Bitcoin Forum
October 23, 2020, 06:04:41 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.20.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin Better Business Bureau  (Read 4777 times)
barbarousrelic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 675
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 04:17:16 AM
 #1

Here's an idea I had while mowing the lawn this afternoon.

There are many times when I see a new Bitcoin business and I have no idea whether it's legit. So I have to ask around to find out, hope some people respond, and then check to see if the responders are long-standing members of the community or sockpuppets, and so on.

There should be an organization similar in concept to the Better Business Bureau (yes, I know the BBB is a flawed organization but we don't have to adopt the flawed aspects) and the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. This organization should issue approvals to certain Bitcoin businesses which have good reputation for honesty and upholding contracts. Maybe have a secure image they can feature on their website touting their status, or just a listing with a letter rating. Decisions would be made by consensus of a committee of upstanding members of the community.

Having such a trusted organization would be very helpful to people who can't spend lots of time on these forums every day, keeping up with Bitcoin news.

Does such an organization already exist? If not, who would be interested in getting this moving?

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
1603433081
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1603433081

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1603433081
Reply with quote  #2

1603433081
Report to moderator
1603433081
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1603433081

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1603433081
Reply with quote  #2

1603433081
Report to moderator
1603433081
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1603433081

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1603433081
Reply with quote  #2

1603433081
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1603433081
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1603433081

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1603433081
Reply with quote  #2

1603433081
Report to moderator
1603433081
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1603433081

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1603433081
Reply with quote  #2

1603433081
Report to moderator
barbarousrelic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 675
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 04:29:17 AM
 #2

How much does it cost to purchase a seal of approval?

In other words, how can we make this incorruptible?

A committee? Let's play the price is right.
It should be forbidden to accept any funding from the businesses being rated. That would be the primary difference from the regular BBB that I alluded to.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
BadBear
v2.0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1025



View Profile WWW
August 12, 2012, 04:36:30 AM
 #3

How much does it cost to purchase a seal of approval?

In other words, how can we make this incorruptible?

A committee? Let's play the price is right.
It should be forbidden to accept any funding from the businesses being rated. That would be the primary difference from the regular BBB that I alluded to.

Of course, but what mechanism do you propose to prevent this kind of activity?

Yeah that's gonna be pretty hard to enforce, particularly since you are talking about people that you will probably never actually meet in person.

Also you can search for UABB to find some previous discussions about problems with trust. Not to say it wouldn't work, but it'd be difficult to do.

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
barbarousrelic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 675
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 04:48:16 AM
 #4

There would be problems enforcing it due to everyone's familiarity with this great anonymous currency, but we can try to work around that. Perhaps by keeping the decision-making process open, it will become apparent if someone is giving undue support to a crooked business. After all, if they are giving undue recommendations because they are on the take, they're going to have to speak out defending shady business practices at some point, which everyone will see.

Wikipedia works somehow even though there are very big questions about how it can work. Why don't businesses bribe Wikipedia editors to promote their products, or make the edits themselves? The answer is that their biased entries are usually overwhelmed by the unbiased majority.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
BCB
CTG
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1002


BCJ


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 05:09:45 AM
 #5

HATE the BBB

Like your idea. 

I think crowd sourcing credibility is best.  But what is the mechanism?  Votes.  A stack exchange system?

Also any rating system is not full proof.

How many people would have given Bitcoinica the thumbs down the day before the first Hack?

Who saw mybitcoin coming?

Was TradeHill solvent before the Dwolla reversals.

Is Mt. Gox insolvent now and are they practicing fractional reserve?

Lots of questions.  No way to really prove any factual answers.

TRUST is key.

Maybe a web of trust.

Do we trust Gavin Andreesen.  Who does he trust.  Mount Gox.  Bit Instant.  And who do they trust.

Intersango???   Who still trusts PhanotmCircuit and gentix?

Zhoutong?  He still has stanch supporters.  Although they all may be the same person.  An that person is probably into My Little Pony Porn.

I think for the time being the easier goal would be to ferret out the weasels and the scammers.  And let those trusted entities who build reputation  rise to the top.  But then do they become Goldman Sachs,   Long Point Capital, MF Global?  Are any of them run by Bernie Madoff.

Bitcoin is transformation.  We'll figure it out as we go along.
edd
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1001



View Profile WWW
August 12, 2012, 05:18:15 AM
 #6

Someone from the Mt Gox support staff posted that they were planning on "verifying" Bitcoin related businesses and issuing their own Seal of Approval. I and others pointed out the inherent susceptibility to corruption just as it has been pointed out here and, as far as I remember, no one came up with an acceptable means of checks and balances.

Still around.
Spekulatius
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 12, 2012, 03:11:51 PM
 #7

just make it a user review website, like ciao, dooyoo, etc. That way ratings are difficult to fake, (nearly) no trust needed because 100 different people rate a single business and its hard to corrupt AND you dont have to do anything besides keep the site running and kick trolls out.
BCB
CTG
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1002


BCJ


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 03:14:53 PM
 #8

just make it a user review website, like ciao, dooyoo, etc. That way ratings are difficult to fake, (nearly) no trust needed because 100 different people rate a single business and its hard to corrupt AND you dont have to do anything besides keep the site running and kick trolls out.

Not familiar with either of these.  Care to explain.

Thanks.
unclemantis
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10


(:firstbits => "1mantis")


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 06:35:42 PM
 #9

BBB is EVIL. If one is BBB acredited then that company is ALWAYS RIGHT.

Fuck that.

Lets come up with something with standards that we NEED not copy off of something else!

PHP, Ruby, Rails, ASP, JavaScript, SQL
20+ years experience w/ Internet Technologies
Bitcoin OTC | GPG Public Key                                                                               thoughts?
barbarousrelic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 675
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 12, 2012, 11:04:55 PM
 #10

Yes, there will be some involved people with conflicts of interest. But I propose modeling it after the way Wikipedia makes decisions - it shouldn't matter how many people say yes or no, it matters who posts a convincing story about something good or bad a company did. It's usually apparent which side has the better evidence and better case.

At the risk of sounding like I'm ignoring constructive criticisms - by all means please continue to bring them up - I think a group of us just get this started and work the problems out as we go rather than trying to preplan too much. Any volunteers?

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3234
Merit: 1787


Viva Ut Vivas


View Profile WWW
August 13, 2012, 03:46:22 PM
 #11

You could go with the model of Angie's List where the consumer pays to find out the rating of different companies.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
BCB
CTG
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1002


BCJ


View Profile
August 13, 2012, 04:17:01 PM
 #12

A woman!?
Meatpile
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 277
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 13, 2012, 05:33:39 PM
 #13

Why shoehorn another "legacy app" into the world of bitcoin?

If this is serious then what it needs is something entirely new, like volunteers from all over the planet who go to inspect these businesses and make sure they have real paperwork, and real assets, and then they get ratings for doing multiple inspections so they are potentially more trustworthy.

Of course this will all fail as soon as one scam goes down and you start blaming the poor inspector instead of the real theives, so noone will bother participating.

Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3234
Merit: 1787


Viva Ut Vivas


View Profile WWW
August 13, 2012, 05:39:34 PM
 #14

BBB is EVIL. If one is BBB acredited then that company is ALWAYS RIGHT.

I have had nothing but good experiences with the BBB. I had some problems with AT&T and when I contacted the BBB, AT&T worked with me to make it right. Same with Verizon.

Some companies take their BBB rating seriously.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!