Update: I Ordered 2x Antminer S5s and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt

[BitLeafClover]

…just kidding, the t-shirt is actually nice.

TL;DR Bitmain mailed me two broken miners in January. I sent them in for repairs 3 times, which took over a month. I lost out on ROI, asked for compensation, was send 20 mBTC, some stickers and a t-shirt.

Basic Narrative:
I received the miners on schedule. One wouldn’t turn on at all. The other turned on, but I was having a hard time finding the IP address to be able to log in and change settings (which was just my lack of familiarity with Antminers). I emailed Bitmain informing them of both problems. I was in contact with a technician in China which was a slow process (about 1 email a day).

After a few days and getting put in touch with Yoshi (locally, in the States), I was directed to mail in the controller board of Unit #1. I sent it in. While Unit #1 was getting replaced, I noticed that Unit #2 had been hashing at about ½ speed, implying that one of the chips wasn’t working. I checked in with Yoshi, who assured me that nothing was wrong.  While we were still going back and forth as to whether Unit #2 was functioning properly, Unit #1’s control board arrived.

Unfortunately, Unit #1’s control board arrived still broken (not being able to turn on). I asked Yoshi if I could just send both miners in. He said yes, again assuring me that nothing was wrong with Unit #2. I respectfully disagreed and asked for compensation for all the downtime/lost ROI. He agreed that he would consider it. I sent both in. Just over a week later, both units arrived along with 2x 10 mBTC paper wallets and some stickers.

Unit #1 was working and the control board was replaced. Unit #2, however, was still hashing at ½ speed. I called in this time and spoke with Billy. I asked if he would cover shipping costs this time and he agreed (I had paid for shipping the previous two times). I asked Billy about “more” appropriate compensation for all the issues and he agreed to look into it.

About a week and a half later Unit #2 arrived in working condition, along with a couple more stickers and a Bitmain black t-shirt. I spoke with Billy and Yoshi multiple times since and I have been declined further compensation.

Timeline:
12.27.2014    Placed order for 2x Bitmain Antminer S5s; scheduled ship date for 01.04.2015
01.04.2015    Units arrived
01.09.2015   Emailed Bitmain in China asking how to change settings
01.10.2015   Informed Bitmain that one miner was DOA; broken controller board
01.14.2015   Transferred to Yoshi
01.15.2015   Unit #1 controller board shipped to Bitmain; ~$25 shipping cost
01.20.2015   Unit #1 arrived at Bitmain
01.21.2015   Recognized unit #2 was hashing at ~600 Gh/s; emailed Yoshi
01.22.2015   Unit #1 controller board shipped from Bitmain
01.23.2015   Unit #1 controller board arrived; it still does not work; email Yoshi
01.26.2015   Units #1 and #2 shipped to Bitmain (not just controller board); ~$25 shipping cost
01.30.2015   Unit #1 and #2 arrived at Bitmain
02.XX.2015   Units #1 and #2 shipped from Bitmain
02.04.2015   Units #1 and #2 arrive; Unit #1 is fixed; Unit #2 is still hashing at ~600 Gh/s; Bitmain included 2x 10 mBTC paper wallets and stickers;  emailed Yoshi
02.05.2015   Unit #2 shipped to Bitmain; $0 (shipping covered by Bitmain)
02.11.2015   Unit #2 arrives at Bitmain
02.12.2015   Unit #2 shipped from Bitmain
02.16.2015   Unit #2 arrives from Bitmain; Unit #2 is fixed; Bitmain included stickers and a Bitmain t-shirt

02.17.2015   Began proper compensation request emails; multiple dropped emails by Bitmain and follow ups by myself
03.12.2015   Yoshi confirmed that no further compensation will be offered.

Narrative Part II:
When I received these in working condition, I began posting them for sale. I sold them in two separate sales, both to PokeyJones. He was made aware of everything above, in real time. He just received Unit #2 and has noticed that when comparing it to Unit #1 and an additional S5 he purchased, it is not running up to par. Issue can be found in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985159.msg10794078#msg10794078

He is currently emailing with Bitmain. We are also discussing where to go from here. I have offered him a full refund. However, we would both like to find proper resolution from Bitmain, so I can keep the sale and he can keep the miner.

