Got ROI in 40 days with my Antminer S3+

[adaseb]

Back in January I ended up buying a couple of used Antminers. The individual decided that his power bill was too high and with BTC hitting ~$166 he decided to cut his losses and sell them to me at only $75 each. This was in Canadian funds.

Since that time I made a little over 0.40BTC with those 2 miners and today I took profit and they paid for themselves.

I am so happy that the risk I took ended up paying off. Even with free electricity it was still kind of scary buying mining equipment with difficulty hitting new highs and BTC hitting new lows.

So for new miners out there, YES you can still make money mining with a little bit of risk and luck.

[1715079314]

1715079314

[Finksy]

Back in January I ended up buying a couple of used Antminers. The individual decided that his power bill was too high and with BTC hitting ~$166 he decided to cut his losses and sell them to me at only $75 each. This was in Canadian funds.

Since that time I made a little over 0.40BTC with those 2 miners and today I took profit and they paid for themselves.

I am so happy that the risk I took ended up paying off. Even with free electricity it was still kind of scary buying mining equipment with difficulty hitting new highs and BTC hitting new lows.

So for new miners out there, YES you can still make money mining with a little bit of risk and luck.

Congratulations!  As far as small scale and home miners go, as Canadians we are very fortunate.  We get relatively cheap power compared to many parts of the world, the heat they provide for the winter helps offset a huge chunk of the power bill (not applicable in your case w/ "free" power, but still nice to keep toasty ) and the weak CDN dollar has actually made our miners more profitable in comparison.

Welcome to Neverland, where people can actually ROI and profit from mining

[neegeeboo]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

[notlist3d]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

Also curious how are you getting "free" electricity.

[Bananana]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

Also curious how are you getting "free" electricity.

Its winter, so its consider free electricity cause you need the heat.

[Enzyme]

Back in January I ended up buying a couple of used Antminers. The individual decided that his power bill was too high and with BTC hitting ~$166 he decided to cut his losses and sell them to me at only $75 each. This was in Canadian funds.

Since that time I made a little over 0.40BTC with those 2 miners and today I took profit and they paid for themselves.

I am so happy that the risk I took ended up paying off. Even with free electricity it was still kind of scary buying mining equipment with difficulty hitting new highs and BTC hitting new lows.

So for new miners out there, YES you can still make money mining with a little bit of risk and luck.

Free heating while making money, what more could you want

[sbogovac]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

Also curious how are you getting "free" electricity.

Its winter, so its consider free electricity cause you need the heat.

No such thing, even when using the heat. Heating on electricity by mining is still less efficient then dedicated heating devices (especially when they use other energy sources than electricity...)

PS I'm guessing OP meant his parents, some institute, an office, his work or a squat or who-/whatever else is stuck with the electric bill (still not free...).

[bitcoin4eva]

Congratulations! I'm awaiting for my ROI from my 2 S3's I bought a month ago. Shouldn't take long since electricity costs about 0.03$/kwh 

[RoadStress]

Title is misleading. You got ROI with a second hand S3, not with a new one...

[Bitcoin++]

Same here in Europe. When it's cold and I anyway would need electric heating, I turn on miners. For every 1 EUR spent on electricity I get back around 50 cents.

[sbogovac]

Same here in Europe. When it's cold and I anyway would need electric heating, I turn on miners. For every 1 EUR spent on electricity I get back around 50 cents.

And if you would use a space heater in stead of a miner you would be using 25 cents (instead of 1 EUR) for that same amount of heat, still losing 25 cents on mining... Heat is a byproduct of mining, remember?

[adaseb]

So much hate in this thread I don't understand why.

YES its with a second hand S3, its not smart buying any new miners and paying retail.

and YES its with free electricity, its not smart mining if you are paying for electricity.

[sbogovac]

[...]and YES its with free electricity[...]

No such thing.

[RoadStress]

So much hate in this thread I don't understand why.

