Greece now targets tax evaders! next step cyprus style!

[Erdogan]

I would have hoped the Greek government would focus on wealth creation, but that's clearly not the case. I wouldn't like to be in Greece to start a business.

Exactly, they are into wealth destruction. It isn't looking good.

The discussion is always about austerity, the problem is that austerity is a politician word, which has two meanings: Smaller state, or the people consuming less. Obviously, when you create wealth and prosperity, the people can consume more (and save more if they want). When the state consumes more through absurd giant projects ellegedly for the public good, and give out free stuff to secure their power, the opposite happens: poverty.

[1715388453]

1715388453

[1715388453]

1715388453

[Possum577]

Austerity is a great thing, people/households do it all the time by going on a budget.

The problem is getting an entire Nation (or a significant majority) to agree to and adhere to it. Politicians only get praise if the implement laws and new programs, these often cost money...Government spending is bred with new politicians. Who wants to get elected to office and then just monitor what everyone did before he/she took the office? No one, it's a human weakness.

[dinofelis]

Austerity is a great thing, people/households do it all the time by going on a budget.

The problem is getting an entire Nation (or a significant majority) to agree to and adhere to it. Politicians only get praise if the implement laws and new programs, these often cost money...Government spending is bred with new politicians. Who wants to get elected to office and then just monitor what everyone did before he/she took the office? No one, it's a human weakness.

This is the heart of the problem of public finance: you get personal advantage (re-election) if you spend other people's money (taxpayer money).  This is why politicians like so much the Keynesian deficit-spending idea (without taking the reverse of the Keynesian doctrine which is contraction when things go well)  Each time the one deciding is not the one paying, you will have abuse, corruption, and financial disaster in the long run.

The only way I can see public finance controlled, is with a strictly no-debt system: all expenses of the past year make up the bill, and are then, with a distribution key which is part of the political choice, billed to the taxpayers.  If you are then a politician distributing a lot of "gifts" to your electors, then they will find it on their taxpayer bill at the end of the year.

If you "invest" in billions of "social welfare", then at the end of the year there will be a line on the bill where you pay your tax contribution due to that welfare program.

[Kprawn]

What will it solve? .....should be the question.

You can gather more tax, if you find the tax evaders, BUT ....... if the government corruption and bad spending continue... you would end up with the same result.

More tax income only delay the problem...... the solution would be to address the bad spending habits and the insatiable need for debt.

[countryfree]

Anyway, rising taxes or fighting tax evasion will have the same outcome: less money for consumption. Fewer goods will be sold, and income from VAT will fall. Greece is possibly doomed. The risk is that they might look at Russia or China for help. The Greeks would then learn the hard way that nothing is free.

[Amph]

they should have targeting evaders much better before their crisis not only now, prevention is always better, but no one "use" it apparently

[Bytty]

Tax evasion sounds like the national sport there. If a culture of non paying develops then a price eventually has to be paid further down the line. That's happening now. It's shit, but taxes ain't for fun. Some of them do go towards creating a functioning country.

Not just evading taxes, also playing the system to get subsidies/benefits.

Richer people have the resources and advisers to play the system.

Not just richer people, a considerable percentage of Greeks abuse the system, like, a lot, they were living the dream, getting subsidies. working 5h days and evading taxes, how were they paying for this? Debt!

Europeans in the Union were the ones paying for their life style...

[Snipe85]

Anyway, rising taxes or fighting tax evasion will have the same outcome: less money for consumption. Fewer goods will be sold, and income from VAT will fall. Greece is possibly doomed. The risk is that they might look at Russia or China for help. The Greeks would then learn the hard way that nothing is free.

The main problem is Greeks are not the only ones with a dying economy. Look what's going on in Spain for instance and it's even worse in the countries with high migration rates like Romania or Poland.
These countries are basically fighting the decreasing income (due to decreasing population and high unemployment) by increasing taxes. It won't work for long

[aso118]

they should have targeting evaders much better before their crisis not only now, prevention is always better, but no one "use" it apparently

It would help if they create a culture of tax compliance, at least now. While tax evasion may have been rampant in the past, it is really hurting the country now. Nothing wrong in going after the tax cheats. 

[bigtimespaghetti]

Theyre between a rock and a hard place. If they default its economic chaos, and if they stay with the Euro it's still economic chaos but perhaps slightly less disastrous. And that's if things actually go how they want.

But yeah, they need money. That's not a secret.

I think if you just look at the numbers, it is only a matter of time before they outright default. It's a dog and pony show to keep liquidity in their banks and roll over their current debt right now.

Next stop capital controls. Then the fat lady comes out.

[aso118]

Theyre between a rock and a hard place. If they default its economic chaos, and if they stay with the Euro it's still economic chaos but perhaps slightly less disastrous. And that's if things actually go how they want.

But yeah, they need money. That's not a secret.

If they default, it is going to be economic chaos for Europe and possibly the world, not just Greece.
If they stay with the Euro and take hard decisions to ensure payment, it is going to be economic chaos and hardships just in Greece.

