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Author Topic: [GLBSE] Nyancat Financial: Your Friend for Life (see post #2 for FAQ)  (Read 17529 times)
TradeFortress
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September 24, 2012, 01:02:52 AM
 #81

Dear Usagi: How the hell do you make 1% per week?
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September 24, 2012, 07:24:10 AM
 #82

Dear Usagi: How the hell do you make 1% per week?

Step 1. Buy a FPGA single for 55 BTC.
Step 2. Make 0.25 BTC a day. That's 1.75 BTC per week.
Step 3. Pay out 2% and keep 1% for yourself

*RALLY MONKEY*

How many years it will take to break even and to start actually making money? 1 year? And then what? You make your fist 10 USD profit?
If you believe that diff will rise, btc price will rise, then your bets bet is to convert fiat to BTC.
No need to waste BTC on hardware, that will become obsolete faster than it can earn back the investment.
BFL trade-in? Sure, and how long is the waiting list and downtime while you wait for the replacement that can keep up with the rising difficulty? Unless you get almost free electricity, small scale mining is not a business. You are better off taking your USD and converting it to BTC.
Are you seriously willing to convert 55 BTC back to 600+usd piggy bank so you can spend the next 12+ months winkleing your investors coins out of it like a retard, while telling your investors that they "earn" income?
If you take N% from that bs business for yourself, then yes - YOU are the only one who earns income. Investors have to wait for a very long time.

Quote
Step 2. Make 0.25 BTC a day. That's 1.75 BTC per week.
In less than 6 months you make 1/2 of it, and then the halving happens... pfff.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 24, 2012, 01:14:43 PM
 #83

3. The overflow into NYAN.C will be significant in coming weeks due to the amount of HRPT now in A and B.

I hope you are not planning on keeping a significant portion of NYAN.A and NYAN.B invested in OBSI.HRPT?
I hoped the "no Pirate" would obviously convert in "nothing that quacks like a Pirate"...  Tongue
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September 24, 2012, 01:31:14 PM
 #84

3. The overflow into NYAN.C will be significant in coming weeks due to the amount of HRPT now in A and B.

I hope you are not planning on keeping a significant portion of NYAN.A and NYAN.B invested in OBSI.HRPT?
I hoped the "no Pirate" would obviously convert in "nothing that quacks like a Pirate"...  Tongue

NYAN.A was sold as a low risk fund. I feel like a bait and switch just happened.

It is entirely unnacceptable that I am now exposed to an illegal ponzi scheme through no fault of my own and with no exit possible because of no liquidity.

FML.

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September 24, 2012, 02:47:38 PM
 #85

3. The overflow into NYAN.C will be significant in coming weeks due to the amount of HRPT now in A and B.

I hope you are not planning on keeping a significant portion of NYAN.A and NYAN.B invested in OBSI.HRPT?
I hoped the "no Pirate" would obviously convert in "nothing that quacks like a Pirate"...  Tongue

NYAN.A was sold as a low risk fund. I feel like a bait and switch just happened.

It is entirely unnacceptable that I am now exposed to an illegal ponzi scheme through no fault of my own and with no exit possible because of no liquidity.

FML.

No, don't worry, and you have it wrong. It does not matter what assets are in A. What each fund holds is not relevant. All losses will be borne by .B and .C first. As soon as I can the HRPT will be moved out of .A or sold off for another asset. You won't lose anything in NYAN.A, this is guaranteed.

Even if everything in NYAN.A goes to zero I will transfer all the assets in NYAN.B and in CPA to NYAN.A to keep it afloat.

If that fails (nuclear war or whatever) I'll just buy back shares with my own money. NYAN.A is the safest and strongest asset you can buy on the GLBSE today.

Having three nominally different funds is maybe more confusing than useful, when holdings and dividends are in fact more or less common.

Maybe you should (should have?) put it all together, deciding simply that NAV of NYAN.A is 1 insured, NAV of NYAN.B is the lesser between 1 and what's left, and NAV of NYAN.C is anything left.
Then manage it as you would with one portfolio to get the maximum return, regardless of what between A,B,C the funds come from. So that NYAN.C would be a high risk-high profit bet only on your ability to manage the fund, and not, as it is currently, also on the craziest possible assets available. This would have probably avoided losing so much on Pirate, for instance; and now on OBSI.HRPT i guess.
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September 24, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
 #86

...

