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Author Topic: PUTIN: Russia prepared to raise nuclear readiness over Crimea  (Read 1757 times)
Balthazar
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March 16, 2015, 05:45:30 PM
Last edit: March 16, 2015, 06:50:50 PM by Balthazar
 #21

I'm interested to know your take on Putin's admission that the soldiers in unmarked uniforms who took control of Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea were actually Russian troops
Admission of what? Maybe, admission of the Black Sea Fleet existence? Well... Maybe it sounds surprising but these troops are stationed there since 18 century.

despite denying for months that this was the case during and after the events.
Denying? Are you serious or it's just some kind of weird joke? Sorry, I'm asking because I really can't understand your intentions. If you're serious then tell me, please, what do you see on this picture.



I bet you've never seen it in the BBC reports. Wink

You can't just dismiss this as propaganda when the the statement comes from his own mouth.
Don't invent the propaganda and there won't be a necessity to dismiss it. Yep, it's really simple as the piece of cake. It's time to read The 1997 Black Sea Fleet Agreement, which obliges Black Sea Fleet to assist the local authorities in case of emergency situation. Another recommendation is to follow something except BBC or Gazeta Wyborcza. Then you would know what's really happening behind your window.
Nemo1024
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March 16, 2015, 05:52:07 PM
 #22

Let's have a complete picture then. He ordered it after the legitimate president of Ukraine was overthrown and attempted assassinated by the Nazis and after said Nazis started a march on Russian Crimea with the intent of full-scale ethnic cleansing. All he did was to defend the people who had been holding fort against the Ukrainian occupation of Crimea for the previous 23 years.

The documentary that was aired yesterday had a lot of information, some of it newly declassified - like the NATO military base in Feodosia, that was the only base where shots were fired, though even there no one got killed.
I wish someone would translate that doc to English, I simply don't have enough free time for it...  Undecided

As for the nuclear threat. It's the Cuban Missile crisis in reverse. Now it's USA threatening Russia along its Western borders with its massive exercises.
Russian Northern fleet and Western Army is on full military alert. A lone Russian rocket carrier has been dispatched to patrol the Black Sea. And Putin announced that the nuclear response is a possibility in case USA invades Russia.

Nazis? Not every one of Ukraine people that want to be in European Union is Nazi.

Balthazar covered the other issues that you raised. As for Nazis, I was talking specifically about Right Sector, and the NATO-trained forces that operated in Kiev and around Ukraine, suppressing anti-Maidan movement, their violent ambush on the bus convoi of people returning to Crimea from Kiev after and anti-Maidan demonstration, where 7 people were shot and killed outright, and 20 more are "missing" after an overnight manhunt. 4 of the 8 buses were burnt down. Look up the savageness of Korsun pogrom that was the harbinger of what people of Crimea were to expect from those, who violently took power in Kiev.




http://nahnews.com.ua/70139-koshmar-v-novorossii-nachalsya-s-korsunskogo-pogroma/

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
biggerbig
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March 16, 2015, 06:57:04 PM
 #23

Like I wrote earlier - search in different sources, not only in the Russian ones. As for Sevastopol - I didn't even mention that city and its not even the core case of this topic.
Souldream
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March 16, 2015, 06:58:04 PM
 #24


You've said that memorandum was signed. Ok, it has been signed, and so what? I can sign anything too, it can be some treaty on accession of Mars into Federation of Planets for example.  Grin


This is the real way of doing of Russian... ok ok we are ok ... 5 years laters , Hoo treaty ? WTF is this ? No way ... we do not care about treaty ...

And about all russian they are most funny ... why ? They do critics over West & USA ... and what Huh

The paradox of the Russian people ?
Once they have enough money ... they go to  the city to buy share, to invest in the London Stone, give birth in a Swiss clinic, put their kid in the English and Swiss schools ... and during holidays they go in in Nice/france ..and during Winter to Courchevelle or Gstaad in Switzerland , dring the best wines / champagnes / french cognacs, go on vacation in Tuscany, roll in big German car, use social networks of Uncle Sam ...