They know that and are playing hardball. 

[picolo]

I don't think Greece have ever not targeted tax evaders or turned a blind eye to it just like pretty much every other nation doesn't (well, unless you've got connections. And the gov might not be able to take your coins away but they'll try and if they can't they can always lock you up in prison. You've always got to play by their rules sadly.

Greek like to have a lot of stuff from the governement but not pay much taxes.

[brekyrself]

"Account data at inspectors’ full disposal"

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_15/03/2015_548234

Big brother is here.  When will government's open their books for us to see?

[asuryan180]

I don't think Greece have ever not targeted tax evaders or turned a blind eye to it just like pretty much every other nation doesn't (well, unless you've got connections. And the gov might not be able to take your coins away but they'll try and if they can't they can always lock you up in prison. You've always got to play by their rules sadly.

Greek like to have a lot of stuff from the governement but not pay much taxes.

Without pointing to the minority, where i live they have ways around paying there taxes. They are the wealthiest in my area they own pretty much the main source of income of the town it is quite scarey to be honest. Not surprised they are now targeting these tax evaders maybe my country should do the same its ridiculous. 

[Snipe85]

I don't think Greece have ever not targeted tax evaders or turned a blind eye to it just like pretty much every other nation doesn't (well, unless you've got connections. And the gov might not be able to take your coins away but they'll try and if they can't they can always lock you up in prison. You've always got to play by their rules sadly.

Greek like to have a lot of stuff from the governement but not pay much taxes.

Without pointing to the minority, where i live they have ways around paying there taxes. They are the wealthiest in my area they own pretty much the main source of income of the town it is quite scarey to be honest. Not surprised they are now targeting these tax evaders maybe my country should do the same its ridiculous.  

Where are you from? I heard the corruption is the highest in the poorer countries. In EU those are the ones that used to be sucked dry by the Soviet Union.
There's a saying that the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. Those rich guys will always be able to afford a lawyer if they get caught or bribe someone, while the poor will be made into scapegoats and lose everything.

[asuryan180]

I don't think Greece have ever not targeted tax evaders or turned a blind eye to it just like pretty much every other nation doesn't (well, unless you've got connections. And the gov might not be able to take your coins away but they'll try and if they can't they can always lock you up in prison. You've always got to play by their rules sadly.

Greek like to have a lot of stuff from the governement but not pay much taxes.

Without pointing to the minority, where i live they have ways around paying there taxes. They are the wealthiest in my area they own pretty much the main source of income of the town it is quite scarey to be honest. Not surprised they are now targeting these tax evaders maybe my country should do the same its ridiculous.  

Where are you from? I heard the corruption is the highest in the poorer countries. In EU those are the ones that used to be sucked dry by the Soviet Union.
There's a saying that the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. Those rich guys will always be able to afford a lawyer if they get caught or bribe someone, while the poor will be made into scapegoats and lose everything.

I live in a so called 1st world country but no joke these guys out of 20 arcades own 15+, 10 night clubs they own 7+, the hotels loads of homes it is crazy they own a whole sea front main source of income for the town. I have to add they have worked to get there but they have also been very dodgy and evaded stupid amounts of tax, i am a plasterer and have worked for a few of the family's and they even try getting the cheap rate for quality work such greed. The saying the rich get richer and poor get poorer is very true and now that will be until the end of time

[Snipe85]

I live in a so called 1st world country but no joke these guys out of 20 arcades own 15+, 10 night clubs they own 7+, the hotels loads of homes it is crazy they own a whole sea front main source of income for the town. I have to add they have worked to get there but they have also been very dodgy and evaded stupid amounts of tax, i am a plasterer and have worked for a few of the family's and they even try getting the cheap rate for quality work such greed. The saying the rich get richer and poor get poorer is very true and now that will be until the end of time

I know such types. Some years ago one man bought a large part of land in the center of my home town and built a giant complex with a mall, a hotel and a number of restaurants and underground car parks and stuff. A normal people would be called rich if they owned an apartment in that complex, so building the whole thing required really big sum, comparable to a city's yearly income.
If you have this kind of money you can ignore the law, you snap your fingers and everything gets taken care of just like that.

[Erdogan]

Varoufakis said that you can not run an economy with surplus over any lenghth of time, the economy would crash. I happen to agree (for welfare states), the subjects will not accept it. The consequence is that a welfare state is not sustainable, they will all have to go at some point.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Varoufakis said that you can not run an economy with surplus over any lenghth of time, the economy would crash. I happen to agree (for welfare states), the subjects will not accept it. The consequence is that a welfare state is not sustainable, they will all have to go at some point.

Varoufakis knew that he wouldn't follow with Merkel's commandments after accepting the extra 4 months or so to keep applying the troika's measures, he's just getting more time. It will end up in Greece leaving the Euro anyway, they are waiting for other countries elections to create presure.

[manwithat]

Greece had to choose between go out of euro and create their own money (with huge inflaction) or stay in euro accepting the conditions. Syriza choosed euro, so they should work more and talk less.