo that let us to revert criminal transactions. It's very tempting to get back the bitcoins stolen from Bitcoinica account.
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July 28, 2012, 11:52:57 PM
 #22

It is not illegal or illicit to barter whatever you want for whatever you want (so long as those things are both legal to possess and sell.) So there's nothing wrong about calling the police if one of these legal items is stolen. They might not care much about virtual Internet currency, but there's nothing saying you can't contact them.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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July 28, 2012, 11:53:57 PM
 #23

While statist entities still exist, people who can identify perpetrators of bitcoin related crimes will continue to seek retribution using this perverse system of old. Nothing can be done about this, but in the history of bitcoin thefts, most have resulted in no police action because of bitcoin's strong anonymity. As bitcoin matures into the mainstream, I suspect these scams will become less commonplace as people's real identities become more tied to their online ones, and hopefully a reputation system emerges to "enforce" contracts in this new bitcoin economy. However, if the state is continually drawn into bitcoin disputes, bitcoin will be outlawed sooner than later. Then it will be driven underground, and only those ideologically committed to the principles that gave birth to bitcoin will continue to support bitcoin. The others will probably resort to some mintchip nonsense.

Keep your politics/ideologies out of my bitcoins.

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.
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July 28, 2012, 11:57:57 PM
 #24

It is not illegal or illicit to barter whatever you want for whatever you want (so long as those things are both legal to possess and sell.) So there's nothing wrong about calling the police if one of these legal items is stolen. They might not care much about virtual Internet currency, but there's nothing saying you can't contact them.

Funny thing is that if u follow advice that let u to stay anonymous then it could be hard to prove that u realy owned some particular bitcoins. So we need something that is integral part of bitcoin's world.
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July 29, 2012, 12:01:08 AM
 #25

While statist entities still exist, people who can identify perpetrators of bitcoin related crimes will continue to seek retribution using this perverse system of old. Nothing can be done about this, but in the history of bitcoin thefts, most have resulted in no police action because of bitcoin's strong anonymity. As bitcoin matures into the mainstream, I suspect these scams will become less commonplace as people's real identities become more tied to their online ones, and hopefully a reputation system emerges to "enforce" contracts in this new bitcoin economy. However, if the state is continually drawn into bitcoin disputes, bitcoin will be outlawed sooner than later. Then it will be driven underground, and only those ideologically committed to the principles that gave birth to bitcoin will continue to support bitcoin. The others will probably resort to some mintchip nonsense.

Keep your politics/ideologies out of my bitcoins.

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

+1000
Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 12:01:48 AM
 #26

Hey cops! Some guy stole my math equations that are worth on the black market xxx usd

Last time I check MtGox and other exchanges aren't black markets.  The fact that Bitcoins (and dollars) can be used for illegal purposes doesn't negate the fact that they have value in legit markets. 

OK fine. They are UNREGULATED AND NO LAWS PROTECT FROM THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT.

Is that better?

Hi bulanula! Welcome back!

You got to be kidding me. All of you saying such barbarities are making me wish someone steals some bitcoins from me so I can go complaint to the police and prove you wrong =/

Matthew N. Wright
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July 29, 2012, 12:04:03 AM
 #27

It was never a hacker's agenda to promote anonymity-- the objective was always transparency. Hacking to unlock the truth, sharing information, shedding light on lies, uncovering the truth, breaking through the anonymity of thieves, liars, political agendas and deception. This "anonymous" obsession is not a noble one and has no part in a functioning society.

Also, "Alexander" only seems to post something right when Atlas is banned. Coincidence?

DeathAndTaxes
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July 29, 2012, 12:05:40 AM
 #28

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

Any evidence that Satoshi or any of the early developers are anarchists?
Any evidence that all the current developers are anarchists?
Any evidence that a majority of current users are anarchists?

Probably not.    How much development of the Bitcoin protocol have you done?
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 12:10:47 AM
 #29

It was never a hacker's agenda to promote anonymity-- the objective was always transparency. Hacking to unlock the truth, sharing information, shedding light on lies, uncovering the truth, breaking through the anonymity of thieves, liars, political agendas and deception. This "anonymous" obsession is not a noble one and has no part in a functioning society.

Also, "Alexander" only seems to post something right when Atlas is banned. Coincidence?

Troll elsewhere? I've noticed that you seem to accuse everyone of being some Atlas impersonator. I've been a member longer than you have. Maybe you're Atlas!

And go read the cyphernomicron. Dispense with your san fran techcrunch "transparency" obsession. Why don't you go develop a facebook app?
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July 29, 2012, 12:13:05 AM
 #30

It is not illegal or illicit to barter whatever you want for whatever you want (so long as those things are both legal to possess and sell.) So there's nothing wrong about calling the police if one of these legal items is stolen. They might not care much about virtual Internet currency, but there's nothing saying you can't contact them.

They mightn't care much about in game items, either, but people have been prosecuted for stealing virtual furniture from Habbo Hotel.

Crypto-anarchists can believe that there's a "right" way to do Bitcoin all they like, but the reality is that crypto-anarchists are not the only - or even the majority of -people using Bitcoin and those who wish to use it as either an alternative currency or a commodity see no reason why Bitcoin thefts shouldn't be treated like the theft of any other item.

Crypto-anarchists can't tell other people how they "should" regard Bitcoin or confine Bitcoin use to those who share their ideology.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 12:16:26 AM
 #31

Bitcoin was created by anarchists and for anarchists. Go read up on the cypherpunks. Read the cyphernomicron. What do you think this is, some left/right san fran techie circlejerk to see who can make the coolest looking mining rig? This is a revolution. The 'politics and ideology' part is unavoidable.

