Best way of initial coin distribution

[Cryddit]

I don't think there really is a reasonable way to have a 100% proof-of-stake coin that's that way from the very beginning.

I've been considering it recently, actually; I think the best I can do is to make a coin with a fixed proof-of-work award that never changes, and then inflation in the form of "interest" awarded for destroyed coin-blocks (coin-days times actual blocks-per-day) in transactions.

So, I'd start off awarding 10 coins per block, or whatever, and keep doing that indefinitely (you might prefer to stop after a couple of years) - and whenever somebody makes a transaction, the miner gets a month's worth of interest and they get the rest for proof-of-stake. 

And the "longest chain" is the longest chain by proof-of-stake and proof-of-work in the same ratio that POS:POW coins have been awarded, so there'd be a very gradual transition to being more and more centered on proof-of-stake as time goes on.

The interest rate would depend on the block rate, of course - but for 10-minute blocks, it would be an "approximately fair" rate of interest to multiply the input by about (1+10^-6)^coin-blocks. 

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[Bobsurplus]

Well, Let's say you've %100 premined 1 mil coin. I would distribute this coin like that;

10% of this coin: IPO
10% of this coin: ICO (x2 price of ip price)
10% of this coin: signature campaign
10% of this coin: twitter/fb shares, followers etc.
10% of this coin: 7 day mining
...

Something like that: which covers all of the methods to distribute coins. For instance: I want to mine then I'll mine it pow mining. I don't power to mine so I'll join sig campaign. I don't want to do anything bu want coins then I'll buy with ipo/ico etc.

Everyone can collect coins how they like.

What are differences between IPO and ICO?

PS: We can't use mining, there is no infrastructure for that, all the coins must be distributed before the genesis block.

Well, basic difference is price.
On ipo: you designate a time let's say it's a week.
You collect funds for a week, let's say it's around 12 BTC for 100k coins.
What's ipo price? 0.00012 btc for each coin.

On ico; you designate the price of the coin. You can say ICO price is 0.00024 btc for 100k coins. Then you can collect 24 BTC for it.


Basically prices are different.

There is no difference.. Its just a different name.

Initial public offering
Initial coin offering.

[Crestington]

I don't think there really is a reasonable way to have a 100% proof-of-stake coin that's that way from the very beginning.

I've been considering it recently, actually; I think the best I can do is to make a coin with a fixed proof-of-work award that never changes, and then inflation in the form of "interest" awarded for destroyed coin-blocks (coin-days times actual blocks-per-day) in transactions.

So, I'd start off awarding 10 coins per block, or whatever, and keep doing that indefinitely (you might prefer to stop after a couple of years) - and whenever somebody makes a transaction, the miner gets a month's worth of interest and they get the rest for proof-of-stake.  

And the "longest chain" is the longest chain by proof-of-stake and proof-of-work in the same ratio that POS:POW coins have been awarded, so there'd be a very gradual transition to being more and more centered on proof-of-stake as time goes on.

The interest rate would depend on the block rate, of course - but for 10-minute blocks, it would be an "approximately fair" rate of interest to multiply the input by about (1+10^-6)^coin-blocks.  

Ok, well I made ColossusCoin2 as POW/POS with fast distribution

2 minute Block time
7 day min age
28 day max age
19.1 Billion mined over the first 10 Blocks
1000 POW Coins a Block for 10,000 Blocks (works out to about 7 million POW Coins)
20 Coin minimum fee paid to miners (POW and POS)
POS reward is 5000 Coins per Block, every Block regardless of Coins Staking

Total amount of new Coins would be about 6% per year

Share of the 6% plus fees of trades would depend on Block sizes, coinage and staking activity (The float may grow at 6% but you might get 30-40% on your Coins). IMO the CLAMS distribution is the best way because you don't even need to take any Coins, you still keep your old Coins but get the new Coins as well.

I am doing an upgrade for ColossusCoin at a 20:1 ratio with 25% of the Coins reserved for the Development Fund and am looking for someone that has some more experience with the CLAMS distribution method through redeemscripts. I have been talking to the CamorraCoin developers but the dev has been absent for 4-5 days so need to find someone else that can help me with it.

You can see the thread here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=941433.0

CV2 is already in the POS only stage and trading on the alcurex exchange.

[Cryddit]

See, I'm of the opinion that the "fast distribution" thing is lame, and ultimately leads to the collapse of the cryptocurrencies that do it.

If the creation of coins in the beginning is more per block than, say, one and a half times what it is a year into the issue, you're doing it too fast.  In fact the economics would make more sense if the distribution per block a year out was slightly *more* than the distribution in the first few blocks, giving a very mild constant but permanent rate of currency supply inflation.

I think a lot of these altcoins fail because the distribution is way too fast and way too front-loaded. The resulting economic model whether for use as an investment or a currency is just plain broken. 

The only sensible way to interpret a coin where the early miners/early investors get way more than anybody else is as a ponzi game where the early investors are looking to make money on fools who come along later or hold on for longer.  The point is that Ponzis always collapse, and any sensible person can see that it's going to collapse (even if most of them can't figure out exactly when) so keeping it as an investment is just plain dumb and using it for spending money is a continual search for the greater fool who will accept it believing that the collapse is just a little further out than you believe it is.