YES its with a second hand S3, its not smart buying any new miners and paying retail.

and YES its with free electricity, its not smart mining if you are paying for electricity.

Why do you take is as hate? I am just point out the reality. It's not about hate, it's about not being misleading.

[NeuroticFish]

Unexpected happy story, nice to hear.
But yeah, I guess that the reason is the free electricity.

Good luck and happy mining!

[sbogovac]

Unexpected happy story, nice to hear.
But yeah, I guess that the reason is the free electricity.

Good luck and happy mining!

There is no such thing as free electricity. Either the cost are diverted to someone else, or the electricity is plain stolen. Either way not really a "happy story" for the one paying the electricity... eventually...

Example: even if mom/dad is paying the electric bill, they (all, incl. OP) would be better off just giving OP the money being spent on that electricity...

[NeuroticFish]

Unexpected happy story, nice to hear.
But yeah, I guess that the reason is the free electricity.

Good luck and happy mining!

There is no such thing as free electricity. Either the cost are diverted to someone else, or the electricity is plain stolen. Either way not really a "happy story" for the one paying the electricity... eventually...

Example: even if mom/dad is paying the electric bill, they (all, incl. OP) would be better off just giving OP the money being spent on that electricity...

If he's stealing the power, then it's bad.
If he's living with his parents and uses the power they pay for, then it's bad.
But what if his dad built a small water / wind "mill" in the backyard and that produces the power?

Why do you assume people guilty just like that?

I still hope for a good and fair story.

[sbogovac]

[...]
But what if his dad built a small water / wind "mill" in the backyard and that produces the power?

Why do you assume people guilty just like that?[...]

Even a water/wind mill or solar panels have costs; the building costs (both material as well as time/effort) and operating costs (maintenance et cetera) have to be taken into account...

So... to get to the second question:

Since we established there is no such thing as "free electricity"; asked and answered... (and this was actually the polite answer).


But... I am very much open to what OP has to say about it... 

[NeuroticFish]

Even a water/wind mill or solar panels have costs; the building costs (both material as well as time/effort) and operating costs (maintenance et cetera) have to be taken into account...

Interesting that you "forgot" to take into account the point of ROI in that case too.

But... I am very much open to what OP has to say about it...  Grin

Let's.

[sbogovac]

[...] Interesting that you "forgot" to take into account the point of ROI in that case too.[...]

No, I didn't... Even if the building costs already have been amortised it still has to be taken into account... And then there's still the operating costs... Hence - again - no such thing as "free electricity"... 

[mavericklm]

what if he is heating his house only with electricity!?!? then is ''free''!

lucky you to find cheap miners

[sbogovac]

what if he is heating his house only with electricity!?!? then is ''free''!

lucky you to find cheap miners

Did you even read the topic?

Already went into that.

Please read before writing...  

Same here in Europe. When it's cold and I anyway would need electric heating, I turn on miners. For every 1 EUR spent on electricity I get back around 50 cents.

And if you would use a space heater in stead of a miner you would be using 25 cents (instead of 1 EUR) for that same amount of heat, still losing 25 cents on mining... Heat is a byproduct of mining, remember?

[mavericklm]

what if he is heating his house only with electricity!?!? then is ''free''!

lucky you to find cheap miners

Did you even read the topic?

Already went into that.

Please read before writing...  

Same here in Europe. When it's cold and I anyway would need electric heating, I turn on miners. For every 1 EUR spent on electricity I get back around 50 cents.

And if you would use a space heater in stead of a miner you would be using 25 cents (instead of 1 EUR) for that same amount of heat, still losing 25 cents on mining... Heat is a byproduct of mining, remember?

oh yeah! he said that he steals the energy from your house!

[sbogovac]

[...] oh yeah! he said that he steals the energy from your house!

Does it matter who is the victim?  

EDIT: nevermind, rhetorical question. What matters: no such thing as free electricity.

