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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914350 times)
VJain
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June 18, 2014, 05:11:35 AM
 #20921

I predict low share prices for AM in the near future, maybe record lows... not for bad news but because I imagine many AM investors will want to get into DataTank... and many of us already used all our available funds to purchase cheep AM shares.

There seems to be an appeal with DataTank, as they're working closely with AM. However, are current shareholders willing to let go of their shares for something that is farther down the line?

Dividend Payments
Profits will be paid weekly in form of dividends. First payments are expected when the initial hardware is deployed, 3-6 months after successful fund raising.

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but it seems like quite the trade off with 3-6 months later, with the assumption that AM will start dividends sooner than that. There's lots to consider.

There are two ways to play this

One bet on the chip sales and gamble on the payments then do a switch
Or jump into the Datatank early and assume the price will rise as the dividends approach

Both strategies have a chance of burning so some people may just play it safe and do a 50 50 approach or a ratio more favorable to them.

Or just hodl the coins ... the best strategy so far

High risk investments can lead to great rewards... just ask all the IPO investors in this thread =]. I myself turned 10btc into a heck of a lot more then 10btc by NOT holding. People who are holding 100% probably don't even bother reading the security threads.

Making Apps and Websites for people. I charge reasonable rates ($30-40/hour in BTC).
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June 18, 2014, 05:18:19 AM
 #20922

I predict low share prices for AM in the near future, maybe record lows... not for bad news but because I imagine many AM investors will want to get into DataTank... and many of us already used all our available funds to purchase cheep AM shares.

There seems to be an appeal with DataTank, as they're working closely with AM. However, are current shareholders willing to let go of their shares for something that is farther down the line?

Dividend Payments
Profits will be paid weekly in form of dividends. First payments are expected when the initial hardware is deployed, 3-6 months after successful fund raising.

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but it seems like quite the trade off with 3-6 months later, with the assumption that AM will start dividends sooner than that. There's lots to consider.

There are two ways to play this

One bet on the chip sales and gamble on the payments then do a switch
Or jump into the Datatank early and assume the price will rise as the dividends approach

Both strategies have a chance of burning so some people may just play it safe and do a 50 50 approach or a ratio more favorable to them.

Or just hodl the coins ... the best strategy so far

High risk investments can lead to great rewards... just ask all the IPO investors in this thread =]. I myself turned 10btc into a heck of a lot more then 10btc by NOT holding. People who are holding 100% probably don't even bother reading the security threads.

Fair point risk brings reward

My point was that if you assume AM dividends are incoming you could wait and collect those first but you take some risk that Datatanks are produced earlier than schedule and they start mining before their estimate or that they get an aggressive dividend schedule a month or two from today.

On the other hand if you buy Datatank shares the price may go up a lot and its cheaper to get IPO shares than it is to buy later, that said considering Rockxie shares and rockminer also listing on Havelock I am not sure how a third factor will equate into the price calculations.

A possible scenario would be
Asicminer Dividends for 2 months --> Rockminer Dividends for 2 months --> Datatank Dividends for 2 months

With buy ins after the first dividends start to wean down and speculators move onto the next company assuming their distributions will start afterwards.

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June 18, 2014, 05:24:47 AM
 #20923


A possible scenario would be
Asicminer Dividends for 2 months --> Rockminer Dividends for 2 months --> Datatank Dividends for 2 months


Now that sounds like a high risk - high reward scenario.

I may play with that on paper and see how it turns out. 
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June 18, 2014, 05:28:40 AM
 #20924

On the other hand if you buy Datatank shares the price may go up a lot and its cheaper to get IPO shares than it is to buy later

Please explain to me, how is appreciation of cloud mining shares possible in terms of BTC, thank you

EDIT : because by "shares", you're buying fixed amount of power(megawats) , not fixed share in company(like ASICminer), there will be a lot more offerings from DataTank, until they stop production

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June 18, 2014, 05:30:33 AM
Last edit: June 18, 2014, 05:47:58 AM by Swordsoffreedom
 #20925

On the other hand if you buy Datatank shares the price may go up a lot and its cheaper to get IPO shares than it is to buy later

Please explain to me, how is appreciation of cloud mining shares possible in term of BTC, thank you

There were two types of Shares
Series A and Series B
Only one of the two series involves cloudmining I believe I'll need to recheck on that (not sure capacity isn't mining so only series A does it? although the space is still being used I presume either way)
http://www.datatank-mining.com/files/DataTank_Mining_Ops_Prospectus.pdf

"A"

Unit Holders purchase capacity + mining devices.
100% of the income generated is paid out to unit holders. Funds raised via "A"
units are used to build DataTank mining systems and mining hardware, "A" units are therefore more expensive than "B" units below.