If you want to be making a cryptocurrency that makes any kind of economic sense as a currency, the rate of currency creation a year out ought to be about the same, give or take  up to 20% depending on what kind of economic model you're looking for, as the rate of currency creation on the first day.  Let the rate at which new coins enter the economy remain fairly constant as you make the shift from PoW to PoS, and make that shift gradually and carefully. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

I don't think there really is a reasonable way to have a 100% proof-of-stake coin that's that way from the very beginning.

Actually, this is not about a coin, it was just an analogy.

[The Chainmaker]

After reading the suggestions I came to such a method:

1. Create a mintable Nxt subcurrency and let people mint as many coins as they can within 24 hours.
2. Create a special Bitcoin address and let those who took part in the previous step send several satoshis to back every minted coin.

These two simple steps solve sockpuppet issue (because resource testing is used), greatly reduce number of script kiddies (or school network admins) with botnets (because minted coins must be backed by bitcoins) and reduce advantage of being a Bitcoin early adopter (because minting requires a lot of GPUs and ASICs can't be used for that).

So, this whole thread was just a pump for MS on NXT?  Go fishing by asking people what is the best way to distribute and then tell them.... "I found the answer, it is NXT!"  Bull $&!#. 

I was thinking that what you really want is as LARGE an initial user base as possible.

I don't need too many users. 1000 is max.

If you want 1000 people that aren't socks, then get a script and start sending out invites to all BTT members with the most posts.  Person with the most posts get the first invite, person with the second most gets the second invite.  Do batches of 50 or 100 every so often.  When 1,000 people have responded to you, stop spamming. 

This proof of comments and is much harder to game than other systems.  Somebody simply can't have a lot of sock puppets each with thousands of posts. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

So, this whole thread was just a pump for MS on NXT?

No.

This proof of comments and is much harder to game than other systems.  Somebody simply can't have a lot of sock puppets each with thousands of posts. 

You are wrong. BTT is known for its market of Hero Member accounts.

[The Chainmaker]

This proof of comments and is much harder to game than other systems.  Somebody simply can't have a lot of sock puppets each with thousands of posts.  

You are wrong. BTT is known for its market of Hero Member accounts.

No, I am right.

Sure there will be a few sock puppets, but there won't be any cases of 1 person is getting 5%.  

To buy a BTT sock puppet isn't cheap.  A person would be much better off just waiting for the inevitable dump after launch.  We are talking about hundreds of people getting free coins for just responding to an email.  There will be a big dump and anybody that is tricky enough to buy a hero account would be smart enough to know it would be much cheaper to just buy coins at launch.

To make a system where people can mine coins with CPU's is much easier gamed.  I have 5 cpu's of i3 or higher at my disposal right now with 0% extra effort, but if I wanted to obtain 5 hero accounts just to get some of your free coins, that would be quite a task and an expensive one.  

Proof of comments are are proof of work.  

[Come-from-Beyond]

No, I am right.

Ok. But I need a cryptographic proof. Distribution based on records of a website that can change its internal records can't be proved.

[The Chainmaker]

When NEM launched Utopian Future said if anybody goes through the trouble of creating a sock puppet deserves the extra coin.  That was bull $&!#.   But anybody that makes 3000 comments or spends $1000 to get a hero account does deserve the extra coin.  

Computer hardware is not a resource that is hard to come by for techies on BTT.   But hero accounts are a resource that is hard to come by especially if people know that they are worth extra coin of your next project.  The moment you start sending out those emails is the moment that the price of a hero account just went up.  

[The Chainmaker]

No, I am right.

Ok. But I need a cryptographic proof. Distribution based on records of a website that can change its internal records can't be proved.

You can snapshot BTT right now and used the snapshot, not some future changed version.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You can snapshot BTT right now and used the snapshot, not some future changed version.

How to prove that the snapshot is real? What if one of the chosen ones deletes all his posts on BTT after the distribution?

[The Chainmaker]

You can snapshot BTT right now and used the snapshot, not some future changed version.

How to prove that the snapshot is real? What if one of the chosen ones deletes all his posts on BTT after the distribution?

Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 

Something must confirm that the hash is valid.

[The Chainmaker]

Snapshot it. Hash it. And put the hash in your chain. 

Something must confirm that the hash is valid.

Sure, put the file on Mega and anybody that wants to confirm can download the file and make sure that the hash checks. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

Sure, put the file on Mega and anybody that wants to confirm can download the file and make sure that the hash checks.  

I'm talking about a cryptographic proof. Your suggestion doesn't correspond to the definition of "cryptographic proof".

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

I was thinking that what you really want is as LARGE an initial user base as possible.

I don't need too many users. 1000 is max.

can you elaborate on why 1000 is max?  if all you need is 1000 users then maybe a lotto is the best

[Come-from-Beyond]

can you elaborate on why 1000 is max?  if all you need is 1000 users then maybe a lotto is the best

I like round numbers.

[Anotheranonlol]

No, I am right.

Ok. But I need a cryptographic proof. Distribution based on records of a website that can change its internal records can't be proved.

http://virtual-notary.org/dispatch/webpage/input/

[Come-from-Beyond]

http://virtual-notary.org/dispatch/webpage/input/

It requires to trust the site.