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Question: Do you trust yourself to manage your own private keys?
Yes, 100%, and I always will. - 129 (82.2%)
Yes, only because I don't yet trust bitcoin banks. - 19 (12.1%)
Not at all, I lose everything, or am not technical enough. - 2 (1.3%)
No, but someday I'd like to manage my own bitcoin and private keys. - 7 (4.5%)
Total Voters: 157

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Author Topic: Do you trust yourself to manage your own private keys?  (Read 6496 times)
Q7
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March 18, 2015, 12:24:30 PM
 #41

I think what draws the borderline here between banks and bitcoin vaults is mainly the regulations and the systems. Regulations because even though banks basically have their own way, they are still tied up to some form of control by governments. That depends on countries to countries. And plus, central banks can sometimes bail the same banks out to avoid total catastrophe. Bitcoins don't have that for sure. And on the systems, banks also have auditors to determine their stability and ratings so that's also another difference.

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Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
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Xapo
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March 18, 2015, 02:53:28 PM
 #42

The security is the major issues of Bitcoin usage, just heard coinapult hot wallet got hacked and lost 150BTC, so if you own a great amount of Bicoin, you'd better hiring professional Bitcoiner to manage your private key.
Hot wallet hacks will continue. It happened to bitstamp, it happened to Coinapult, and could happen to anyone, even with the best security experts. 150BTC is extremely minor, just like how Bitstamps hack was considered minor by them (they absorbed the damage, and no one lost a cent). Do you realize how much Visa/Mastercard lose to fraud on a daily basis? A good company will factor this into operational costs.

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March 18, 2015, 03:06:14 PM
 #43

You've only got to look at the last bailouts (eg. Iceland, UK, US) to know that storing fiat in a bank is not without risk. You may be 'protected' up to a certain amount but you still have to put a lot of trust into these centralized institutions.

I completely trust myself to look after my private keys, if anything thing happens to them it's my fault and noone elses. Zero red tape and zero regulation, if I lose them I don't expect to be bailed out by other peoples taxes.


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March 18, 2015, 03:12:10 PM
 #44


I just cannot see why people cannot just print out a paper wallet and laminate and store it in a safe place? This takes 10 minutes.  Shocked

I still choose to have this freedom and control over my own financial destiny.  Grin 
You absolutely can, but what is safe? A safety deposit box is the only truly safe place I can think of. Maybe you keep it in your safe at home? But then you move, like my father did, and his truck burst into flames on the side of the highway and he lost all his personal belongings. You have to assume that that laminated piece of paper would have been one of the things lost in the fire had he been a bitcoin guy. If you tell me to make a fireproof, private key, you're missing the point. All I'm saying is, I move every 2 years or so, and it scares me thinking to think that I need to be responsible for any single piece of property. With the exception of a ring (which recently broke, is sitting in a drawer at my mothers house, and currently at risk of being "tossed out") and a guitar, I don't have anything that is more than 10 years old. Things get lost. Things get out dated. Mothers throw things out. Especially tiny pieces of paper with 64 random digits on it.

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March 18, 2015, 03:21:14 PM
 #45


I just cannot see why people cannot just print out a paper wallet and laminate and store it in a safe place? This takes 10 minutes.  Shocked

I still choose to have this freedom and control over my own financial destiny.  Grin 
You absolutely can, but what is safe? A safety deposit box is the only truly safe place I can think of. Maybe you keep it in your safe at home? But then you move, like my father did, and his truck burst into flames on the side of the highway and he lost all his personal belongings. You have to assume that that laminated piece of paper would have been one of the things lost in the fire had he been a bitcoin guy. If you tell me to make a fireproof, private key, you're missing the point. All I'm saying is, I move every 2 years or so, and it scares me thinking to think that I need to be responsible for any single piece of property. With the exception of a ring (which recently broke, is sitting in a drawer at my mothers house, and currently at risk of being "tossed out") and a guitar, I don't have anything that is more than 10 years old. Things get lost. Things get out dated. Mothers throw things out. Especially tiny pieces of paper with 64 random digits on it.

So make 10 copies of your BIP38 paper wallets, bury them in ten places, take ten copies of your passphrase, bury them in ten places

you should be able to remember one of each places type and be safe
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March 18, 2015, 03:27:09 PM
 #46

You absolutely can, but what is safe? A safety deposit box is the only truly safe place I can think of. Maybe you keep it in your safe at home? But then you move, like my father did, and his truck burst into flames on the side of the highway and he lost all his personal belongings. You have to assume that that laminated piece of paper would have been one of the things lost in the fire had he been a bitcoin guy. If you tell me to make a fireproof, private key, you're missing the point. All I'm saying is, I move every 2 years or so, and it scares me thinking to think that I need to be responsible for any single piece of property. With the exception of a ring (which recently broke, is sitting in a drawer at my mothers house, and currently at risk of being "tossed out") and a guitar, I don't have anything that is more than 10 years old. Things get lost. Things get out dated. Mothers throw things out. Especially tiny pieces of paper with 64 random digits on it.

Multisig laminated paper wallets solve all these concerns. Or a hardware wallet with BIP 32 backed up in several locations(not as secure as using multisig but very secure).

One of the most secure methods of cold storage is to take create a multisig 2 of 3 paper wallet (This makes it easy- https://mycelium.com/entropy), add one of the keys to an encrypted password manager and destroy the physical representation, laminate the remaining 2 keys or engrave them on steel and hide one in your home or place in your fireproof safe, and the last key can be laminated and placed in an offsite relatives home, bank safety deposit box, or time capsule. This allows for an extremely high level of security and protection against user error or mistakes with a fairly easy way of retrieving your assets within a couple minutes if needed.

