ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[gogxmagog]

cloudmining can work, what bothered me about AMhash was...AM should have self mined with those machines and distributed the btc to AM shareholders. simple as that. instead they diluted AM shareholder's profits and sold them down the river. now look where we all are.

I'm venting ofc, but until FC turns up, AM is liquidated, some sort of reasonable explanation is given, our imaginations will run wild. worse even, panicking AMhash holders run to Chinese authorities and everything gets thrown in bureaucratic limbo, never to see resolution for any of us, only some corrupt Chinese officials...

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[OgNasty]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

[jimmothy]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Nice strawman.

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

[lightfoot]

There's a reason the entire industry has adopted cloudmining. (I think Avalon and 21e6 are the only manufacturers who are not involved with cloudmining)

Of course. With cloud mining you never have to make a product, only run a ponzi scheme. No need for a physical address, location, tangible assets. Just a big fluffy cloud. The only investment is marketing, better the marketing, larger the scheme.

[jimmothy]

There's a reason the entire industry has adopted cloudmining. (I think Avalon and 21e6 are the only manufacturers who are not involved with cloudmining)

Of course. With cloud mining you never have to make a product, only run a ponzi scheme. No need for a physical address, location, tangible assets. Just a big fluffy cloud. The only investment is marketing, better the marketing, larger the scheme.

What you described is not cloudmining, but a ponzi scheme disguised as cloudmining.

If people would simply demand proof of hashrate before purchasing, this wouldn't be an issue.

[michaelGedi]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

as soon as I started shorting bitcoins, I had more bitcoins

[lightfoot]

What you described is not cloudmining, but a ponzi scheme disguised as cloudmining.

If people would simply demand proof of hashrate before purchasing, this wouldn't be an issue.

Problem is such a site would have a lower rate of return than a ponzi. Therefore it would have to compete against ponzis, would be flamed as a greedy bunch, and would ultimately fail.

Or one could prove hashrate, inflate the profits to the ponzi levels, then do the "pump and dump" by delivering hashing till enough money was saved up to cut and run.

In both business models, the bad money seems to crowd out the good.

This seems to be a problem.

[hdbuck]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

as soon as I started shorting bitcoins, I had more bitcoins

yup. end game.

[EternalWingsofGod]

The strangest thing happened.  As soon as a stopped investing in bitcoin securities...

I had more bitcoins.

Ain't that the truth, well Bitcoin securities have had a very high tendency to suck
With very few exceptions all of them can be considered failures
In the end you really do have more Bitcoins avoiding them like the plague

[sngwinner]

I've sold my havelock shares and have attempted to withdraw from havelock. The withdrawal is still pending after 8 hours. I'm not sure if havelock just isn't processing now and has given up or what?

[pedrog]

I've sold my havelock shares and have attempted to withdraw from havelock. The withdrawal is still pending after 8 hours. I'm not sure if havelock just isn't processing now and has given up or what?

You may have to wait till Monday, I don't think they work weekends.

[OgNasty]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + advertising costs + insurance costs + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?

[hdbuck]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?

[jimmothy]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?

"needing to make a decent profit + taxes" applies to any sort of hardware sales business, not only cloudmining.

You make it seem like adding up all those extra costs associated with cloudmining will make it less profitable than home mining but that's just not the case. There are already several companies offering colocation at rates far below what the average home miner pays for electricity.

As for centralization, that's going to happen with or without cloudmining.

[TheIZS]

Wow really Flame1012!!!!! That is so impressive, and with your massive influence over the Chinese Communist Party officials involved, you're finally going to start righting the wrongs committed against non-chinese shareholders by disreputable Chinese businesses. I mean really with the track record the Chinese government has for being sure Chinese business are on the up and up how can you not succeed. Take the offer dipshit and be glad you got anything at all back. Remember Hashie dumbass?

I like your optimism, but you clearly haven't got a clue how it works out there in the real world of Southeast Asia. I thought AMHash was a little sketchy to begin with for the simple reason, if you get ripped off they are in China and you can't do shit. I had hopes the partnerships would keep all parties at least watching each other. Now we know well SHIT, you can't even trust the manufacturer to not rip you off.

The only rules left are, get in early, get out while you still have profit.

Edit

Oh! never mind that retarded post was removed by the poster or a mod before I finished typing.

[lucasjkr]

Cloudmining is not only easier/more profitable for the sellers, but also for the buyers.

Where are all the rich cloudmining buyers?

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity = more profitable.

It's really that simple.

Unfortunately, it's...