No, don't worry, and you have it wrong. It does not matter what assets are in A. What each fund holds is not relevant. All losses will be borne by .B and .C first. As soon as I can the HRPT will be moved out of .A or sold off for another asset. You won't lose anything in NYAN.A, this is guaranteed.

Even if everything in NYAN.A goes to zero I will transfer all the assets in NYAN.B and in CPA to NYAN.A to keep it afloat.

If that fails (nuclear war or whatever) I'll just buy back shares with my own money. NYAN.A is the safest and strongest asset you can buy on the GLBSE today.

What!? I do not like what I am reading.
You can not TRANSFER stuff out from portfolio B to to portfolio A just so you can cover up the mistakes you made in A.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 24, 2012, 02:53:35 PM
 #87

just in case, here is the contract.

NYANCAT FINANCIAL

I. Investment Hypothesis:
Nyancat Financial is a financial services company listing the GLBSE. We allow investors to make investment choices based on risk as well as interest rate, allowing you to take on as much (or as little) risk as you want.
Investment income from NYAN.A, NYAN.B, and NYAN.C is pooled. NYAN.A is paid 0.01 bitcoins per share. NYAN.B is paid 0.02 bitcoins per share, and the rest of the money is paid to NYAN.C.

The sector and risk profile is:
1. NYAN: equal exposure to A, B and C funds
2. NYAN.A: Mining, insured investments, and other extremely low risk securities.
3. NYAN.B: Proven bitcoin-only businesses which are not mining, and not pirate.
4. NYAN.C: Pirate, OBSI.HRPT, and other unproven, high risk strategies.

II. Operations of NYAN
Nyancat Financial is a bitcoin-only financial services company. We perform various financial services for our customers including bitcoin deposit accounts, bitcoin brokerage services, bitcoin securities, bitcoin trusts, and bitcoin loans. Our operations are collected into, and segregated by, the wholly owned bitcoin only bonds NYAN.A, NYAN.B and NYAN.C. Our operations in NYAN are simple and transparent. We are a bitcoin only company; we do not use leverage and we retain 100% backing of all customer deposits. By assigning and guaranteeing risk to the various securities in addition to interest rate, we allow investors to make decisions based on risk versus reward in a completely open and transparrent manner separate from the underlying securities backing the issues. If you do not see in NYAN.A, NYAN.B or NYAN.C a risk/reward profile that fits your investment strategy please contact us. We will custom-create an investment portfolio that matches your needs. We are capable of managing offline portfolios which do not expose themselves to company risk of specific institutions such as GLBSE, MtGOX, BTC-E, MPOE, Bitcoinia, and so forth.

Nyancat Financial Contract for NYAN (Parent Company)
1. Nyancat Financial ("NYAN") holds only NYAN.A, NYAN.B and NYAN.C, and does not hold any other stock or bond.
2. NYAN will act to balance it's ownership of NYAN.A, NYAN.B and NYAN.C by buying and selling shares.
3. NYAN will open custom accounts for customers based on a customer's desired risk and reward profile. (Standard requirements are what interest rate the customer wants, how frequent payouts will be, and how much risk they want to take on).
4. Nyancat Financial's operations and balance sheets will be made fully transparent to the public and backed up by signed statements from our backers where appropriate.
5. Company Risk will be mitigated by installing a dead man's switch. If the operator becomes incapable of paying out dividends, someone else will step in to do it.
6. Company Risk will be mitigated by installing a default switch. If Nyancat Financial defaults on this contract, the institutions which we hold money with will be authorized to pay out the value of our holdings to shareholders on our behalf.
7. Nyancat financial pays weekly dividends, to be paid within 30 days of the end of any unpaid calendar week.

Nyancat Financial Contract for NYAN.A (Low-Risk/Insured Fund)
1. The Low-Risk/Insured Fund ("NYAN.A") profits solely from investment in, and ownership of, high quality mining securities, insured investment vehicles, and other extremely low risk securities.
2. Investments are chosen entirely based on their risk profile; we seek insured investments and very low risk investments only.
3. NYAN.A will pay 0.01 per week in dividends.
4. The value of NYAN.A shares is guaranteed by CPA and NYAN against capital loss via the reasonably timely maintenance of a bidwall at 0.99 bitcoins per fund unit.
5. The dividend interest rate is guaranteed by CPA. If NYAN is unable to pay a dividend of 0.01 on NYAN.A, CPA will pay it.
6. Holders of NYAN.A are guaranteed first claim to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN.
7. Dividends are paid weekly, to be paid within 30 days of the end of any unpaid calendar week.

