How would a world with BTC as reserve currency look like?

[aso118]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

Downside to this - loss of monetary flexibility.
There was a period of time when essentially the reserves of central banks was held in the form of gold. The Bretton Woods system tied the exchange rate of every currency to a known weight of gold. The effect of using Bitcoin as reserve currency would essentially be something similar. We know that all countries decided to drop the peg of their currencies to gold eventually.

[1713531611]

1713531611

[1713531611]

1713531611

[deisik]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

[GreenStox]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.

Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.

They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.


The only thing bitcoin will do it create transparancy. Yes the CB thieves can't rob us anymore trough inflation, but the legitimate investors can still hold a good market share on it, so capitalists wont be hurt.

See bitcoin is pro capitalism, not anti, so all true capitalist can jump on the ship with us aswell. As for the looting thieves in the banking cartel, they have no choice but to find a more legit profession. The market no longer needs their looting service  

[deisik]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.

Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.

They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.

If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?

Also, how can bitcoin possibly take over, if these elites control both money flows and the sources that give birth to these flows?

[GreenStox]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.

Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.

They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.

If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?

They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.

Which i am fine with, because it will be atleast transparent and they cant do the QE anymore...

They will build all their derivative empire back, but this time it will be a legit foundation, and bitcoin will probably be a reserve currency, de facto, because they won't admit it, but de-facto it will be.

Yes some of them will feel threatened, and they will fight back, but eventually they will switch to bitcoin because it's just way more convenient, and people will become more productive this way...

[deisik]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.

Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.

They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.

If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?

They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.

This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?

[keystroke]

Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine,  catastrophes, etc) or warfare...

No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.

Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.

They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.

If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?

They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.

This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?

It's currently in an inflationary era of around 10% this year. Let's revisit the price around the time of the next halving. But yes, we are all guilty of wishful thinking (I know I am).

[countryfree]

That would bring huge changes, with countries unable to run a deficit.

That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.

You could still borrow BTC. Or work with a token that could be redeemed for  BTC.

Govt will always be running some kind of fractional reserve. Don't you think?

Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.

[aso118]

Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.

The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx

According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all. 

[Q7]

- What would need to change for this to happen?
I don't know if that is going to happen in the first place. If it were, maybe the biggest concern is on the security part and how cold storage will work out here. Also Bitcoin needs to have worldwide adoption. People's mindset and perception need to change and not to link bitcoin towards illegal activities.

- What would change once it actually is used for it?
Oh, certainly the price will go up. There will be huge demand.

- What would be the benefits of this?
Bitcoin will be an alternative to gold.

- What would be the downside of this?
Not that I can see.

[iamback]

It would be a central bank controlled currency.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 16: Euro is not an example that nations won't want a one-world reserve currency
From:    iamback
Date:    Mon, March 16, 2015 7:27 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

One world currency? Look at what has happened with Euro. The thing is that there will never be a consensus when it comes to block of nations adopting a common currency which differ culturally, politically, different economic strength and stance, historical background, foreign policy and the list goes on and on. I don't think that is possible unless bitcoin becomes a reserve currency to backup each nation's currency.

The Euro was not a reserve currency. It replaced the national currencies and it was a partial attempt at a European Community political union too with the Troika or at least the European Commission and EC Parliament.

Clearly the Euro + EC failure will be used to support the concept of a one-world reserve currency that is orthogonal to the domestic politics and currencies of nations. Because for example, Euro is toast because the banks were required to buy sovereign bonds of for example Greece, but Greece borrowed in Euros when there was an ingress of capital surge, but now have to pay it back while there is an egress of capital exodus, and Greece has no policy tools because they don't control the Euro central bank.

The nations of the world will agree to a one-world RESERVE currency (not a political union!) because they resent the free ride the USA has gotten by being in control of the world's reserve currency.

But please realize this is all just a ruse for the global banksters to have even more control and do even greater corruption in the future by cleverly hiding their central banking manipulation in "international policy objectives" just as the Fed is hiding their funding of the banksters in "domestic policy objectives".

It is one big charade that even Armstrong is gullible about.

The only way the powers-that-be will allow Bitcoin to become the one-world reserve currency is if they control it. As I said, Bitcoin is controlled by 1 - 4 mining peers (i.e. they have greater than 50% of Bitcoin's network hash rate), thus the powers-that-be will be able to easily control Bitcoin when they are ready to take over control.

Perhaps you don't understand that you could have 20 mining pools all secretly owned by the same entity. In proof-of-work, the variance of earnings is inversely related to the percentage of the network hash rate the mining pool has, thus users will always favor mining pools that have double digit percentage of the Bitcoin network hash rate.

Bitcoin will never be decentralized. I already quoted upthread my other thread that explains how to get true decentralization by having multiple competing currencies each pegged with an options market to the domaindominant unit-of-account. This will be the future of crypto-currency. But this will not be a dominant unit-of-account. The dominant unit-of-account will always be what is regulated, because fractional reserve banking (i.e. debt-based booms and busts) is demanded by the public that loves debt financiing and it is inherently a bankrupt financial system paradigm.

[keyscore44]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.

Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener

[BillyBobZorton]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.

Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener

They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.

[deisik]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.

Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener

They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.

Using a mixer should be considered as high treason with all ensuing consequences including confiscation of bitcoins. Splitting coins between several wallets should also entail a forfeit penalty without exceptions...

[iamback]

By definition a reserve currency means offchain transactions are not performed in reserve currency.

If instead the currency is used for all transactions, then there are no more national central banks and thus no FX reserves.

Please make up your mind what this is thread is about. The thread title says "reserve".

[countryfree]

Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.

The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx

According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all. 

It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.

[xmasdobo]

Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.

The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx

According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all. 

It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.

Greece will leave, then spain, then portugal, then italy...

[keyscore44]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.

Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener

They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.

You're probably right, there would be an uprising if people realized how much money our governments waste on a daily basis.

[iamback]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 17: the majority are ALWAYS wrong (Hillary Clinton)
Subject: Mar 17: the majority ALWAYS fights their own shadow (Hillary Clinton)
From:    iamback
Date:    Tue, March 17, 2015 10:36 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

...there would be an uprising if people realized how much money our governments waste on a daily basis.

No the people love all that spending. They would clamor to get their slice of the spending too.

And then blame “the 1%” for the problem, i.e. the “99% versus the 1%” Hegelian Dialectic (ain’t it hilarious to see the masses blaming their shadow and not realizing it).  

Politicians are also quite clever in hiding their sources of ill gotten wealth:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/17/the-majority-are-just-fools/

The Majority Are Just Fools

In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.

I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.

This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.

[deisik]

The Majority Are Just Fools

In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.

I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.

This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.

Why beat about the bush (no pun)? Did Hillary say something astonishingly new or truly insightful? Or is this society somehow more corrupt, and the majority of people are more sheep-like than they were through out the human history on average? If we see something today, does it mean that when we didn't see it, it didn't exist or happen?

These are actually rhetorical questions...