[mavericklm]

[...] oh yeah! he said that he steals the energy from your house!

Does it matter who is the victim?  

EDIT: nevermind, rhetorical question. What matters: no such thing as free electricity.

If you have a story behind all this crap of yours, why don't you make your own thread?!?!
is it nice to crap in his thread? do you know his story to shove shit on our throats?

play nice

[coinpr0n]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

Also curious how are you getting "free" electricity.

Its winter, so its consider free electricity cause you need the heat.

Ftw. Wow, nice country, nice people and a friendly government (or are these privately owned electric companies). Anyway, ROI in just over a month is great. It's all fun and games now.

[Salomon12]

adaseb - thanks for the information. interesting to know that you made back your initial investment which isn't a bad idea. if you don't mind me asking, free power as in solar?


I am also in the market looking for used equipment and would like to go this route as I do have free power from testing equipment at our office with Air Conditioned cage for equipment...

[sbogovac]

[...]If you have a story behind all this crap of yours, why don't you make your own thread?!?!
is it nice to crap in his thread? do you know his story to shove shit on our throats?

play nice

Because it is misleading. Just a few examples:

a. it gives others a wrong impression; providing them with motivation to do the same on wrong assumptions...

b. he could be having ulterior motives; for instance he is selling Antminer's himself and trying to mislead people into believing this...

c. he could be plain stupid, not understanding some basic economics and therefore needs correction as this is a public thread, remember?

Further more: where is your prove of me "crapping" anywhere? Have I been purposefully hurtful? Off-topic? Told things that are untrue? Whatever dude...

[sbogovac]

[...] free power as in solar? [...]

And here's the next mislead soul... No such thing as "free electricity"... Please read...

[...]
But what if his dad built a small water / wind "mill" in the backyard and that produces the power?[...]

Even a water/wind mill or solar panels have costs; the building costs (both material as well as time/effort) and operating costs (maintenance et cetera) have to be taken into account...[...]

[Salomon12]

sbogovac, sorry if you think I'm mislead. Knowing OP's initial free would be nice to clarify and quench both your hard hand on answers as well insight the rest. Yes there is the initial investment for "solar" power panels (etc) but once purchased its done, no turning back.

However in my case, as the power is not paid by me then I consider it free. With a dedicated room for equipment testing and tinkering then what else can a enthusiast want.

[sbogovac]

sbogovac, sorry if you think I'm mislead. Knowing OP's initial free would be nice to clarify and quench both your hard hand on answers as well insight the rest. Yes there is the initial investment for "solar" power panels (etc) but once purchased its done, no turning back.

However in my case, as the power is not paid by me then I consider it free. With a dedicated room for equipment testing and tinkering then what else can a enthusiast want.

No problem there, as long as the one who invested in the solar panels is aware (especially because of the accelerated break down - of the batteries especially) and it is not "done" there are still maintenance fees (unless the owner chooses not to maintain them, which would be a pity because of diminished generation of electricity and more rapid write off thus higher costs).

You can consider it free, but it is not free... ever. (And it's misleading to others.)

[dogie]

Just curious, how much on avg do Canadians pay for electricity?

Also curious how are you getting "free" electricity.

Its winter, so its consider free electricity cause you need the heat.

No such thing, even when using the heat. Heating on electricity by mining is still less efficient then dedicated heating devices (especially when they use other energy sources than electricity...)

PS I'm guessing OP meant his parents, some institute, an office, his work or a squat or who-/whatever else is stuck with the electric bill (still not free...).

Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

[sbogovac]

[...]100% agreed. Some people should get a sleep, then see the life is more beautiful than proving a point.

Not about any "point". It's simply misleading - to both yourself and especially to others - considering it "free" electricity.

[sbogovac]

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

I expected more from you Dogie, even though you do represent Bitmain you should know better: Heat is only a byproduct from mining so by definition is always less efficient than using dedicated heating devices. Leaving those calculations out of your considerations is stupid at best and misleading at worst...