"B"

Unit Holders purchase capacity only (no mining hardware). This capacity is made available on the market and used by third party miners (mining organizations, end - users) for appropriate market prices, bidding models, or special franchising agreements with ASIC manufacturers (ie. 80/20 franchising, 20% of mining income goes to holder of "B" units), or used by unit holders for self-mining.

100% of the income generated is paid out to unit holders.

Think its sort of like a mining bond in that the market speculates on it if I interpreted it correctly if we are allowed to analyze the datatank IPO in the AM thread? If so I'll continue we can also try to guess how many chip sales this will generate for AM as well Smiley

Voluntary Reinvestment
As 100% of income is paid to unit holders, there is no fixed reinvestment percentage or schedule.
However, DataTank Mining recommends unit holders to reserve 20% of earnings for reinvestment to replace outdated /inefficient mining hardware
and fund additional capacity.

This way, investors are in control over reinvestments individually and decide autonomously if and when reinvestments are being made.
Moreover, DataTank Mining intends to establish a reinvestment program at favorable market rates for existing unit holders.

I guess Bitcoin is made depending on how shareholders interpret the market and when to go all in or do nothing in terms of reinvesting in the company.
The shares appreciate if reinvested growth is greater than the increase in difficulty as they are able to generate more Bitcoins with the hashrate
With a lag time of a few months from decision to working hash in the network allowing the market to freely interpret the price, based on their estimated hash and estimated difficulty increases.

Just a rough idea though feel free to correct me may be totally off.


A possible scenario would be
Asicminer Dividends for 2 months --> Rockminer Dividends for 2 months --> Datatank Dividends for 2 months


Now that sounds like a high risk - high reward scenario.

I may play with that on paper and see how it turns out.  

Cool tell me how it goes Smiley

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June 18, 2014, 07:02:05 AM
Last edit: June 18, 2014, 07:12:38 AM by jimmothy
 #20926

Bitmains new 28nm chip announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461

Looks decent. Quite a bit less efficient than I expected but much sooner.
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June 18, 2014, 07:09:23 AM
 #20927

AM1    ฿0.1841    ฿4843    1.84%


now come on!  Cry

Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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June 18, 2014, 07:21:27 AM
 #20928

AM1    ฿0.1841    ฿4843    1.84%


now come on!  Cry

Lol looks like someone was about to miss rent this month...
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June 18, 2014, 07:38:23 AM
 #20929

Bitmains new 28nm chip announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461

Looks decent. Quite a bit less efficient than I expected but much sooner.

The mining sphere is competitive
Anyways thanks for sharing looks like something that is worth keeping tabs on
Rockminer Antminer Datatank AM chips etc.

AM1    ฿0.1841    ฿4843    1.84%


now come on!  Cry

I feel ya.
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June 18, 2014, 07:50:41 AM
 #20930

AM1    ฿0.1841    ฿4843    1.84%


now come on!  Cry

Lol, someone sells 13 shares for like 2.5 btc and 180k shares lose 10% of their value (roughly 10 Million USD)?  

Edit... I just bought one share at .2189 and made back that $10 million for you guys.  your welcome.

ridiculous.

Quote
Symbol   AM1   Last Price   ฿0.21887949   Market Cap   ฿5758.06
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June 18, 2014, 08:11:04 AM
 #20931

Surely Friedcat has managed get us a revenue share into the DataTank operation?

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June 18, 2014, 08:12:28 AM
 #20932

Lol, someone sells 13 shares for like 2.5 btc and 180k shares lose 10% of their value (roughly 10 Million USD)?

Edit... I just bought one share at .2189 and made back that $10 million for you guys.  your welcome.

ridiculous.

Quote
Symbol   AM1   Last Price   ฿0.21887949   Market Cap   ฿5758.06

Liquidity is at all time lows, what is this a sign of?  Is it that all the shares are in strong hands?  Is it that people do not trust Havelock? Are people just holding onto shares for the next dividend, and then market orders will go up?  Is it something I can not think of?

I almost wonder if someone is playing with Havelock prices and then pointing to that share price while they make larger off market Direct share purchases...

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June 18, 2014, 08:19:47 AM
 #20933

If each of the long holders would commit to purchasing 1 share per day or week or whatever, then the stock price would rebound... but then again, that would be no better gauge of the actual market value of the asset then we have now.
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June 18, 2014, 08:22:00 AM
 #20934

Lol, someone sells 13 shares for like 2.5 btc and 180k shares lose 10% of their value (roughly 10 Million USD)?

Edit... I just bought one share at .2189 and made back that $10 million for you guys.  your welcome.

ridiculous.