Nyancat Financial Contract for NYAN.B (Balanced Risk Fund)
1. The Balanced Risk Fund ("NYAN.B") profits solely from investment in, and ownership of, bitcoin businesses which are not mining operations and not exposed to "pirate".
2. Investments are chosen entirely based on sector; we seek to invest in the bitcoin community at large; but again, no mining, and no pirate.
3. NYAN.B will pay as dividend from the pool of A, B and C the lesser of 0.02 bitcoins per fund unit and the amount remaining after NYAN.A pays dividends.
4. Holders of NYAN.B are guaranteed second claim (after holders of NYAN.A) to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN.
5. Dividends are paid weekly, to be paid within 30 days of the end of any unpaid calendar week.

Nyancat Financial Contract for NYAN.C (High Risk Fund)
1. The High-Risk Fund ("NYAN.C") profits solely from investment in, and ownership of, high-yield securities.
2. Investments are chosen entirely based on their interest rate without regard to the risk profile.
3. NYAN.C will be paid whatever isn't paid to NYAN.A and NYAN.B.
4. Holders of NYAN.C are guaranteed no rights or claim to any assets of NYAN, NYAN.A, or NYAN.B.
5. Dividends are paid weekly, to be paid within 30 days of the end of any unpaid calendar week.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
Francesco
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September 24, 2012, 03:00:26 PM
 #88

Quote
Holders of NYAN.A are guaranteed first claim to any holdings, bitcoins or other assets of NYAN.

But again, it doesn't make a difference where those assets are: in case the NAV of NYAN.A went to 0, it would still pay full 1% taking it from the earnings of NYAN.B. That's why it doesn't make sense to call them three distinct funds in the first place.
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September 24, 2012, 05:21:19 PM
 #89

@prawda

I will give credit where credit is due, and usagi has some talents. The most obvious is hiding his true financial status by creating this labyrinth of companies that create revenue streams between them and that invest in each other and insure each other, making it pretty hard to assess even though (and thats again to his credit) he does provide fairly complete information for everything except CPA.

Still, once you scratch a little of the surface, some things become clear.  

Lets look at nyan.a first. By far its biggest holding is BMF (another usagi company) and he values it at 0.59 BTC/share.  Is that warranted? Its safe to say he can not liquidate his shares for anything like that price, seeing the sum of all bids for BMF totals less than 3BTC or 0.0006 BTC per share. So Nyan is stuck with BMF which is really one big gamble on (BFL) asics, either directly through the ones he ordered (extremely late), or indirectly through assets like BMMO.

The second biggest holding is OBSI.HRPT,  an almost certain ponzi that has just started collapsing, but still has an exit as there are some bids. Perhaps something could be salvaged if usagi is fast enough.
edit: I thought this was a 1 BTC bond, but its 0.1BTC, so the total bids are just over 30BTC. Scratch that exit possibility.

TL;DR. If asics turn out to be profitable for miners, even late ones, this bond might provide a positive ROI, but only about half of what most other ASIC related assets would yield. If asics turn out to be losers (which I expect), NYAN.A will become as worthless as the ponzi's he's invested in.

On to NYAN.B

Nyan.b's biggest investment is once again in OBSI.HRPT aka obsiponzi. If usagi doesnt get out really fast while there are still some bids for it, you can scratch 26% of nyan.b's NAV.

Second biggest holding is CPA. Another usagi company that is grossly overvalued in his books. Currently on the books for 0.061 BTC per share, but trading on GLSBE for 0.24 and more importantly perhaps, with a market depth of less than 10BTC total or  0.0002 BTC per share. Most of that is probably usagi himself as he announced he would be repurchasing his own shares, and has been doing so.

Third largest asset is DMC. A total fuck up of a company ran in to the ground by Diablo;  currently frozen by GLSBE because of suspected fraud and/or gross mismanagement. To be fair, usagi was given these assets almost for free, but it remains to be seen if he will be allowed to keep them as I suspect they were obtained fraudulently.

TL;DR I wouldnt touch this with a 10 foot pole. Nothing but rubbish, ponzi's and "inbred".

Lastly NYAN.C

This one already lost 85% of its value, probably even more when he publishes his next financial results as most of these assets have dropped further, so there isnt much left here. Biggest asset is a loan (BIF.1YR.LOAN), I have no idea how legitimate that one is, but it might be.

Second largest one is V.HRL, another obvious ponzi scam, and/or obsi passthrough with no emergency exit.