[adaseb]

My electricity technically isn't free, its more like a fixed cost thats included with my other utilities, whether I use 1kwh or 1000kwh it all costs the same. And yes in the winter typically in old buildings many have to use electricity to heat their apartments because insulation is very bad and the built-in heaters don't work very well.

In my area many old buildings are like this probably because we have the cheapest electricity rates in north america.


My buddy is a student at the university and he gets free electricity at his dorm. My IT friend gets free electricity with his lease at work. So I have no idea why everybody is upset because I have the advantage of " free electricity".

The point of this thread wasn't to brag but to show that its actually possible to make money with mining. Even if I had to pay for electricity I would of got ROI soon anyways.

I would never be mining if 75% of my mining revenue went straight to pay my power bill, it just doesn't make sense. I would rather sell the miners and buy BTC directly.

[sbogovac]

Thanks for the clarification adaseb. Great/sweet deal!!!

Just one tip: check your lease (if there is one, or Canadian jurisprudence on the matter). There are often clauses (or previous rulings) that determine some kind of "fair use" policy. If the owner / rent agency considers there has been used too much electricity they might be able to charge you for it... That would not be a pleasant surprise.

Sorry for dragging this out, that was not my intention, but some people just insisted to keep reacting instead of awaiting your - quite plausible (same here BTW; my all-in-rented-office is also heated by several S3's) - explanation!

Thanks and good luck!!!  

[sbogovac]

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

Any idea on a comparison to standard electric home heating system?

That comparison would be easy if we had numbers/measurements on the heat production of an S3, but...

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

[...]Heat is only a byproduct from mining so by definition is always less efficient than using dedicated heating devices.[...]

[MrTeal]

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

Any idea on a comparison to standard electric home heating system?

That comparison would be easy if we had numbers/measurements on the heat production of an S3, but...

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

[...]Heat is only a byproduct from mining so by definition is always less efficient than using dedicated heating devices.[...]

No, a Bitcoin miner is essentially 100% efficient at converting electricity into heat, just as a standard electrical heater is. If you were really pedantic you could say that an S3 creates a couple milliwatts of light and some of that might escape through a window, or if some acoustic energy isn't absorbed by the house and you can hear it outside that might be a small loss, or that the slight increase in home internet bandwidth used by your miner could cause a slight loss of power into your phone/cable/fibre line (debatable), but that's about it.

Any idea on a comparison to standard electric home heating system?

I believe when I calculated it I figured I could discount ~CAD0.03/kWh due to offsetting natural gas usage, but this was a couple years ago.
Just look up the energy in a cubic meter of natural gas (37.3MJ), multiply that by your furnace efficiency to get the amount of energy imparted imparted into your home, and then divide your gas cost by that number to get your energy cost in $/MJ.
For me, that's $0.0078/MJ.
For electricity, I pay $0.138/kWh. One kWh = 3.6MJ, so I pay $0.03833/MJ

IE, even with 92% furnace efficiency take into account, gas is ~5x more efficient than electric for me.

[MrTeal]

So I live in a place with only electric heat as an option, I would save more on using Asics to heat my home than the standard heater and make BTC off them?

If you use electric heat, your heating cost will be exactly the same whether you use a baseboard heater, oil filled heater, or Bitcoin miner. With the miner you will earn BTC from them, but you'll have to deal with (potentially) more noise.

[dogie]

[...] Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

I expected more from you Dogie, even though you do represent Bitmain you should know better: Heat is only a byproduct from mining so by definition is always less efficient than using dedicated heating devices. Leaving those calculations out of your considerations is stupid at best and misleading at worst...

Um. 99.99% of the energy into a processor gets exhausted as heat, the rest is vibration -> heat or EM radiation -> heat. 'Mining' is a byproduct of flicking transistors between 1 and 0, utilising electricity and outputting heat.

tldr, heat.