Cheaper hardware + cheaper electricity + employee costs + building costs + cooling costs + development costs + maintenance costs + needing to make a decent profit + taxes = Customers losing money + the Bitcoin network becoming centralized + Future Bitcoin miners/users being discouraged from participating + Current miners being less profitable + More BTC flooding the markets = Worse off for everyone to benefit the few at the top with the most fiat.  Sound familiar?

"needing to make a decent profit + taxes" applies to any sort of hardware sales business, not only cloudmining.

You make it seem like adding up all those extra costs associated with cloudmining will make it less profitable than home mining but that's just not the case. There are already several companies offering colocation at rates far below what the average home miner pays for electricity.

As for centralization, that's going to happen with or without cloudmining.

Unfortunately, this place seems to attract those without scruples.

Cloud mining sounds great in theory, but lots of operations have turned out to be scams. Even this one, AMHash, run by one of the "gods" of the Bitcoin universe.

Just as they say if you don't control your private key, you don't have any bitcoins, same can be said for mining hardware - if it's not under your roof, or at a cage in a data center that you have the keys to, you don't actually have any mining power, just the hope that whoever you gave your coins to will give some of them back as time goes by

[Lesbian Cow]

Hi Not Lamb Chop,

You were correct, Lesbian Cow knows when she is wrong.

Good job!

Fortunately I only risked a bit of grain, so no major worries.  My questions below still remain unanswered.

Cheers!

^One of my problems is idiots like you blaming me for their idiocy.  You don't understand what I said for the same reason you're such a failure as an investor--you're simply not bright enough.
You still haven't thanked me for warning you about Active Mining, where the fuck are your manners?

Hi Not Lamb Chop,

Are you that Marceau Popsicle guy?  The one riding a Camel in an ill fitting suit with an expression on his face like "who farted?".

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but I have been curious for a while - what happened to your alter ego MPeX-PR?  The one with the avatar of a hot looking robot like chick where I think I could see the beginnings of a nipple.  I miss you as that character.   When you posted as that character were you stroking your anus?  I always assumed you were.

Back on topic, Lesbian Cow is adding to her position in AM at these prices.  Can't see why Fried Cat would make such a public display if he was not in a position to deliver. 

[lophie]

Ok I think people around this thread need some tough love.

Friedcat and the people working behind the scenes in ASICMINER are multitudes more honest than most shit big corporate companies outthere. He could have ran with his friends with many many millions that he decided to give back to the shareholders as divs a long time ago. ASICMINER is going down and we all know it but it is not fair when big companies are exposed of screwing up the investors earlier the moment they foresee their doom in the future just so they can still secure themselves with many millions, it is not fair to be this aggressive to friedcat because ASICMINER is going down. You guys though this would be a gold trip for the next century or something? Alot of people here gave many calculations in expectation to this.

Some of you, actually just a few, few few few, Could have done this better when most are likely to screw it up way earlier. If you know that within yourself that you couldn't have done it better, If you know within yourself and be honest to what you rationally believed ASICMINER could do for you. You should be one of the people who keep the silence, and plan their exit.

No hate on you guys and please don't hate on me, this is just an honest opinion.

[PeterB]

So sad to see this happen to a once beloved member of the community 

[muyuu]

[...]

"needing to make a decent profit + taxes" applies to any sort of hardware sales business, not only cloudmining.

You make it seem like adding up all those extra costs associated with cloudmining will make it less profitable than home mining but that's just not the case. There are already several companies offering colocation at rates far below what the average home miner pays for electricity.

As for centralization, that's going to happen with or without cloudmining.

Unfortunately, this place seems to attract those without scruples.

Cloud mining sounds great in theory, but lots of operations have turned out to be scams. Even this one, AMHash, run by one of the "gods" of the Bitcoin universe.

Just as they say if you don't control your private key, you don't have any bitcoins, same can be said for mining hardware - if it's not under your roof, or at a cage in a data center that you have the keys to, you don't actually have any mining power, just the hope that whoever you gave your coins to will give some of them back as time goes by

The main problem with cloudmining is that it's based on the equivalent of a futures market, which simply cannot be directly run on a trust-less platform. It's just all too easy to keep the hashing, and exit scam with a bunch of coins and when enough people are involved, it seems statistically very likely that someone is going to be tempted by that scheme.

Now that's just basic cloudmining, like AMHash and others. The case for ASICMiner proper was a bit different because it made sense to ride investment for longer, as long as newer and better equipment kept coming or look like it could. Eventually, that died off and it went the route of cloudmining and exit scam (not sure who exactly was involved in that, but it most likely happened just like that).