Bitcoin Forum
December 14, 2017, 07:09:56 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Oligarchy - The Book  (Read 1890 times)
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 03, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
 #21

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, that being this book and the ideas that are contained within it.

Please?

 Smiley

Rest assured, I'm not going to rise to his troll-bait. If he has something productive to say, I'll respond, but crap like that gets an eye-roll and a click on the "hide" link.

As to this:

Hope that was as fun for you as it was for me.
 Grin

Yeah, that was pretty funny. Rest assured, though, I see the dude behind the curtain. Just because I tell the people, "Hey, that Wizard is an ass-hole" doesn't mean that I don't also tell the people who agree that yeah, the wizard is an asshole that he's just a dude behind the curtain. But if I start shouting on the rooftops that the wizard is just a dude behind a curtain, I'll get laughed at.


Point of the info-graphic, being, of course, that while the oligarchy uses the abstraction or organization of "The State" or "Government" or "The Guy or Class of People That Have Convinced Everyone Else That They Should Be Able To Do Whatever They Want" depending on the historical time-line is just the cover for the endless wealth accumulation, greed and avarice of eternal lust for more power and more wealth by that class of people.  It is this Greed that they serve and ITS nature that needs to be understood, not so much the mannerisms, formalities and customs of the existing methods by which said objectives are accomplished.  This is the difference from (brace for impact of analogy) seeing the boxing glove hitting you in the face and trying to understand ITS purpose over the purpose of the boxer who is delivering it into your jaw - where the intention driving the system is actually exposed.

In addition, the Libertarian doctrines ignore the development and creation of the modern State, which was (despite its obvious failings) a huge leap-forward in regards to individual rights and freedom.  The "Oligarchy" book is covering this fairly well, and another reason I recommend it so highly (presently on page 120 of this book, unfortunately my life is getting in the way of reading this as fast as I'd like).

Once this is learned, then you realize (pursuant to this analogy) that the boxer beating you in the face has no monopoly on being able to use 'the glove', and you prepare to 'suit up' yourself to punch them back and see how they like it.

Crudest analogy evar.


I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 09:36:21 PM
 #22

Once this is learned, then you realize (pursuant to this analogy) that the boxer beating you in the face has no monopoly on being able to use 'the glove', and you prepare to 'suit up' yourself to punch them back and see how they like it.

Crudest analogy evar.

Yeah, it's kinda crude. But it works. To continue it, I could get in the boxing ring, and duke it out with that guy, but he's bigger, he's had more practice, and he's got a longer reach than I do. So, rather than get in the ring and hope to put in a few good punches before I go down, I avoid the ring entirely, and laugh as he swings his fists at open air.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 03, 2012, 10:28:19 PM
 #23

Once this is learned, then you realize (pursuant to this analogy) that the boxer beating you in the face has no monopoly on being able to use 'the glove', and you prepare to 'suit up' yourself to punch them back and see how they like it.

Crudest analogy evar.

Yeah, it's kinda crude. But it works. To continue it, I could get in the boxing ring, and duke it out with that guy, but he's bigger, he's had more practice, and he's got a longer reach than I do. So, rather than get in the ring and hope to put in a few good punches before I go down, I avoid the ring entirely, and laugh as he swings his fists at open air.

What if you aren't in a ring and the other person (or group) is instigating it against your will, and every corner of the earth is dominated by such oppressors that have to get their nose bloodied before they learn not to try and bully you?

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 10:42:21 PM
 #24

What if you aren't in a ring and the other person (or group) is instigating it against your will, and every corner of the earth is dominated by such oppressors that have to get their nose bloodied before they learn not to try and bully you?

Well, then it would be in my best interest to gather with a large enough group of people who also do not want to box that we can prevent being forced into a match.

I think we're straining the limits of this analogy.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
Bitcoin Oz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700


Wat


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 10:51:57 PM
 #25

http://freestateproject.org/ is one answer to it.

nedbert9
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252

Inactive


View Profile
August 03, 2012, 10:55:36 PM
 #26

This look like an interesting book, but it's not a new idea. Jefferson warned us about them. Kubrick threaded this theme throughout his films. It's not a conspiracy though, it's just who we are. Just being in this forum you are helping to enlighten the future about the nature of money. It's always technology that gives us progress.

It clearly shouldn't be a new idea, but here in the Western World oligarchy and the rule of wealth has been largely conditioned out of us, and it wasn't an accident or a coincidence.  This book firmly re-establishes ancient to contemporary history showing that oligarchy is alive and well and must be considered as one of the central tenants, one of the prime movers for modern political realities.  To not understand it is to be forever politically blind and flailing in the dark.


It's funny.  One of my fav British actors was discussing a trip to LA for talks in a US remake of the show he was staring in.

He mentioned to the Studio exec's/writers that one of the qualities that made the British show so popular was the depiction of characters in well defined class stations.  That the characters were real and relate-able.

The Studio people said in response, "That wont work in America.  We have a classless society."


It's amazing how people's perception can be so disconnected from reality.
Bitcoin Oz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700


Wat


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 11:05:16 PM
 #27

This look like an interesting book, but it's not a new idea. Jefferson warned us about them. Kubrick threaded this theme throughout his films. It's not a conspiracy though, it's just who we are. Just being in this forum you are helping to enlighten the future about the nature of money. It's always technology that gives us progress.

