Bitcoin Forum
May 17, 2022, 01:47:11 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 23.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 ... 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 [1131] 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 ... 1348 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914269 times)
RoadStress
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 01:18:11 PM
 #22601

lol. spondoolulz maybe? Grin

anyway, whats with all that hate towards AM recently?

Why do you or AM shareholder in general think that I have a lot of hate towards AM? You are deeply wrong. I don't consider AM such a big thread neither when it comes to mining(Bitfury owns here), neither when it comes to selling miners(BITMAIN owns here).

Don't get me wrong, but when we read about KnC getting a shit ton of funding for more DCs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8628790#msg8628790) and comparing to AM who has to sell at minimum profit just to get rid of hardware, I see a big difference and it's not hate. It's reality. KnC just stated they have 7PH spare mining power. What's the speed of AM self mining? Nobody knows. What's the speed of Bitfury's self mining? Nobody knows, but it's the highest % of the network. These are the big boys. AM is just playing in the sand at this moment. This is not about SP-Tech. It's about the reality. Look at BITMAIN business model. They are self mining and also selling hardware. And they do it good! How is AM comparing to BITMAIN? Again they are playing in the sand. I repeat: This is not about SP-Tech. Please get that out of your system and just look at the OTHER companies.

Because the R&D costs to develop and manufacture 20nm architectures and beyond...

Stopped reading here. Why do you compare the costs of a 40nm miner ONLY with the costs of a 20nm and beyond miner? What about better 40nm chips? Or maybe 28nm chips? Your comparision is flawed.

1652752031
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1652752031

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1652752031
Reply with quote  #2

1652752031
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1652752031
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1652752031

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1652752031
Reply with quote  #2

1652752031
Report to moderator
ensurance982
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


Trust me!


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 01:39:47 PM
 #22602

I think the strategy of AM is effectively to offer a much cheaper price for the hardware they sell in order to make it impossible for the competition to sell their miners. That way the competition loses their income streams! I believe AM doesn't rely on the profits they make from selling the hardware. I think they're quietly deploying respectable amounts of self- and franchised-hash rate and for now use the revenue to deploy even more. One day FC will come around the corner and say "well, look at our 15% of the hash rate" - is that soo improbable?

                                                                                                                      We Support Currencies: BTC, LTC, USD, EUR, GBP
RoadStress
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 01:57:16 PM
 #22603

I think the strategy of AM is effectively to offer a much cheaper price for the hardware they sell in order to make it impossible for the competition to sell their miners. That way the competition loses their income streams! I believe AM doesn't rely on the profits they make from selling the hardware. I think they're quietly deploying respectable amounts of self- and franchised-hash rate and for now use the revenue to deploy even more. One day FC will come around the corner and say "well, look at our 15% of the hash rate" - is that soo improbable?

I will donate 0.5 BTC to Sean's Outpost when AM will reach 15% of the hashrate!

rudi
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 141
Merit: 100


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 01:58:28 PM
 #22604

And when you view a public pool service that undercuts the competition at a 0.5% etc fee to break even on AM's end as another product in their portfolio of offerings, that's when you're starting to think in the right direction.   Wink

I like your way of thinking, Zelda!
jjdub7
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 502


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:00:27 PM
 #22605

And when you view a public pool service that undercuts the competition at a 0.5% etc fee to break even on AM's end as another product in their portfolio of offerings, that's when you're starting to think in the right direction.   Wink

I like your way of thinking, Zelda!

Lol here, let me Link you to a snapshot of Zelda:

Grin


Because the R&D costs to develop and manufacture 20nm architectures and beyond...

Stopped reading here. Why do you compare the costs of a 40nm miner ONLY with the costs of a 20nm and beyond miner? What about better 40nm chips? Or maybe 28nm chips? Your comparision is flawed.

Your criticism is flawed.  You're obviously not from an engineering background.  If costs scaled perfectly for R&D, AM et al would all be on KnC's level of technology right now.  I compare the 40nm costs to those of smaller architectures using a roadmap analysis.  This is imperative because (1) as the difficulty continues to increase, the only way to match the required exponential increases in network hashing power to energy costs as the BTC price stagnates is to use more powerful (density-wise) chips, and (2) the efficiency engineering comes after you've completed a prototype at a smaller architecture - the "fine-tuning" of your draft chip design, followed by the hardware design process and the efficiencies that can be gained therein.