The average user can simply use a hardware wallet and backup it with BIP 32  and place that in a safe. People with larger savings that aren't technical can always hire a professional security consultant.  

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March 18, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
 #47

I trust myself.  After all my daily job is a Network Security Engineer, I think I will manage my own private keys.


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March 18, 2015, 03:38:50 PM
 #48

Right now I keep the keys. It's the only safe way right now.

If ever this area will get regulated and insured, I may switch to 3rd party, because my wife and children don't have to be tech oriented to get the benefit.
Right now, if something happens to my brain, the coins will be lost.

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March 18, 2015, 03:42:04 PM
 #49

I think keeping your keys is an extremely easy thing to do and yeah their may be new ways to do it but just as you keep other financial records it's just something you keep on top of.

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March 18, 2015, 06:42:48 PM
 #50

Keys ain't a problem keeping, the problem is storing them at a right/safe place.
I have seen viruses on PCs which steal them and the other day, you won't see your Bitcoins in your account just because you don't have some highly trusted Anti-Virus installed.

Storing them offline seems more secure to me than keeping them online with so many coins stored in a single key.
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March 18, 2015, 06:54:32 PM
 #51

this is a STUPID post from Xapo .. of course most people on bitcointalk trust themselves to manage their own private keys. Xapo and CoinBase are going after bitcoin newbies, not veteran users

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March 18, 2015, 07:05:34 PM
 #52

I agree with most people that they should secure the bitcoins themselves or at minimum only use banks that can prove they aren't the ultimate custodians of the keys through multisig or other methods.
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March 18, 2015, 07:14:20 PM
 #53

Criticism often comes to online wallet providers (Xapo, Coinbase, etc) saying, if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin. On the other hand, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either. The only possible difference, traditional banks have been around longer, and more people trust them. Many bitcoin users who criticize bitcoin vaults, store their cash in a traditional bank. Hypothetically, if Bank of America, or Barclay, or DeustcheBank announced they've invested millions into a highly protected, advanced, security architecture, would you trust someone to store it then? I personally don't trust myself to store my own bitcoin, for now. That could change in the future, but right now, I'm not a fan of the options, as the technology depends too much on my ability to maintain hardware, or, not lose something. I think about pictures, movies, files, documents, I had on my computer 10 years ago (and I always backed up), and I probably couldn't retrieve a single one without relying on a cloud-based service (Facebook, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.). I have no idea where the original photos of my trip to Indonesia in 2008 are, but I know that album is still easily accessible on Facebook. Are critics right to say, don't use an online wallet provider, it's not safe?
I think there is a legit market for "bitcoin banks" specially if you can make interest out of your holdings, but a lot of people are into bitcoin precisely because they want to be their own bank, but yeah you can fuck up big time if you lose your wallet.



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Trance
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March 18, 2015, 10:35:14 PM
 #54

Of course, why would one not trust themselves!!

Some people are so poor ALL they have is money
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March 19, 2015, 12:17:49 AM
 #55

I only trust myself to manage my private keys. Smiley
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March 19, 2015, 12:29:24 AM
 #56

Do you trust yourself to manage your own private keys?

Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I?

Criticism often comes to online wallet providers (Xapo, Coinbase, etc) saying, if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin. On the other hand, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either.

They are both true. I don't trust any online service to keep my funds. I don't trust banks. You know governments have ability to freeze your bank account, and take all of your money.

I think about pictures, movies, files, documents, I had on my computer 10 years ago (and I always backed up), and I probably couldn't retrieve a single one without relying on a cloud-based service (Facebook, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.). I have no idea where the original photos of my trip to Indonesia in 2008 are, but I know that album is still easily accessible on Facebook.

Cloud services, are you serious? Privacy = 0
I never use cloud services. Do you like it if some random people view your photos just because they want and can?
I rarely upload a photo of me on the internet. I don't want to keep any of my files in cloud services or random sites.

Are critics right to say, don't use an online wallet provider, it's not safe?

They are not safe enough to keep all your funds, but they are useful if you will use small amounts or use them in short time.

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March 19, 2015, 12:35:12 AM
 #57

Of course, why would one not trust themselves!!

Of course the question doesn't mean "do you trust you won't steal coin from yourself?", it means "do you think your tech-savvy enough to take all the security measures to keep your coins safe?".
So that's why some people could not trust themselves. I do as I posted earlier but of course a lot of people don't have the required knowledge to do it.
I hope this will change in the future, it's a requirement to get mass adoption while keeping the objective of bitcoin.

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March 19, 2015, 12:37:28 AM
 #58

Criticism often comes to online wallet providers (Xapo, Coinbase, etc) saying, if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin. On the other hand, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either. The only possible difference, traditional banks have been around longer, and more people trust them.

The reason why I store money in a bank is that
(i) I earn interest on my deposits
(ii) Even in case the bank goes bust, my deposit (up to a certain amount) is insured.

With Bitcoins, I would rather secure my private key on my own.


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March 19, 2015, 12:41:04 AM
 #59

Who can manage your keys better than you?

that way you can exactly know the risks you are taking and you can know how safe are your coins.

If you don't keep your coins safe it would your fault and nobody else


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March 19, 2015, 12:51:31 AM
 #60

I like how from Op's post I can feel that he thinks: people are little retarded and stupid and it would be better for them if they keep all theirs private keys and money in online storage. That way people would be 'free' from thinking about all that unnecessary stuff like 'how to secure my bitcoins'. After all someone can do this better for them...


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