Personal Debrief:
Obviously, I’m disappointed. I mined ~BTC.15 from the day I received the miners to the last day they were returned to me. By my estimation I would have generated ~BTC.86. Granted ~BTC.3 would have gone to electricity costs. But I also incurred ~$50 in shipping charges, which is more than I mined. And, no disrespect to PokeyJones, the circumstances pushed me into a position of having to sell the miners at a loss, which I did not plan on doing.

I’ve never heard of Antminers having such issues. Maybe it’s a fluke that both of these arrived defective. I have no idea. I hope that if anyone else has experienced any similar issues, they post about it. If I had seen anyone post anything similar, I would have started writing about this earlier. Even now I’m hesitant posting this, because it is far from my intention to post some victimization piece on my experience and I wouldn’t be happy for it to come off that way.

I tried working with Bitmain to sort this out as best I could. So now I’m turning it over to the forum. Thoughts and suggestions welcomed.

Cheers!
BLC

See thread for update

[1713896201]

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[1713896201]

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[philipma1957]

 You are not the first to be disappointed by bitmaintech with poor RMA service.
I suggest posting on this thread often and maybe they will send more coin to you. This may end up being closed by mods and you may be told to post in the main s-5 thread.
I wish you luck in your quest for better compensation.  I will say this is a polite thread and well written. Keep plugging away.

[BitLeafClover]

You are not the first to be disappointed by bitmaintech with poor RMA service.
I suggest posting on this thread often and maybe they will send more coin to you. This may end up being closed by mods and you may be told to post in the main s-5 thread.
I wish you luck in your quest for better compensation.  I will say this is a polite thread and well written. Keep plugging away.

Well, that's shameful. My impression was that Bitmain was the most reputable asic company out there. I was shocked that Yoshi would even tell me that my miner was working when it clearly wasn't - like somehow he was going to convince me otherwise. Eager now to see what comes out of 21 Inc.
I posted a link to this thread in the main S5 thread. If it gets deleted, I'll repost this thread over there.
Thank you!

[philipma1957]

You are not the first to be disappointed by bitmaintech with poor RMA service.
I suggest posting on this thread often and maybe they will send more coin to you. This may end up being closed by mods and you may be told to post in the main s-5 thread.
I wish you luck in your quest for better compensation.  I will say this is a polite thread and well written. Keep plugging away.

Well, that's shameful. My impression was that Bitmain was the most reputable asic company out there. I was shocked that Yoshi would even tell me that my miner was working when it clearly wasn't - like somehow he was going to convince me otherwise. Eager now to see what comes out of 21 Inc.
I posted a link to this thread in the main S5 thread. If it gets deleted, I'll repost this thread over there.
Thank you!

They sell good gear that works almost all the time, but it something is broken  they are not great at taking care of customer. Just keep trying and posting.

[notlist3d]

You are not the first to be disappointed by bitmaintech with poor RMA service.
I suggest posting on this thread often and maybe they will send more coin to you. This may end up being closed by mods and you may be told to post in the main s-5 thread.
I wish you luck in your quest for better compensation.  I will say this is a polite thread and well written. Keep plugging away.

Well, that's shameful. My impression was that Bitmain was the most reputable asic company out there. I was shocked that Yoshi would even tell me that my miner was working when it clearly wasn't - like somehow he was going to convince me otherwise. Eager now to see what comes out of 21 Inc.
I posted a link to this thread in the main S5 thread. If it gets deleted, I'll repost this thread over there.
Thank you!

They sell good gear that works almost all the time, but it something is broken  they are not great at taking care of customer. Just keep trying and posting.

I could just be lucky I never have had problems with Bitmain service.

Only thing tied to them is syscooling gear that was a huge pain with my first batch c1's.  I hope they do not team up again in future.

[thedreamer]

Sounds like they are a lot like a few Firearms companies.

If you get the firearm and it works out of the box, it will be awesome for years to come.

If you have issues that you have to send it back for repairs, you will get hosed for months on end and you're better off selling at a loss and buying another one. 

