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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3890014 times)
Rodyland
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May 02, 2013, 05:27:55 AM
 #4061

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Beware the weak hands!
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louong
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May 02, 2013, 05:30:06 AM
 #4062

Not sure how realistic it is to auction all the USB sticks, maybe batches of 100 max each? You could make it a reverse auction, where ASICMINER will set an initial price (presumably high), and everyone who wants in on that price bids x# of units.

If all 100 are spoken for at that price, then an auction will start, with the bidding to start at the initial price, with a specified end date. This should weed out the period of initial low bids (see last ASICMINER auction where a lot of time and thread space was wasted for the bids between 9 to 30 BTC when the 30-50 BTC was what really mattered). At the end date and time, additional bids extend the auction by 5 minutes.

If all 100 are not sold at that initial price, then every hour/pre-determined time period, the price will drop by 0.5BTC, until there are enough unit bids to reach 100, at which point the auction ends, and the first 100 bids will pay the same price.

Seems feasible and a lot more easy.  Grin

the concern then, for me anyway, is the whole "lots of 100" part. i am absolutely looking to get my hands on some of these usb miners, but there's no way i can afford ten, let alone 100. would we see those who win the 100 then reselling them for a higher price, and that would be the only way for small fries like me to get one?

Sorry, meant an auction of 100 USB miners where bidders can bid on any amount of them (as opposed to say 300 or however many total that ASICMINER have ready). Each auction can happen once a week or something to prevent oversaturation.

I don't think resale should be an issue if we set a high initial price and then either sell all 100 by going down in price until there is enough demand to sell all 100. Or if for some reason there is enough demand from bidders to take all 100 units at the initial price, start the auction from that price so it saves time and work for John K. (or whoever is handling the auction).

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louong
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May 02, 2013, 05:33:05 AM
 #4063

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

I like this - basically a "cash up front" auction to weed out non-serious people.

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May 02, 2013, 05:33:30 AM
 #4064

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

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Rodyland
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May 02, 2013, 05:35:29 AM
 #4065

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

I like this - basically a "cash up front" auction to weed out non-serious people.

Yes, cash up front.  Plus, the slow nature of 'get escrow -> make payment -> post in thread' means last minute sniping is hard to do.  Plus given that the auctioneers are involved in the placing of every bid, they can extend the auction by a couple of minutes for each escrow request?

Beware the weak hands!
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Rodyland
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May 02, 2013, 05:37:24 AM
 #4066

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame.  We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

Beware the weak hands!
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May 02, 2013, 05:40:41 AM
 #4067

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame.  We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

Welcome to the wild west days again, when people in civilized areas had cars and electricity, and people in the wild west had semi-functional guns and a wagon.  (Before the railroads were completed)
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May 02, 2013, 05:42:42 AM
 #4068

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder.   The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread.  The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments.  Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame.  We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

I would actually prefer your way to weed out problematic bidders, but I'll imagine that I would get more PM's on this. Heck, I had to answer a ton of newbie questions even though the auction is so simplified... Honestly many people would never read before asking. (proved during a group buy I escrowed too)

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May 02, 2013, 05:43:55 AM
 #4069

Hmm... I'm not sure of how a Dutch auction for multiple goods would work. It would confuse some bidders too (heck, I've been getting PM's on how basic auctions work) Undecided

Easier than you'd think. You have a countdown clock counting down the price from high to low, say 1 btc per hour. As soon as someone accepts a price for a number of items, those items are sold at that price.

It's a very quick auction method, and has the advantage that it can still sell some items before a reserve is reached. It doesn't matter if people know the price range beforehand since they don't know how others will bid. Since people *really* don't want to be left out, they'll probably bid earlier rather than later (when the price is lower but the probability of missing out is higher).

This method removes the end of auction sniping that occurs in English auctions. You wait until the price hits something you can afford and then you post once and you're done, or you miss out. No more having to check the thread regularly after you bid and repost every time someone makes a new bid.