Your critique neglects to acknowledge that mining is an arms race and will be for the foreseeable future.  If you're fighting a war, sure you can bring a million musketmen to the battlefield, but they'll be a pittance compared to your enemy's cruise missiles.
ensurance982
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


Trust me!


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:08:03 PM
 #22606

I think the strategy of AM is effectively to offer a much cheaper price for the hardware they sell in order to make it impossible for the competition to sell their miners. That way the competition loses their income streams! I believe AM doesn't rely on the profits they make from selling the hardware. I think they're quietly deploying respectable amounts of self- and franchised-hash rate and for now use the revenue to deploy even more. One day FC will come around the corner and say "well, look at our 15% of the hash rate" - is that soo improbable?

I will donate 0.5 BTC to Sean's Outpost when AM will reach 15% of the hashrate!

Ha, quoting you right there! I don't necessarily think they'll achieve 15%, but why not at least 5%? I don't think that's totally unrealistic, maybe even 10%. I'm just saying, who knows what AM is doing, they may very well be putting massive amounts of hash rate online as we speak!

                                                                                                                      We Support Currencies: BTC, LTC, USD, EUR, GBP
RoadStress
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:09:58 PM
 #22607

Your criticism is flawed.  You're obviously not from an engineering background.  If costs scaled perfectly for R&D, AM et al would all be on KnC's level of technology right now.  I compare the 40nm costs to those of smaller architectures using a roadmap analysis.  This is imperative because (1) as the difficulty continues to increase, the only way to match the required exponential increases in network hashing power to energy costs as the BTC price stagnates is to use more powerful (density-wise) chips, and (2) the efficiency engineering comes after you've completed a prototype at a smaller architecture - the "fine-tuning" of your draft chip design, followed by the hardware design process and the efficiencies that can be gained therein.

Your critique neglects to acknowledge that mining is an arms race and will be for the foreseeable future.  If you're fighting a war, sure you can bring a million musketmen to the battlefield, but they'll be a pittance compared to your enemy's cruise missiles.

Quoted for future reference. Coming from an engineering background person you made me LOL with this post. Cruise missiles...LOL! You reminded me about ROFLCOPER!

Ha, quoting you right there! I don't necessarily think they'll achieve 15%, but why not at least 5%? I don't think that's totally unrealistic, maybe even 10%. I'm just saying, who knows what AM is doing, they may very well be putting massive amounts of hash rate online as we speak!

Down 10% already? That's a big swing!

If I were a shareholder I would be sad to not know my companies future plans. Almost 2 months of self mining and nobody knows the hashrate...

NotLambchop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 254


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:11:39 PM
 #22608

... One day FC will come around the corner and say "well, look at our 15% of the hash rate" - is that soo improbable?

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
and a little child shall lead them.

KarmaShark
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 595
Merit: 507



View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
 #22609

I think the strategy of AM is effectively to offer a much cheaper price for the hardware they sell in order to make it impossible for the competition to sell their miners. That way the competition loses their income streams! I believe AM doesn't rely on the profits they make from selling the hardware. I think they're quietly deploying respectable amounts of self- and franchised-hash rate and for now use the revenue to deploy even more. One day FC will come around the corner and say "well, look at our 15% of the hash rate" - is that soo improbable?

I will donate 0.5 BTC to Sean's Outpost when AM will reach 15% of the hashrate!

Ha, quoting you right there! I don't necessarily think they'll achieve 15%, but why not at least 5%? I don't think that's totally unrealistic, maybe even 10%. I'm just saying, who knows what AM is doing, they may very well be putting massive amounts of hash rate online as we speak!


I certainly hope that is the case, along with all the other shareholders. To flip the script for a moment, I have a question for you. At what point in 2014 would you start to lose faith in AM's ability to produce a profit out of Gen3 chips? Hypothetically speaking, if we were to enter October with nothing tangible, does this change your view on the company's ability to compete in the mining industry with force, going forward? It is worth noting that while FC has been more active in the forums of late, the "dividends in August" hope resulted from another shareholders claim of a conversation with FC, not from the Cat himself speaking to his shareholders here on the forum.

