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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3889968 times)
statdude
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April 25, 2013, 05:07:50 AM
 #3641

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?

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April 25, 2013, 05:15:37 AM
 #3642

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because AM will have their own exchange... maybe... sometime.

You can transfer your "real" shares to any PT.

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April 25, 2013, 05:15:53 AM
 #3643

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because friedcat decided to not relist shares on an exchange after GLBSE went down.
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April 25, 2013, 05:18:09 AM
 #3644

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?

Because the original IPO was on GLBSE and after the whole fiasco there, friedcat/bitfoundation decided to just set up their own exchange. They still have not done so (and I'm not sure they even care at this point - focus on getting hardware up and running), so the only manner of trading real shares is to email friedcat saying "I would like to transfer X shares from X address to Y address" from your email on file.

That is obviously tedious, and slower (since an Escrow might be required/wanted as well).

Thus - Passthrough's are set up. The 2 PT operators did the following:
1. Created the PT
2. Optioned the purchase of shares from large share holders (I think this was on both of them)
3. Allowed users to convert real shares to PT shares for simplicity in trading (and you can turn PT into real shares... minimum 250?).

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April 25, 2013, 06:15:46 AM
 #3645

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?
Because friedcat decided to not relist shares on an exchange after GLBSE went down.

And I don't blame him. Took me a long while to get over the anger before I relisted DMC.

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April 25, 2013, 09:15:14 AM
 #3646

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?


The exchange has to prove itself to be reliable, robust and trustworthy before AM is officially traded there.
BTC.TC seems to be on the good path towards this goal.


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April 25, 2013, 10:40:36 AM
 #3647

Hmm. I bought some shares from an auction [ineededausername] and he has confirmed all share transactions have taken place. I am yet to receive mine or associated dividends. I have PM friedcat also and no reply.

any ideas?

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April 25, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
 #3648

I also bought shares in that auction, however because I bought a big chunk and I paid promptly he split me off into a separate transaction.

I can tell you that whatever happened... he is honest and is not trying to scam you I would imagine, as I did get my dividends, and I am sure he will forward you any missed dividends if he ended up still holding the shares at the time.  He has transferred at least 705 shares of his out in the last week according to the blockchain.  What address did you send to him and friedcat to receive dividands at?

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April 25, 2013, 12:31:02 PM
 #3649

I'm sure it all be sorted out, Friedcat has done an excellent job in dealing with share trading since the collapse of GLBSE.

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April 25, 2013, 01:23:21 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2013, 11:17:42 PM by SebastianJu
 #3650

3. Allowed users to convert real shares to PT shares for simplicity in trading (and you can turn PT into real shares... minimum 250?).

Minimum 250 shares with deadterras PT. But he wrote me that number is not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it. Burnsides PT has minimum 1.

Because people often ask such questions i made a small overview about the pros/cons of having real shares or PT-Shares and the pros/cons of the both PTs.

Please correct any wrong or missing infos. I would like to post this post in a new thread to cover all the questions "where to buy", differences PT and so on...

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* Direct Contract with friedcat
* No Fees (Only donations for escrow while trading shares, if one was used. But thats not needed if youre greedy.)
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares
Con:
* Harder to trade / Slower access to bitcoins/shares. Find an auction, start a thread or check the orderbook thread that is dead now. But maybe you find a relatively new offer in the orderbook thread and you can contact the user via pm about this.
* Possibility that you have to buy starting from a certain amount of shares, for example starting from 10 or 50. Means you need more money to invest often.
* Escrow needed for security in trading (there are free escrows, but a donation would be nice)

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Pro:
* Easily tradeable on the exchanges / Faster access to bitcoins/shares
Con:
* Fees
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares
* No direct contract with friedcat but with burnside/deadterra, adding another small layer of insecurity
* Bound to an exchange, adding another small layer of insecurity

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 1 share
* btct.co: "Deposits: Free | Withdrawals: 0 BTC FLAT FEE | Transfers (BTC): Free | Transfers (Assets): Free | Issue Dividends: Free"
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: 0.5 BTC fee for exchanging AM-PT to AM-Shares or the other way around. Per transaction, not per Share!
* AM-PT: "A management fee of X% will be levied on each dividend payment where X is determined by the number of shares currently managed by the pass through.  For under 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 3%.  For over 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 2%.  For over 3000 shares, the management fee shall be 1.5%.  For over 5000 shares the management fee shall be 1%.  For over 10000 shares the management fee shall be 0.5%."
* btct.co: Trading-Fees: "Trades using 2FA (Buyer): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades using 2FA (Seller): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades not using 2FA (Buyer): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)
Trades not using 2FA (Seller): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)"

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: Each G.ASICMINER-PT share has the right to 100% of the dividends of 1 ASICMINER share. (No management fee)
* AM-PT: Transferring AM-PT-Shares to AM-Shares or the other way around have no fee
* bitfunder.com: Buying shares has no fee.
* bitfunder.com: No other fess than selling fees.
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 250 shares (not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it)
* bitfunder.com: Selling fees range between between 1% and 0.5%(or lower with discounts) based on your account tier.
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

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April 25, 2013, 05:25:17 PM
 #3651

I need update so baaad...  Angry
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April 25, 2013, 05:30:47 PM
 #3652

...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b

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April 25, 2013, 06:34:20 PM
 #3653

hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!
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April 25, 2013, 06:54:00 PM
 #3654

hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!
Hopefully so, and then friedcat is waiting to finish for the update.  That's what I am hoping!

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April 25, 2013, 07:06:52 PM
 #3655

...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b

Thanks. I would like that all errors and missing infos are being put into. So that maybe a sticky thread could be made out of it.

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April 25, 2013, 07:26:32 PM
 #3656

Now at 7.6 on BTC Guild. I know ASICMiner is deploying to other pools, any idea if the hashing is showing up anywhere else?

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April 25, 2013, 07:43:50 PM
 #3657

Now at 7.6 on BTC Guild. I know ASICMiner is deploying to other pools, any idea if the hashing is showing up anywhere else?

7,664.05 GH/s now Smiley

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April 25, 2013, 08:02:02 PM
 #3658

Great summary, SebastianJu. Just wanted to add:

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Con:
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

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April 25, 2013, 08:38:29 PM
 #3659

Fixed?

Great summary, SebastianJu. Just wanted to add:

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares

Con:
* Harder to liquidate the asset

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Pro:
* Easier to liquidate and buy backs

Con:
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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April 25, 2013, 08:44:51 PM
 #3660

Fixed?

I believe your points about the liquidity are already in the original summary by SebastianJu? I was just adding points about the dividends and delays, so I felt there was no need to requote everything.

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