70 years after the Victory: Lest We Forget (despite every effort to do so)

[TECSHARE]

The USSR and the Nazi Germany were both leftist countries (yes, you read well: leftist)

"fascist = leftist"
-Snail2



Nazi Germany = Fascism = top right hand corner.

Nazis = National Socialist German Workers' Party

Socialism = leftist

Check & mate.

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[Schleicher]

Nazis = National Socialist German Workers' Party
Socialism = leftist
Check & mate.

That's only a name.
Don't look at names and words. Look at their actions.
Also: please define 'left'

[Snail2]

The following fragment of a comment by Lada Ray to a reader comment to her post here
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/crazy-asylum-called-ukraine-west-wont-give-us-weapons-if-we-have-peace/
is very much worth reading on its own:

I like Lada Ray's articles but in this case I'm afraid she seriously overlooked something. Apart from the Serbians and the jews, nobody really seen the soviet army as liberators. They were seen as yet another occupying army and as they didn't went home after the war but stayed almost everywhere across Central Europe to support puppet governments and suppress rebellions, they were actually an occupying army indeed. You see, I can understand when Russian people expecting positive feedback for their efforts and sacrifices, but Stalin and his successors, together with their puppets screwed that up badly. They replaced one kind of tyranny with an other similarly bad one. The memory of the soup kitchens usually fading away pretty quickly when some NKVD trained and supervised state security officer tearing away your fingernails or beating your kids before your eyes to extract a confession about your anticommunist deeds.

[vrm86]

Here are your Soviet  liberators giving nazis high fives in 1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)  after they together tore Poland apart.

There are many interesting (and inconvinient for USSR fanboys) facts about Hitler's and Stalin's cooperation before 1941.

[Nemo1024]

Here are your Soviet  liberators giving nazis high fives in 1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)  after they together tore Poland apart.

There are many interesting (and inconvinient for USSR fanboys) facts about Hitler's and Stalin's cooperation before 1941.

Sigh. I think I'll have to repeat myself from the following post:

That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

To add to that, once you mention Poland, why not also remember that during the Yalta conference, Stalin insisted that Poland gets a much longer coastal line than what Churchill and Roosevelt proposed, and so it happened. But this is probably not that convenient to remember now, according to the new American party line.

About the inconvenient facts that you mention. Interestingly, in 1992, in Russia there was published a book "Fascist sword was wrought in USSR". You can read it in Russian here: http://vk.com/doc8157_289122059?hash=d6b0e1a402ea26a0f2&dl=28e20800fab4e65463
Again, look at the bigger picture. Germany under economic and military blockade, USSR is too. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... until all hell breaks lose. Germany had a very strong spy network in USSR, and in many occasions Soviet innovations, that were not meant for Germany, ended up there anyway.

The following fragment of a comment by Lada Ray to a reader comment to her post here
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/crazy-asylum-called-ukraine-west-wont-give-us-weapons-if-we-have-peace/
is very much worth reading on its own:

I like Lada Ray's articles but in this case I'm afraid she seriously overlooked something. Apart from the Serbians and the jews, nobody really seen the soviet army as liberators. They were seen as yet another occupying army and as they didn't went home after the war but stayed almost everywhere across Central Europe to support puppet governments and suppress rebellions, they were actually an occupying army indeed. You see, I can understand when Russian people expecting positive feedback for their efforts and sacrifices, but Stalin and his successors, together with their puppets screwed that up badly. They replaced one kind of tyranny with an other similarly bad one. The memory of the soup kitchens usually fading away pretty quickly when some NKVD trained and supervised state security officer tearing away your fingernails or beating your kids before your eyes to extract a confession about your anticommunist deeds.

Snail2, I don't entirely disagree with you here, but I'd say that you are also overlooking several things.
1. To be fair, neither did USA pull out of Western Europe after WWII, but stayed there. And is staying still, long after USSR both pulled out and got itself dissolved. Not only USA continue stay, they also expanded their presence eastwards. USA used different methods for domination of Europe, but you will find a fair share of US puppet government's in Europe now, and a fair share of mind control through MSM. Let's say that the tools USA uses are less crude than that of USSR.
2. A large portion of Russians would themselves have liked to see the end of the Soviet system and Stalin and NKVD and fear of imprisonment and of loony bins (during Brezhnev). There should be a differentiation between the WWII and how its end came about and the subsequent events. The memory/memorial of the first should not become a beating stock for the second.
3. It's not just "soup kitchens". When it comes to Hungary and Romania, USSR didn't demand any reparations, though it was fully within its rights to do so. Moreover, Eastern European countries, including Romania and Hugary, were rebuilt in record short time span at the cost of rebuilding of USSR itself. This alone should be remembered. But, as Zotov noted, the negative aspects are remembered, but everything that was positive is eradicated with prejudice.


On the note of bullet-point 1 in my reply to Snail2... The American ambassador to Czechia made a statement on the state Czech TV, condemning the Czech President for going to attend the 70th anniversary Victory parade in Moscow.
I really liked the Czech President's firm response. He said that he can't imagine a Czech ambassador telling the American president how to conduct his foreign affairs, and that he will not tolerate any ambassador telling him what to do. He further said that the American ambassador is no longer welcome at Prague City government complex.

[Nemo1024]

On the note of bullet-point 1 in my reply to Snail2... The American ambassador to Czechia made a statement on the state Czech TV, condemning the Czech President for going to attend the 70th anniversary Victory parade in Moscow.
I really liked the Czech President's firm response. He said that he can't imagine a Czech ambassador telling the American president how to conduct his foreign affairs, and that he will not tolerate any ambassador telling him what to do. He further said that the American ambassador is no longer welcome at Prague City government complex.