The information could be 100% valid, however I see so little coverage of that event and the lack of interviews and other information creates an environment where unless I hear it from the Cat himself, I am not getting my hopes up. The summer is about over, expect things to heat up soon if nothing tangible can be produced over the fall season.
ensurance982
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


Trust me!


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 02:34:38 PM
 #22610

I certainly hope that is the case, along with all the other shareholders. To flip the script for a moment, I have a question for you. At what point in 2014 would you start to lose faith in AM's ability to produce a profit out of Gen3 chips? Hypothetically speaking, if we were to enter October with nothing tangible, does this change your view on the company's ability to compete in the mining industry with force, going forward? It is worth noting that while FC has been more active in the forums of late, the "dividends in August" hope resulted from another shareholders claim of a conversation with FC, not from the Cat himself speaking to his shareholders here on the forum.

The information could be 100% valid, however I see so little coverage of that event and the lack of interviews and other information creates an environment where unless I hear it from the Cat himself, I am not getting my hopes up. The summer is about over, expect things to heat up soon if nothing tangible can be produced over the fall season.

You are right, the information about the dividends was't directly form FC, but it was from a translation of what he said at the salon meeting! So I guess the general consensus actually is that FC did state that, no one has said something contrary!
Well if they indeed have gained access to very cheap electricity, they may be able to mine for quite some time at a profit. I don't think their mining will become unprofitable this year. And FC said himself he intends to achieve the previous average hash rate with the current generation. And at the salon he said something along the lines of 25% with BE200 and BE300...
I definitely believe he still highly intends to pay at least some sort of dividends to shareholders.

                                                                                                                      We Support Currencies: BTC, LTC, USD, EUR, GBP
Blazed
Casascius Addict
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128
Merit: 1119



View Profile WWW
September 02, 2014, 03:05:40 PM
 #22611

Yes, BE200 chips missed their design target. But it was hardly as though AM intended this to happen.

How much power does a single BE200 chip consume anyway? If it's ~0.7 W/GH and nominally 10GH like I read, that's approximately 7W. I guess it should still be possible to run them on high power USB ports. Feel free to buy a batch of chips and turn them into consumer-friendly USB miners, if  you're convinced about the potential.

On the other hand, even if the BE200 hadn't missed its power design target, it would not have squeezed within the 2.5W power envelope that standard USB ports would provide. I trust that FC and team had good reasons to aim for the large scale and high density market.

Which manufacturer didnt missed their target recently hm?! ant? nope. spondo? nope nope nope..

It is obvious that USBminers are finished now considering the difficulty and global hashrate. not even worth selling some to noobs, i mean, how much would cost a 10Gh usbminer? 10$? ridiculous, it would hardly cover the manufacturing costs. Plus, hobbyists should be better off with a regular tube or some S3, instead of piling USB dongles anyway.

9TH for 7,9BTC is the best offer that have ever been made so far in the bitcoin mining industry. I still cant make up my mind as to how fast it has evolved since barely a year.


I think that the USB miners from Rockminer are the new "noob" miners...they are what $40 and easy to use?  I think the issue with AM sales is how they have handled it so far...lack of quality control, lack of a good website, and no real support.  It almost feels like they really do not care if they sell the tubes or not? 
VolanicEruptor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 02, 2014, 03:09:45 PM
 #22612

i'm starting to believe AM is complete garbage now, and not because of some shithead named lambchops, but rather FC's complete loss of grip on the market

hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
September 02, 2014, 03:37:03 PM
 #22613

i'm starting to believe AM is complete garbage now, and not because of some shithead named lambchops, but rather FC's complete loss of grip on the market

and could you tell me on what figures or data have you reach such conclusion?
SaintFlow
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


The first is by definition not flawed.


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 03:56:58 PM
 #22614

i'm starting to believe AM is complete garbage now, and not because of some shithead named lambchops, but rather FC's complete loss of grip on the market

and could you tell me on what figures or data have you reach such conclusion?