TL;DR  lets not beat a dead horse.

And then we have CPA. I guess thats far another thread, but consider CPA is insuring the above junk, thereby indirectly insuring significant amounts of ponzi investments.

Now Usagi is probably able to keep up appearances for some time longer, after all, because there is nearly zero market depth for his own companies, he can and does prop up spot prices by repurchasing his own junk, which helps him cook his books as for a few BTC he can pretend his assets are worth thousands BTC more than they ready are,  but this wont end well.

This is worth preserving for posterity.

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September 24, 2012, 05:38:41 PM
 #90

3. The overflow into NYAN.C will be significant in coming weeks due to the amount of HRPT now in A and B.

I hope you are not planning on keeping a significant portion of NYAN.A and NYAN.B invested in OBSI.HRPT?
I hoped the "no Pirate" would obviously convert in "nothing that quacks like a Pirate"...  Tongue

NYAN.A was sold as a low risk fund. I feel like a bait and switch just happened.

It is entirely unnacceptable that I am now exposed to an illegal ponzi scheme through no fault of my own and with no exit possible because of no liquidity.

FML.

You should argue with me more and invest in usagi and his ilk more. It werks.

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September 24, 2012, 05:41:28 PM
 #91

...

No, don't worry, and you have it wrong. It does not matter what assets are in A. What each fund holds is not relevant. All losses will be borne by .B and .C first. As soon as I can the HRPT will be moved out of .A or sold off for another asset. You won't lose anything in NYAN.A, this is guaranteed.

Even if everything in NYAN.A goes to zero I will transfer all the assets in NYAN.B and in CPA to NYAN.A to keep it afloat.

If that fails (nuclear war or whatever) I'll just buy back shares with my own money. NYAN.A is the safest and strongest asset you can buy on the GLBSE today.

What!? I do not like what I am reading.
You can not TRANSFER stuff out from portfolio B to to portfolio A just so you can cover up the mistakes you made in A.

You don't understand: the nitwit thought he's making a CDO. Then he saw the MPCD series and now he's doing "something more like that".

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September 24, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
 #92

You don't understand: the nitwit thought he's making a CDO. Then he saw the MPCD series and now he's doing "something more like that".

Actually it's common knowledge Mircea copied me. NYAN is verifiably older than MPCD. Sure, Mircea talked about operating a derivative 6 months or a year ago but he never actually got off his ass and did it till a month after I started NYAN.

This was actually discussed in IRC and people were laughing at Mircea for copying me. Don't take my word for it...

April 13th. How long have you been around?

Not that anyone is taking your word for anything.

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September 24, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
 #93

Step 1. Buy a FPGA single for 55 BTC.
Step 2. Make 0.25 BTC a day. That's 1.75 BTC per week.
Step 3. Pay out 2% and keep 1% for yourself
Step 4. Don't include hardware depreciation costs in your accounts.
Step 5. "Profit".

Everyone here should know by know about the dodgy accounting that tends to surround everything Bitcoin, surely?

What!? I do not like what I am reading.
You can not TRANSFER stuff out from portfolio B to to portfolio A just so you can cover up the mistakes you made in A.
NYAN.* are effectively a kind of tranched security. Remember how that worked out for all those holders of CDOs in the non-Bitcoin world?

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September 24, 2012, 09:27:07 PM
 #94

do you think GIGAMINING is crap? BMF? PUREMINING? BTC-MINING, and so on?

They are at best, very high risk. At worst, yeah utter crap. FWIW, mortgage prices didnt collapse as badly as those mining assets, and I suspect the onslaught a few 100 TH worth of ASICs will bring will make that collapse look decidedly small.

And those are your "star" assets. Why dont you mention the real crap like OBSI.HRPT, DMC, V.HRL,... CPA ?

And while you are clicking the show/hide button on my post, can you please explain how you calculate "market value" on your spreadsheets? The numbers dont seem to correspond to anything I can find on GLBSE, not last trade price, not ask, not bid, not 5 day average. How do you calculate it?
   
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September 24, 2012, 10:13:28 PM
 #95

For example?
Some variation of
=average(fetchTicker(concatenate(A7),"t5davg"),fetchTicker(concatenate(A7),"t24havg"))/100000000

Fair enough. So your data is delayed. Buys you some more time when things begin unraveling. But my -28% NAV was accurate with current data, it seems that shocked you, but that is where you are headed for - at best because I dont see a lot of those shares going up. Quite the contrary actually, it seems my stats are too optimistic again. BMF just lost half its value by your screwed metric and have you checked your obsiponzi shares? You still have them for 0.0898 on your books, but they trade for 0.055. Go see the thread,  dividends will be frozen, thread is locked, bidbook is only a handful of shares. In short: you are screwed, just like we said, but what do trolls know, right ?