And the bought-by-America Czech government has launched a full out attack on Czech president for intending to visit the Victory Parade on the 9th of May, threatening that they will not finance this visit.

[bryant.coleman]

On the note of bullet-point 1 in my reply to Snail2... The American ambassador to Czechia made a statement on the state Czech TV, condemning the Czech President for going to attend the 70th anniversary Victory parade in Moscow.
I really liked the Czech President's firm response. He said that he can't imagine a Czech ambassador telling the American president how to conduct his foreign affairs, and that he will not tolerate any ambassador telling him what to do. He further said that the American ambassador is no longer welcome at Prague City government complex.

The ultimate aim of the Nazis were to exterminate the Czech people from both Moravia and Bohemia and repopulate those areas with ethnic Germans (as done previously in Sudetenland). The Soviets foiled that plan. The American ambassador needs a lesson or two in history.

[lucullus]

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

[bryant.coleman]

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

[Nemo1024]

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

This, and the fact that the allies joined in the fight only after it became clear that USSR would win, after Stalingrad. Before that the USSR's requests for help in the form of opening the second front remained unheeded.

[EvilPanda]

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

Is that what they teach you in your Russian schools? If not for the Russian and their help in securing Poland Hitler would have to dedicate much more time and resources in that region. If on the other hand Russians broke the agreement and defended Poland... But their move was to be expected since both Germany and Russia shared flawed socialist ideology.

[Nemo1024]

statistically speaking, it was the other legs of the Allied Powers that were the reason for the Soviets victory

Take your BS to somewhere else. 75% of the German army and a large part of the Japanese were involved in fighting the Soviets. Without the Soviets London would be speaking German instead of English now.

Is that what they teach you in your Russian schools? If not for the Russian and their help in securing Poland Hitler would have to dedicate much more time and resources in that region. If on the other hand Russians broke the agreement and defended Poland... But their move was to be expected since both Germany and Russia shared flawed socialist ideology.

I see the re-written reasons for non-aggression pact are strongly indoctrinated in the Western minds.

For the third time.

Sigh. I think I'll have to repeat myself from the following post:

That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

If on the other hand Russians broke the agreement and defended Poland... Then USSR would have lost, and Poland would be speaking German now, along with Russia and the rest the Europe.

To add to that, once you mention Poland, why not also remember that during the Yalta conference, Stalin insisted that Poland gets a much longer coastal line than what Churchill and Roosevelt proposed, and so it happened. But this is probably not that convenient to remember now, according to the new American party line.

I'll make a separate post with a map on that topic.

Also, Germany's National-Socialist and Soviet Communist ideologies were rather different.

[Nemo1024]

I translated an article, accounting memories of war from one of the participants of the first Victory Parade, Stanislav Lapin:

http://stanislavs.org/wwii-veteran-stanislav-lapin-i-had-my-own-score-with-hitler/

[EvilPanda]

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.

[bryant.coleman]

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.

The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange was necessary, as large parts of the then Poland had majority populations of Belorussians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who never accepted the Polish domination of their lands. Poland ceded its eastern territories, which were having a majority of Belorussians and other ethnic groups, while they gained territories such as Silesia and East Pomerania, where Poles constituted a simple majority.

[Hazir]

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.

The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange was necessary, as large parts of the then Poland had majority populations of Belorussians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who never accepted the Polish domination of their lands. Poland ceded its eastern territories, which were having a majority of Belorussians and other ethnic groups, while they gained territories such as Silesia and East Pomerania, where Poles constituted a simple majority.

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange

[Nemo1024]

Oh, I forgot how generous Stalin was in Yalta. He later robbed the country of its resources for years, for example in "The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange", where they moved the border to annex rich coal deposits, that belonged to Poland. Say what you like I will never feel thankful to the Soviets, they did more harm than good in Europe.

The 1951 Polish–Soviet territorial exchange was necessary, as large parts of the then Poland had majority populations of Belorussians, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who never accepted the Polish domination of their lands. Poland ceded its eastern territories, which were having a majority of Belorussians and other ethnic groups, while they gained territories such as Silesia and East Pomerania, where Poles constituted a simple majority.

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange

Let's start with a minor little thing, not worth mentioning at all. If not for the Soviet Union, there would be no Poles left today. But who cares about those little buggers, eh? Evil USSR saved them, how rude of USSR... Yeah, coal... That was sarcasm. Obviously, you are one of those, to whom land is more important than people.

And to EvilPanda, if USSR did harm in Europe, than USA did a tenfold amount of it, and in contrast to USSR, USA is still doing harm in Europe today.

Now, about territories, here is a map:

The white squares point to territories that changed hands after WWII. I'll translated the related article later...

[bryant.coleman]

Really? It was 'necessary' for the good of the people and had nothing to do with rich coal deposits at all, right. How generous of USSR! Poland received unhabitant forests and USSR grabbed rich coal deposits. "Officially, the Polish side claimed that the exchange took place on Warsaw’s initiative. However, in the early 1950s, Poland was de facto ruled by Moscow and all decisions were taken there. The Soviets claimed that the area of Ustrzyki possessed deposits of oil, but it turned out that all sources had been exploited". You can read more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_territorial_exchange

OK..... First give back the territories which you got from Germany (Silesia, East Prussia, East Pomerania.etc). Then let's talk about the territories which Poland ceded to the USSR. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Nemo1024]

Looks like the Czech President got pressured after all. He will come to Moscow, but will not attend the Parade, using the time for talks with Slovak PM:
http://ria.ru/politics/20150410/1057789887.html

[Nemo1024]

In memory of all those fallen when liberating Crimea 71 years ago.

“Sophie” against Canaris. She fought for USSR, but became Hero of Russia
http://stanislavs.org/sophie-against-canaris-she-fought-for-ussr-but-became-hero-of-russia/