Quote
Symbol   AM1   Last Price   ฿0.21887949   Market Cap   ฿5758.06

Liquidity is at all time lows, what is this a sign of?  Is it that all the shares are in strong hands?  Is it that people do not trust Havelock? Are people just holding onto shares for the next dividend, and then market orders will go up?  Is it something I can not think of?

I almost wonder if someone is playing with Havelock prices and then pointing to that share price while they make larger off market Direct share purchases...

We really should be moving away from Havelock.  I don't understand why the DataTank IPO is also going to be on havelock. Bitcoin is all about decentralisation, if havelock hosts the majority of every security IPO we're increasing making ourselves the bigger target for fraud, hackers, government enforcement etc. Decentralise and disintermediate, removes the problem surely a bitcoin 2.0 counterparty etc can pick up the slack?

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June 18, 2014, 08:25:29 AM
 #20935

Lol, someone sells 13 shares for like 2.5 btc and 180k shares lose 10% of their value (roughly 10 Million USD)?

Edit... I just bought one share at .2189 and made back that $10 million for you guys.  your welcome.

ridiculous.

Quote
Symbol   AM1   Last Price   ฿0.21887949   Market Cap   ฿5758.06

Liquidity is at all time lows, what is this a sign of?  Is it that all the shares are in strong hands?  Is it that people do not trust Havelock? Are people just holding onto shares for the next dividend, and then market orders will go up?  Is it something I can not think of?

I almost wonder if someone is playing with Havelock prices and then pointing to that share price while they make larger off market Direct share purchases...

We really should be moving away from Havelock.  I don't understand why the DataTank IPO is also going to be on havelock. Bitcoin is all about decentralisation, if havelock hosts the majority of every security IPO we're increasing making ourselves the bigger target for fraud, hackers, government enforcement etc. Decentralise and disintermediate, removes the problem surely a bitcoin 2.0 counterparty etc can pick up the slack?

Don't know about you guys... but when I tried using colored coins with Coinprism, I found it to be a pretty seamless experience. If I started a Bitcoin company today, I would definitely issue shares using colored coins. (mind you that only decentralizes the task of keeping track of share ownership, you would still need centralized market places for trading, but the overall risk would be much lower)
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June 18, 2014, 08:53:23 AM
 #20936

If each of the long holders would commit to purchasing 1 share per day or week or whatever, then the stock price would rebound... but then again, that would be no better gauge of the actual market value of the asset then we have now.

Back on BCTC, I did 100% dividend reinvestment... I have always wondered why HL did not have that option (unless they do and I do not see it).  I suppose the lack of dividends to re-invest could be a major cause of the low price.  I sell a few shares now and then to diversify into other holdings, like I may do with DataTank, and without Dividend reinvestment, I am not buying those shares back.

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June 18, 2014, 09:14:47 AM
 #20937

Bitmains new 28nm chip announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461

Looks decent. Quite a bit less efficient than I expected but much sooner.

I perceive the chart they posted as very telling of how they operate through thier efforts of forecasting profitability. As I stated before system pricing is set as a function of offering just enough incentive to buy. Bitmain has continually carefully price adjusted to changing market conditions and watching the history of the S1's pricing gave insight into just how much margin there initially was and how inexpensively it could be manufactured. The take away is mining equipment is only as competitive and lucrative as the manufacturers make it and miners accept all risk of the network expanding more quickly than before. As more of these large mining operations come online that risk of more rapidly increasing becomes higher. I would prefer to be on the side of people that control this situation than out on my own at the mercy of the situation.
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June 18, 2014, 09:34:04 AM
 #20938

I'm a bit confused. I was read the term 80/20 and franchising several times now. Will the container or 'tanks' just be sold or only sold for franchising?

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June 18, 2014, 02:49:22 PM
 #20939

They have a goal of 5 1.4mw containers and up to 10.

That would be 10-20ph worth of chips.

Also they somehow managed to get electricity costs all the way down to $0.02/kwh which is perfect for franchising. I'm hoping for at least 10-20ph.


20PH=0.35W/GH. How did you get this number? Has it been proven in a DataTank environment?

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June 18, 2014, 03:01:16 PM
 #20940

They have a goal of 5 1.4mw containers and up to 10.

That would be 10-20ph worth of chips.

Also they somehow managed to get electricity costs all the way down to $0.02/kwh which is perfect for franchising. I'm hoping for at least 10-20ph.


20PH=0.35W/GH. How did you get this number? Has it been proven in a DataTank environment?

I misspoke it should be 1.2MW/container.

20PH at 12MW is 0.6w/gh and yes it has been tested.
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