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John (John K.)
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May 02, 2013, 05:46:40 AM
 #4070

Hmm... I'm not sure of how a Dutch auction for multiple goods would work. It would confuse some bidders too (heck, I've been getting PM's on how basic auctions work) Undecided

Easier than you'd think. You have a countdown clock counting down the price from high to low, say 1 btc per hour. As soon as someone accepts a price for a number of items, those items are sold at that price.

It's a very quick auction method, and has the advantage that it can still sell some items before a reserve is reached. It doesn't matter if people know the price range beforehand since they don't know how others will bid. Since people *really* don't want to be left out, they'll probably bid earlier rather than later (when the price is lower but the probability of missing out is higher).

This method removes the end of auction sniping that occurs in English auctions. You wait until the price hits something you can afford and then you post once and you're done, or you miss out. No more having to check the thread regularly after you bid and repost every time someone makes a new bid.


Sounds like what louong said above too - yeah this should be a good way of auctioning these off painlessly. Cheesy

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May 02, 2013, 05:47:12 AM
 #4071

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.
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May 02, 2013, 05:47:52 AM
 #4072

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.
I think Apple should only sell products to shareholders too! I'm sick of not being able to get a release day iPhone 6S.

Less bidders -> less prices fetched
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May 02, 2013, 05:48:42 AM
 #4073

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.

Nah, I don't think so. It would be trivial to buy one share for example, and bid.

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May 02, 2013, 05:49:09 AM
 #4074

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.

If I was a shareholder I would want ASICMINER to maximize profit by making the products available to all bidders, not just ASICMINER shareholders.

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May 02, 2013, 05:50:40 AM
 #4075

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.

If I was a shareholder I would want ASICMINER to maximize profit by making the products available to all bidders, not just ASICMINER shareholders.
True. As a shareholder I agree to this.

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May 02, 2013, 05:51:14 AM
 #4076

What AsicMiner need is a better public image, a website.

And a forum while at it, This bloated thread is not cutting it.

I have no idea where we are on that front but that should be a priority if you intent on selling products to end-users.
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May 02, 2013, 05:53:34 AM
 #4077

The Block Erupter USB sticks passed all the tests and we are about to produce them in quantity.

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May 02, 2013, 05:54:38 AM
 #4078

Any chance they'll be a separate auction or selling to shareholders direct with friedcat, not PT shareholders but friedcat ones? I'm sick of losing out to people who don't even have asicminer shares.

If I was a shareholder I would want ASICMINER to maximize profit by making the products available to all bidders, not just ASICMINER shareholders.
True. As a shareholder I agree to this.

The way the dividends will soon be going, the shareholders will be the only ones who can afford the price!

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May 02, 2013, 05:55:07 AM
 #4079

that's cool i understand that i guess, i just dont want to miss out hey.
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May 02, 2013, 05:59:49 AM
 #4080

Hmm... I'm not sure of how a Dutch auction for multiple goods would work. It would confuse some bidders too (heck, I've been getting PM's on how basic auctions work) Undecided

Easier than you'd think. You have a countdown clock counting down the price from high to low, say 1 btc per hour. As soon as someone accepts a price for a number of items, those items are sold at that price.

It's a very quick auction method, and has the advantage that it can still sell some items before a reserve is reached. It doesn't matter if people know the price range beforehand since they don't know how others will bid. Since people *really* don't want to be left out, they'll probably bid earlier rather than later (when the price is lower but the probability of missing out is higher).

This method removes the end of auction sniping that occurs in English auctions. You wait until the price hits something you can afford and then you post once and you're done, or you miss out. No more having to check the thread regularly after you bid and repost every time someone makes a new bid.


Sounds like what louong said above too - yeah this should be a good way of auctioning these off painlessly. Cheesy

As long as people can buy as many as they want on the way down until all are sold - is that what louong meant? Anyway, a Dutch auction is perfect for forums especially if it's to take place over hours or days (unless sold out first).

English auctions are really suitable only for short periods of time, and where upping your bid any number of times is possible - which it isn't on a forum.


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