Taurus is exactly like that.

[GigaBit]

Good fucking luck getting anything, you're an idiot to them; doubly true if you buy into Hashnest.

Here's the Top Ten how to deal with Bitmain:

1- Order the miner, you will receive it, they're good at shipping and making miners, I give them that... never had big issues myself.
2- Start the miner, if all goes well, carry on, if not troubleshoot, most of the time it's the ECB.
3- If something fails, MacGyver something to last until you get a new part... unfortunately, Bitmain makes their own ECB's. #LackOfOptions
4- If you need parts, they won't send them on your own, they will ask when your next order is.
5- That's a trap, they don't always do what you ask them, regardless how many times you say nor how desperate you are to get it.
6- Always assume worst case scenario, be prepared, buy additional parts like wires; harass them to get spare ECB, they won't send spare ECB unless you tell them you have an OOW miner but tell them to only send you a payment address and cost; otherwise you'll wait a week+ just to get an order.
7- MacGuyver as much as possible... don't wait for Bitmain, picture that you're dealing with a donkey... that's how they see you.
8- Read 7 again, it's what makes and breaks miners!!
9- Assume they understood absolutely nothing of what you asked; also assume they outright ignored you.
10- If they say "No Worries" BE EXTREMELY WORRIED!!!!  They lie without remorse and won't even admit their lies, then eventually ignore you.

They're probably the most idiotic company I do deal with, I still buy from them but never talk to them anymore since it's an über waste of time, I can fix their shit like no one's business.  Again, remember the donkey... never forget the donkey.  They make good miners but not much else.

[Finksy]

 

Of the t-shirt that is.  Oh, and since Dogie/bitmain had my other post deleted:

Edit: Though funny, picture was a little rude. Bitmain are trying according to OP.

[SirChiko]

 

Of the t-shirt that is.  Oh, and since Dogie/bitmain had my other post deleted:



Bitmain IS honey badger

Wow after this story bitmain is a big NO NO to me. Where from did you gather enought nerves to wait that long time without compensation?
Mind tell us how mutch did you exactly lose in that time? I'd just gater it up, write up summs in excel and tell them to cover it.
It's their fault anyway.

[Furio]

Allways have been awfull, unless you order 50 or 100, then they seem much more friendly . Their customer service concentrates in tellign you to do their job, apply some new paste etc etc etc, truly shit service

[jadefalke]

wow, thought of buying some, but with that service, never ever.

[BitLeafClover]

 

Of the t-shirt that is.

Wow after this story bitmain is a big NO NO to me. Where from did you gather enought nerves to wait that long time without compensation?
Mind tell us how mutch did you exactly lose in that time? I'd just gater it up, write up summs in excel and tell them to cover it.
It's their fault anyway.

I'm kind of like Batman. See OP for amount.

.                                                                                                                                                                                                                .

Update: I spoke with a representative from Bitmain on the phone. I have three articles to share.

1) Advice for anyone in a similar situation
A. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
Okay, now the real stuff.
B. Document everything as I did above, especially, the timeline.
This will make things significantly simpler for everybody. I will admit that I presented this documentation in this thread before I shared it with Bitmain. I did this because I assumed that because they were the second party involved in this series of events, they understood it in the same light I did. This is not true. A big reason, being, I'm sure, that I spoke with multiple representatives throughout the 2+ months.
C. Share the documentation with the manufacturer before you publish it.
As soon such information enters the public domain, both parties are encumbered by public opinion. In a court of law, this can be potentially construed as blackmail or extortion. The manufacturer, in this case, is then precluded from further cooperation. The purchaser, is then vulnerable to legal action. This is extremely sensitive. Note that it is okay to publish, but if you do, expect nothing. Consider yourself effectively forfeiting any opportunity.

2) My impression of the process
My impression is that Bitmain is busy. This is not unethical nor malicious. It is a lean model, which is due for an iteration. The best I can think to do as consumers is to encourage RMA Process Development through positive feedback.
In speaking with the Bitmain USA Rep, I got the impression that they do want to help. We are all in a maturing industry, which requires patients from both organizations and individuals. Self disclosure: I also work in an immature industry and completely understand the difficulty of doing business in a rough industrial environment - it's still the wild west, as they say.