[adaseb]

I think 95% of the energy is dissipated as heat, the rest is processing power, light, and fan noise.

[MrTeal]

I think 95% of the energy is dissipated as heat, the rest is processing power, light, and fan noise.

As dogie mentioned, the processing power does get turned into heat. The energy produces something we consider valuable so we measure efficiency, but it's still just turning electricity to heat. If you're playing a crappy video game and your computer is drawing 200W, it's not like you're turning 195W to heat and 5W to fun, but if you bought a better game you could turn only 190W to heat and 10W to fun. Energy would actually have to escape your building in order for you to lose efficiency.
So, you can actually lose a miniscule amount of energy to radiated EM (light or possibly unintended RF emissions) and to sound. It is incredibly minor though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_power
For example, for a hemispherical sound distribution (IE, in free space but with a floor) 62dB at 1m (like an Antminer S5) is a sound power level of 70dB. Look at the table in the Wikipedia article; the actual power in 70db SWL is 0.00001W. That's 10 microwatts.

[klondike_bar]

Same here in Europe. When it's cold and I anyway would need electric heating, I turn on miners. For every 1 EUR spent on electricity I get back around 50 cents.

And if you would use a space heater in stead of a miner you would be using 25 cents (instead of 1 EUR) for that same amount of heat, still losing 25 cents on mining... Heat is a byproduct of mining, remember?

that makes no sense. a bitcoin miner is no different from an electric space heater, and both produce 1w of heat for 1w of power usage.
however, a space heater might better distribute the warmth


edit: realised pages 2 and 3 of this thread are almost exclusively filled with confusion over electricity->heat. theres no magical physics that causes computing power to somehow NOT produce heat. the results of a computation are not a form of energy - the energy is turned to heat in the process of hashing, but does not somehow send 1w into the internet with every share.

Dogie is right - 99.99% of energy used is directly translated to heating the room holding the bitcoin miner. whatever energy leaves as noise/light/vibration will be converted to heat through its interaction with the air/walls/floor.

[dmeter]

[...] Interesting that you "forgot" to take into account the point of ROI in that case too.[...]

No, I didn't... Even if the building costs already have been amortised it still has to be taken into account... And then there's still the operating costs... Hence - again - no such thing as "free electricity"... 

yes i have free eletricity. i have contract if i used or not used 7 kwh power i must pay minimum 7 kwh. hotel in winter is totaly empty. i must pay 730$ month used or not used 5100 kwh.
this is free energy.
Also this year i instal more solar panel and new cat generator 500 kw to lovering peak to 100 kwh. because every kwh peak i must pay 11$ month minimum this 730 $
For one night club have installed 700 kwh and 500  kwh cat gen set. because  peak energy must pay 132000 $ year club work only 90 days year.

[tss]

i guess if you buy an antminer s1 second hand for $20 with free electric you'll roi even faster.

[sbogovac]

[...]
Dogie is right - 99.99% of energy used is directly translated to heating the room holding the bitcoin miner. whatever energy leaves as noise/light/vibration will be converted to heat through its interaction with the air/walls/floor.

And you're forgetting the space heater will have a thermostat which actually tells the heater to stop producing once the desired temp. is achieved. As I said, the space heater is by definition more efficient at heating a space than a miner. <- period

[sbogovac]

[...] Interesting that you "forgot" to take into account the point of ROI in that case too.[...]

No, I didn't... Even if the building costs already have been amortised it still has to be taken into account... And then there's still the operating costs... Hence - again - no such thing as "free electricity"... 

yes i have free eletricity. i have contract if i used or not used 7 kwh power i must pay minimum 7 kwh. hotel in winter is totaly empty. i must pay 730$ month used or not used 5100 kwh.
this is free energy.
Also this year i instal more solar panel and new cat generator 500 kw to lovering peak to 100 kwh. because every kwh peak i must pay 11$ month minimum this 730 $
For one night club have installed 700 kwh and 500  kwh cat gen set. because  peak energy must pay 132000 $ year club work only 90 days year.