But when you read all they do not like West, USA ... but have full in their mouth everyday ....
criptix
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March 16, 2015, 07:40:09 PM
 #25

doesnt the memorandum make clear that ukraine only abolished their nuclear arsenal if the nuclear states promised not to intervene in any way and accept the sovereignty and integrity of the ukraine people?

well looks like a big joke now. also this might be a big step back regarding nuclear disarmament.
ukraine will be the prime example for nuclear weapon supporters...

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Balthazar
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March 16, 2015, 08:04:49 PM
Last edit: March 16, 2015, 09:36:44 PM by Balthazar
 #26

doesnt the memorandum make clear that ukraine only abolished their nuclear arsenal if the nuclear states promised not to intervene in any way and accept the sovereignty and integrity of the ukraine people?
Among some other things, package of agreements promised them ~$200 billion compensation for the renunciation of nuclear weapons. It didn't happen of course.

It was a scam right from the beginning, which explains why this memorandum isn't ratified by the participants. And now two of three scammers decided to remember about existence of this unratified paper... Seems legit.
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March 16, 2015, 08:11:01 PM
 #27

I'm interested to know your take on Putin's admission that the soldiers in unmarked uniforms who took control of Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea were actually Russian troops
Admission of what? Maybe, admission of the Black Sea Fleet existence? Well... Maybe it sounds surprising but these troops are stationed there since 18 century.

despite denying for months that this was the case during and after the events.
Denying? Are you serious or it's just some kind of weird joke? Sorry, I'm asking because I really can't understand your intentions. If you're serious then tell me, please, what do you see on this picture.



I bet you've never seen it in the BBC reports. Wink

You can't just dismiss this as propaganda when the the statement comes from his own mouth.
Don't invent the propaganda and there won't be a necessity to dismiss it. Yep, it's really simple as the piece of cake. It's time to read The 1997 Black Sea Fleet Agreement, which obliges Black Sea Fleet to assist the local authorities in case of emergency situation. Another recommendation is to follow something except BBC or Gazeta Wyborcza. Then you would know what's really happening behind your window.

I am talking specifically about the instance referred to in the news report posted in the OP about the documentary that aired on a Russian state TV. See, the problem is if it doesn't prove you right, you don't read it. That's why you stopped reading your own source that ultimately proved you wrong about Russia invading Sweden's airspace- because you thought it proved you right, so you didn't bother to read the rest of it. I'm not talking about the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea, I'm talking about those soldiers who were wearing ambiguous green uniforms and were hoisting Russian flags up at the military installations as Ukrainian forces abandoned them. As the West was saying those were Russian soldiers, Putin at the time said they weren't Russians. A month later, he said they were Russians, and he sent them there.

My only motivation is trying to gain a perspective other than what is commonly portrayed in the western media, as you keep asking people to do, that's why I asked your take on it as someone who is clearly pro-Russia. but you're so concerned with spinning this into something else to prove you're right about everything that it's clear that if I want an understanding of the other side, I need to get it from someone who is more level-headed or doesn't have so much invested in proving everything critical of Russia is propaganda.

There was no propaganda here to dismiss, there was Putin saying "those guys aren't Russians" only to later say "Yeah, they were Russians and I sent them there," and then me asking you how do you reconcile what turns out to be lies ("those guys aren't Russians") with what is currently coming out of the Kremlin in order to get to the truth?

Nemo1024
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March 18, 2015, 01:47:02 PM
 #28

Russian leadership never directly denied that special forces ensured that the referendum in Crimea could be conducted in a peaceful way, without bloody provocations and slaughter from Right Sector (as it later happened in Donetsk and Lugansk).

Remember the "polite people"? Russia's Minister of Defence Shojgu joked then that "it is silly to look for a black cat in a dark room, when the cat is not there, and especially if the cat is clever, courageous and polite". After the events, there was written a song, dedicated to the "polite people", and a fashion brand "polite people" was launched. Does it sound much like a denial? Smiley

What Russian government denied, was the presence of regular Russian army in excess of what was already stationed in Crimea under various agreements.

Do you know why the military bases in Crimea (except for the NATO base in Feodosia) were "taken" without a single shot being fired? Because the commanders of those bases asked to be "taken" so as to surrender with a clean judicial base. Later 90% of the personnel of those bases sworn allegiance to Russia, effectively switching side. The remaining 10% (mainly from West Ukraine) were let go and given time for them and their families to pack and conclude their business in Crimea. Does that sound like a forced take over?

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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