It clearly shouldn't be a new idea, but here in the Western World oligarchy and the rule of wealth has been largely conditioned out of us, and it wasn't an accident or a coincidence.  This book firmly re-establishes ancient to contemporary history showing that oligarchy is alive and well and must be considered as one of the central tenants, one of the prime movers for modern political realities.  To not understand it is to be forever politically blind and flailing in the dark.


It's funny.  One of my fav British actors was discussing a trip to LA for talks in a US remake of the show he was staring in.

He mentioned to the Studio exec's/writers that one of the qualities that made the British show so popular was the depiction of characters in well defined class stations.  That the characters were real and relate-able.

The Studio people said in response, "That wont work in America.  We have a classless society."


It's amazing how people's perception can be so disconnected from reality.


People also say that in Australia but they forget we are still a monarchy. Just before the Queen visited Victoria last year they crushed the Occupy Melbourne protest so she wouldnt see the tents in city square.

You see this and realise as soon as you try and fight back the ruling class will trample you with horses. We need another way.


 It seems cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 11:21:19 PM
 #28

http://freestateproject.org/ is one answer to it.

Well, yes, that's my "anti-boxing league," specifically, the Shire Society.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 06, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
 #29

What if you aren't in a ring and the other person (or group) is instigating it against your will, and every corner of the earth is dominated by such oppressors that have to get their nose bloodied before they learn not to try and bully you?

Well, then it would be in my best interest to gather with a large enough group of people who also do not want to box that we can prevent being forced into a match.

I think we're straining the limits of this analogy.

What if the 'ring' is the world and there is no place to run and avoid this confrontation?  What if the only way to beat a bully is to stand your ground and let it be made clear that you are to be respected?

This is really, quite well I may add, touching on the nature of the present Libertarians who are doing everything they can to alienate themselves.  Their ego-ideal is to live 'off-the-grid' on a totally self-enclosed little bubble.  This is like admitting defeat in my book, as it simply writes off civilization as a lost cause in the futile, naive and child-like belief that you can simply live in your tree-fort for the rest of all time.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 06, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
 #30

http://freestateproject.org/ is one answer to it.

That's one answer to it, yes.

But if that's an answer then this is also an answer:  "adfglilivwelkcvuibmeqilcviowerasdfdfzcv".  The reason that that is an answer is because both are worth about the same in regard to actual reality.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 06, 2012, 06:36:24 PM
 #31

This look like an interesting book, but it's not a new idea. Jefferson warned us about them. Kubrick threaded this theme throughout his films. It's not a conspiracy though, it's just who we are. Just being in this forum you are helping to enlighten the future about the nature of money. It's always technology that gives us progress.

It clearly shouldn't be a new idea, but here in the Western World oligarchy and the rule of wealth has been largely conditioned out of us, and it wasn't an accident or a coincidence.  This book firmly re-establishes ancient to contemporary history showing that oligarchy is alive and well and must be considered as one of the central tenants, one of the prime movers for modern political realities.  To not understand it is to be forever politically blind and flailing in the dark.


It's funny.  One of my fav British actors was discussing a trip to LA for talks in a US remake of the show he was staring in.

He mentioned to the Studio exec's/writers that one of the qualities that made the British show so popular was the depiction of characters in well defined class stations.  That the characters were real and relate-able.

The Studio people said in response, "That wont work in America.  We have a classless society."


It's amazing how people's perception can be so disconnected from reality.

+1

LOL, we sure do.  Everyone's just a future billionaire.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
niemivh
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196



View Profile
August 06, 2012, 06:37:11 PM
 #32

This look like an interesting book, but it's not a new idea. Jefferson warned us about them. Kubrick threaded this theme throughout his films. It's not a conspiracy though, it's just who we are. Just being in this forum you are helping to enlighten the future about the nature of money. It's always technology that gives us progress.

It clearly shouldn't be a new idea, but here in the Western World oligarchy and the rule of wealth has been largely conditioned out of us, and it wasn't an accident or a coincidence.  This book firmly re-establishes ancient to contemporary history showing that oligarchy is alive and well and must be considered as one of the central tenants, one of the prime movers for modern political realities.  To not understand it is to be forever politically blind and flailing in the dark.


It's funny.  One of my fav British actors was discussing a trip to LA for talks in a US remake of the show he was staring in.

He mentioned to the Studio exec's/writers that one of the qualities that made the British show so popular was the depiction of characters in well defined class stations.  That the characters were real and relate-able.

The Studio people said in response, "That wont work in America.  We have a classless society."


It's amazing how people's perception can be so disconnected from reality.


People also say that in Australia but they forget we are still a monarchy. Just before the Queen visited Victoria last year they crushed the Occupy Melbourne protest so she wouldnt see the tents in city square.

You see this and realise as soon as you try and fight back the ruling class will trample you with horses. We need another way.


 It seems cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

Problem with Occupy being, of course:

*  No Program
*  No Leadership
*  No political strategy

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
August 06, 2012, 06:44:26 PM
 #33

What if you aren't in a ring and the other person (or group) is instigating it against your will, and every corner of the earth is dominated by such oppressors that have to get their nose bloodied before they learn not to try and bully you?

Well, then it would be in my best interest to gather with a large enough group of people who also do not want to box that we can prevent being forced into a match.

I think we're straining the limits of this analogy.

What if the 'ring' is the world and there is no place to run and avoid this confrontation?  What if the only way to beat a bully is to stand your ground and let it be made clear that you are to be respected?

Did I say anything about running? No.

http://freestateproject.org/ is one answer to it.

Well, yes, that's my "anti-boxing league," specifically, the Shire Society.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!