And it wont stop there. Im sure you have a lot more obsiponzi exposure than you realize, obsi;s mining bond contracts also stink to high heaven and I dont even want to think of the impact for CPA insuring all that rubbish and other assets that most likely are directly or indirectly exposed to it.

Quote
If you don't like my funds don't invest. They're not scams because you don't like them but claiming they are and lying about me and my work is fraudulent.

I never claimed it was a scam. I have no proof it is a scam, just as likely is that you have absolutely no clue what you are doing and you actually believe your own fantasies. But you are damn right I wont invest in them.
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September 24, 2012, 11:59:30 PM
 #96

If that fails (nuclear war or whatever) I'll just buy back shares with my own money. NYAN.A is the safest and strongest asset you can buy on the GLBSE today.

Bold claims that I like
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September 25, 2012, 12:24:58 AM
 #97

Don't even respond to Pukepet Usagi, just place on ignore and pretend it died in the bird flu epidemic.
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September 25, 2012, 07:08:42 AM
 #98

I'm just really suprised theymos won't ban you for outright lying about people over, and over, and over..... There's more lies in what you just wrote than there are fingers on my hand.

Im truly sorry about that  Cry. Must be hard typing with no fingers.
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September 25, 2012, 09:48:53 AM
 #99

1. The Low-Risk/Insured Fund ("NYAN.A") profits solely from investment in, and ownership of, high quality mining securities, insured investment vehicles, and other extremely low risk securities.


Is it a breach of contract to own OBSI.HRPT in NYAN.A ? It is neither mining or insured or low risk.

Please explain.


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September 25, 2012, 05:56:58 PM
 #100

No, don't worry, and you have it wrong. It does not matter what assets are in A. What each fund holds is not relevant. All losses will be borne by .B and .C first. As soon as I can the HRPT will be moved out of .A or sold off for another asset. You won't lose anything in NYAN.A, this is guaranteed.

Even if everything in NYAN.A goes to zero I will transfer all the assets in NYAN.B and in CPA to NYAN.A to keep it afloat.

If that fails (nuclear war or whatever) I'll just buy back shares with my own money. NYAN.A is the safest and strongest asset you can buy on the GLBSE today.

Having three nominally different funds is maybe more confusing than useful, when holdings and dividends are in fact more or less common.

Maybe you should (should have?) put it all together, deciding simply that NAV of NYAN.A is 1 insured, NAV of NYAN.B is the lesser between 1 and what's left, and NAV of NYAN.C is anything left.
Then manage it as you would with one portfolio to get the maximum return, regardless of what between A,B,C the funds come from. So that NYAN.C would be a high risk-high profit bet only on your ability to manage the fund, and not, as it is currently, also on the craziest possible assets available. This would have probably avoided losing so much on Pirate, for instance; and now on OBSI.HRPT i guess.
+1 Looking at this as a single portfolio makes a lot of sense, I've wondered why it isn't done this way before, the asset transfer and payments between current portfolios just make things messier and adds unnecessary complications.

That calculation for NAV values works for .A, but the NAV isn't what's important for returns in the case of .B, just the weekly returns (The NAV of .A doesn't matter either as it's insured). NAV could be 0.02 as long as it made 100% weekly (this doesn't even begin to approach reality, just some hyperbole). Usagi does currently use NAV during sales to determine price but they're slightly uncoupled from returns.

At current NYAN's site lists about 3678 BTC worth of assets for 6972 Total shares (A:1606 B:1983 C:3383). So the overall with the above method .A would be worth 1BTC@1%/wk, .B would be worth 1@2%/wk, and .C would be worth ~0.0263 according to their respective NAV's (again, all this based on the above calculation, valuations and share count based on http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/nyan/).

For reference, prices are around (at time of writing of course) .A:0.938 .B:0.97 .C:0.09.

As for simply maximizing returns, well people that buy into .A want a low risk investment, .B cares less but doesn't expect their investment to go into anything that looks too sketchy, and .C just wants maximum return. But that just means keeping share counts in line with the relative risk that's desired overall.

(This post seems long and dense even after re-reading, sorry)
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