3) My concerns are addressed
As mentioned, the publication of documentation, as I have done, assumes an encumbrance. Thus, regardless of Bitmain policy, compensation is not an appropriate option. I am inclined to avoid further encumbrance, so I will simply say that my concerns were addressed. Sorry for the lack of narrative; I promise nothing extraordinary happened, only some well had communication... Nah! Just kidding, I'l provide some closure: they offered a fair sliding scale refund based on down time. The refund has been declined, but I think it is appropriate and am a happy Bitmain customer in the end.

I am not above posting a tip jar if you found this information helpful: 1CaWCw2tj5zmRdDDSNiT5NP3HDdzshiXs5

[philipma1957]

…

2) My impression of the process
My impression is that Bitmain is busy. This is not unethical nor malicious. It is a lean model, which is due for an iteration. The best I can think to do as consumers is to encourage RMA Process Development through positive feedback.
In speaking with the Bitmain USA Rep, I got the impression that they do want to help. We are all in a maturing industry, which requires patients from both organizations and individuals. Self disclosure: I also work in an immature industry and completely understand the difficulty of doing business in a rough industrial environment - it's still the wild west, as they say.

3) My concerns are addressed
As mentioned, the publication of documentation, as I have done, assumes an encumbrance. Thus, regardless of Bitmain policy, compensation is not an appropriate option. I am inclined to avoid further encumbrance, so I will simply say that my concerns were addressed. Sorry for the lack of narrative; I promise nothing extraordinary happened, only some well had communication... Nah! Just kidding, I'l provide some closure: they offered a fair sliding scale refund based on down time. The refund has been declined, but I think it is appropriate and am a happy Bitmain customer in the end.

I am not above posting a tip jar if you found this information helpful: 1CaWCw2tj5zmRdDDSNiT5NP3HDdzshiXs5

 They offered a refund of sorts and you refused it?  Why?

 BTW I have found that if you are polite and persistent  they do try to help.  The key is polite and persistent.
In general they are one of the better builder -sellers in this game.

[Furio]

wow, thought of buying some, but with that service, never ever.

There aren't any better out there, maybe Spoondoolies, yet they are much more expensive per gh/s...

[BitLeafClover]

They offered a refund of sorts and you refused it?  Why?

 BTW I have found that if you are polite and persistent  they do try to help.  The key is polite and persistent.
In general they are one of the better builder -sellers in this game.

I didn't refuse it; it was declined. The miners are not in my possession anymore  

Yeah, they really are. Which was my impression from the get-go, until the snaggle, but now my trust is restored. This seems to be a fluke.

[stonerider]

Bitmain sux eggs now. Dogie sux eggs too. Avoid them.

If you buy mining gear, do not pay the exorbitant price they are asking currently. Think about this: You may not break even until a year from now or more, and by the time you ROI, block halfing will occur, your mining profit will be reduced by at least 50% overnight at the time of halfing. If you think 5% difficulty hike is bad, wait until the next halfing.

[thedreamer]

wow, thought of buying some, but with that service, never ever.

There aren't any better out there, maybe Spoondoolies, yet they are much more expensive per gh/s...

I will be playing with my First s5 soon, but must add that as an owner of C1's and S3's, the SP20 from spondoolies run circles around the Antminers.
Better and fast web interface, more robust hardware from what I see at least, more efficient (I can get 1150-1230GH/s at around 600W on almost all SP20's and if I want to turn up the speed to an easy 1600GH/s per miner.

[Bicknellski]

Dogie sux eggs too.

Ya that part of the statement I would whole heartily agree with.

I doubt that his "contract" with Bitmain will be renewed he has caused them more heartache than help and probably given them a worse reputation rather than helping them avoid confrontations with customers.

Given his ability to bend the truth and stir up enormous amounts of effluent from any thread it goes without saying he is not really a part of Bitmain and something more of a vestigial organ that needs to be removed as it is inflamed and causing some many undesirable side effects.