No you don't. You are confusing recovering your losses (something you paid and would not use) with getting something for free.

As I said (and simple physics/economics dictate): no. such. thing. as. free. electricity. <-period

[Mikestang]

Since that time I made a little over 0.40BTC with those 2 miners and today I took profit and they paid for themselves.

I am so happy that the risk I took ended up paying off. Even with free electricity it was still kind of scary buying mining equipment with difficulty hitting new highs and BTC hitting new lows.

So for new miners out there, YES you can still make money mining with a little bit of risk and luck.

Getting away from the heat discussion...

What pool did you mine in?  Congrats on the ROI.

[MrTeal]

[...]
Dogie is right - 99.99% of energy used is directly translated to heating the room holding the bitcoin miner. whatever energy leaves as noise/light/vibration will be converted to heat through its interaction with the air/walls/floor.

And you're forgetting the space heater will have a thermostat which actually tells the heater to stop producing once the desired temp. is achieved. As I said, the space heater is by definition more efficient at heating a space than a miner. <- period

That is really a separate thing. Not having an integrated thermostat makes the miner less convenient to use, but it would be relatively trivial to control voltage and clocks based on an outside temperature to increase efficiency and lower power draw, and even simpler to just shut it off. That doesn't mean it is by definition less efficient period. For example, my heating baseload is such that I could run 10kW of gear 24/7 without ever turning it off for 6 months of the year and my house would still need additional heating on top of that. For every X kWh the miners consume, I directly get a reduction of Y cubic meters of gas that I don't have to purchase.

[ajw7989]

Congrats on the ROI. You got them for a really good price and got lucky with the difficulty plateau for that period. Enjoy making all profits now or selling them for a quick profit.

[KaChingCoinDev]

Congratulations! Rarely do us home miners turn a profit. For me, it was the other way . When will you upgrade to a newer miner? Just wondering.

[M28MmickT]

Title is misleading. You got ROI with a second hand S3, not with a new one...

To be fair to him it does not say he got it with a new Antminer s3  but yeh i see the trouble it took to open the thread and read a few lines to find out he did indeed roi on a s3.

Free electric op that is really good here in the uk without miners etc i am paying £35 a week so around $50 would hate to think what mining equipment would cost me 

[Bitminer1224]

Thats amazing man!   Such insane profits has to drag more attention to btc.

[KaChingCoinDev]

i guess if you buy an antminer s1 second hand for $20 with free electric you'll roi even faster.

Not neccessarily. With the adjustment of difficulty every 2 weeks, you would probably roi within 55 days.

[tss]

i guess if you buy an antminer s1 second hand for $20 with free electric you'll roi even faster.

Not neccessarily. With the adjustment of difficulty every 2 weeks, you would probably roi within 55 days.

Ceteris paribus, all else being equal,
75 cad is 60 usd,
s3 around 450gh, @ $60usd
s1 around 180gh, @ $20usd

2.5 to 1 hash ratio but 3 to 1 price ratio :-)

[mavericklm]

yeah but is it really worth all the trouble for 180gh/s?

by exaggeration:  would you like 1.8th/s or 4.5th/s?
s1 has a little bit higher wattage
s1 is a bit louder
resell value of s1 is still ok because of need for heating in the northern hemisphere. but in the summer only dumb noobs will buy an s1
maybe you need to put transport in there. when you want to resell the s1, because of it's low speed, some ppl will say i better get s3 'cause the shipping is the same

so in the end s1 is very ok for free electricity, but i'd say it's not worth the trouble

[adaseb]

I looked into the S1 but even if I got offered the units for free they weren't worth the trouble. I rather just turn on my GPUs.

They are noisy and even if you have free electricity they make 180Gh/s and use over 400Watts. Not worth using up a PSU.

Maybe if I had a bunch of server PSUs where I could power 3 of them with one unit.