Any evidence that Satoshi or any of the early developers are anarchists?
Any evidence that all the current developers are anarchists?
Any evidence that a majority of current users are anarchists?

Probably not.    How much development of the Bitcoin protocol have you done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunks#Noteworthy_cypherpunks
Bittorrent, peer to peer, wikileaks, *LINUX*,  Piratebay, Tor, Satoshi? I recall Satoshi expressing some libertarian sentiment in some old post of his, but I won't find it for you now. To suggest that bitcoin is not in some way a result of decades of libertarian thought is a gross denial on your part. Hell, the mainstream even  refers to it as some "libertarian dream" akin to those libertarian islands. And I'm sure the majority of users are libertarians, particularly early adopters. The rest are mostly slashdot liberals who think this is a neat idea but have no conception of the implications of bitcoin on society whatsoever. It's like a savage discovering fire and not creating civilization from it.
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 12:19:51 AM
 #32

It is not illegal or illicit to barter whatever you want for whatever you want (so long as those things are both legal to possess and sell.) So there's nothing wrong about calling the police if one of these legal items is stolen. They might not care much about virtual Internet currency, but there's nothing saying you can't contact them.

They mightn't care much about in game items, either, but people have been prosecuted for stealing virtual furniture from Habbo Hotel.

Crypto-anarchists can believe that there's a "right" way to do Bitcoin all they like, but the reality is that crypto-anarchists are not the only - or even the majority of -people using Bitcoin and those who wish to use it as either an alternative currency or a commodity see no reason why Bitcoin thefts shouldn't be treated like the theft of any other item.

Crypto-anarchists can't tell other people how they "should" regard Bitcoin or confine Bitcoin use to those who share their ideology.

The nature of the system compels behavior towards that behavior which can only be described as libertarian. Are you telling me you are going to actually disclose bitcoin holdings/earnings on your tax forms?
Matthew N. Wright
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July 29, 2012, 12:25:56 AM
 #33

Bittorrent
Aids transparency by sharing files.

peer to peer
Aids transparency by sharing files.

wikileaks
Aids transparency by sharing information.

Piratebay
Aids transparency by sharing files.

Tor
Focuses on anonymity.


Transparency is great. Anonymity is for cowards who want to fight wars at the expense of others without any repercussions.

repentance
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July 29, 2012, 12:37:31 AM
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The nature of the system compels behavior towards that behavior which can only be described as libertarian. Are you telling me you are going to actually disclose bitcoin holdings/earnings on your tax forms?

There'd be no reason for me not to declare it - income from a hobby isn't taxable here.  

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 12:38:23 AM
 #35

Bittorrent
Aids transparency by sharing files.

peer to peer
Aids transparency by sharing files.

wikileaks
Aids transparency by sharing information.

Piratebay
Aids transparency by sharing files.

Tor
Focuses on anonymity.


Transparency is great. Anonymity is for cowards who want to fight wars at the expense of others without any repercussions.

Seriously? Do you really not see how anonymity and privacy is the fundamental here, and transparency is merely a derivative consequence? What is transparent about bittorrent? You share files fairly anonymously, and you don't get shut down or sued like Napster. It doesn't create transparency in monolithic institution, unless you count that in with depriving record labels and hollywood producers of revenue. Wikileaks? Leak files...anonymously? So that it can create transparency in monolithic institutions? Like the state? Deprived of revenue by tax-evading anonymous currencies? Using anonymous darknet mediums such as Tor? Equals libertarian anarchism?

Cause and effect.
alexanderanon
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July 29, 2012, 12:39:47 AM
 #36

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/crypto-cat-encryption-for-all/

Anonymous cowards!
redbeans2012
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July 29, 2012, 12:51:21 AM
 #37

This is why a truly free market will never exist.  People make dumb decisions, (ie: leaving 20k bitcoins on bitcoinica) get law enforcement involved cause they are angry, eventually laws happen and round and round we go.

Matthew N. Wright
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July 29, 2012, 12:52:43 AM
 #38

What is transparent about bittorrent?
What is anonymous about it? How many people have been dragged into court rooms despite it's "anonymous nature" you claim?

You share files fairly anonymously, and you don't get shut down or sued like Napster.
200,000 U.S. BitTorrent Users Sued, http://www.tomsguide.com/us/bittorrent-file-sharing-copyright-violation-lawsuit,news-12115.html

Wikileaks? Leak files...anonymously?
Wikileaks is not anonymous. If it were anonymous, why would Asange be wanted by the US? You know you can leak things to -any- reporter in the USA and they can protect your identity as well?

Quote
Using anonymous darknet mediums such as Tor?
https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en

That's who uses tor. It has nothing to do with some noble cause. It's just about hiding yourself. Who needs to hide themselves when everyone knows who everyone is and what they're doing?

When everyone has a gun, there is less fighting. You apparently advocate having hidden guns so that you can empower users of deception and coercion (very non-libertarian).

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July 29, 2012, 12:53:21 AM
 #39

Keep your politics/ideologies out of my bitcoins.
+1


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July 29, 2012, 12:54:49 AM
 #40

Hey cops! Some guy stole my math equations that are worth on the black market xxx usd

Last time I check MtGox and other exchanges aren't black markets.  The fact that Bitcoins (and dollars) can be used for illegal purposes doesn't negate the fact that they have value in legit markets.  
Another +1.

There are some very stupid and uninformed people in this forum it seems =/

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