... not that there is much data for the opposite conclusion either.  


Where is the divident? Where is the hopefull simulation data of another generation?
Where are the numbers of the last quarter? Where are the salesfigures?
Has there been any explanation for the last numbers, yet? For example the huge
expense listed as "exchange fee?" or something like that.  
Once a full moon there is info on how many chips there will/have been ordered.
Not that we hear, that they are delivered, or that they have been sold...

Who here can give any fair estimate of what is going on with frainchising, or has gone on....?
I ask you honestly ... with full respect to buisness secrets for competitive advantage for the
future: What gives, that there is no release of what happend even 1 year ago?
________________________________________________________________________
Trollmode: on

Shure, I am sitting with money in the exchanges waiting for bloodbaths to cash in on firesales
on the secret info that friedcat has been held captive by the chinese goverment for months
and everyone is hush about it and the tech stuff just runs the company like any other
shenzen alibaba operation.... NO INFO IS A CLEAR SIGN OF NO INTEREST IN INVESTORS.

My friend, I know a good investment, shure thing. Just looks a bit like as if it is
100% not accountable to you. But it did behave ethical in the past.
Another great advantage are the secret shareholder meetings.
Its so great i just bought 10 grand of more shares.
Trollmode off
________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: Still hold substantial amounts since IPO and know how to run a firm hand live.
Request: No investment advise, please.

Edit for spelling and Emphesis


don't let me make you question your assumptions
Mabsark
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1004


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 04:12:43 PM
 #22615

Why do you or AM shareholder in general think that I have a lot of hate towards AM?

Because you keep making up shit about AM and try to pass it off as facts.

What's the speed of AM self mining? Nobody knows. What's the speed of Bitfury's self mining? Nobody knows, but it's the highest % of the network. These are the big boys. AM is just playing in the sand at this moment.

So, you admit you have no idea how much hashing power AM are mining with then proceed to call them little kids playing in the sand. The only thing you do know is that they had 60 Ph/s worth of BE200 ASICs back in June. That's almost 1/3 of the network hash rate today.

Clearly small potatoes.  Roll Eyes

bitsalame
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 510


Preaching the gospel of Satoshi


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 04:21:19 PM
 #22616

I would suggest Friedcat to hire some Executive Coaching.
I think that he might be a splendid engineer, but lack managerial skills/business acumen to take the company to the next level.
Either that or hire a CEO. Many technical founders become CTOs, and that's nothing wrong with it.
SaintFlow
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


The first is by definition not flawed.


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 04:27:09 PM
 #22617

I would suggest Friedcat to hire some Executive Coaching.
I think that he might be a splendid engineer, but lack managerial skills/business acumen to take the company to the next level.
Either that or hire a CEO. Many technical founders become CTOs, and that's nothing wrong with it.

that is basically the most practical thing that can be done.

don't let me make you question your assumptions
KarmaShark
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 595
Merit: 507



View Profile
September 02, 2014, 04:33:48 PM
 #22618

I would suggest Friedcat to hire some Executive Coaching.
I think that he might be a splendid engineer, but lack managerial skills/business acumen to take the company to the next level.
Either that or hire a CEO. Many technical founders become CTOs, and that's nothing wrong with it.


I will be honest when I say some of your other comments have come off with a pushy and aggressive tone. However, this piece of advice must be quoted for significance and logic. ASICMINER is at a crossroads right now and I hope FC realizes that the environment from early 2013 has changed at lightning speed.
jjdub7
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 502


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 04:56:38 PM
 #22619

I would suggest Friedcat to hire some Executive Coaching.
I think that he might be a splendid engineer, but lack managerial skills/business acumen to take the company to the next level.
Either that or hire a CEO. Many technical founders become CTOs, and that's nothing wrong with it.

Brilliant engineer, yes.  Needs MBA and with his one-in-a-billion resume could get into the very best programs in the world.
SaintFlow
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


The first is by definition not flawed.


View Profile
September 02, 2014, 05:16:06 PM
 #22620

hope this is MBA and executive recommendation sees more action then the public relations agent.

don't let me make you question your assumptions
Pages: « 1 ... 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 [1131] 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 ... 1348 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!