Pool Manager Fraud?

[Geremia]

A pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

[1714052660]

1714052660

[loshia]

I can recomend following pools the order is random
Bitminter
Kano
Btcguild

Because I trust the people who run the pools. That is a personal opinion of course

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool,  f2pool and so on. I am talking about all CHINESE pools in general

If you feel brave you can go solo take all or nothing you got the jar and the honey if you are lucky

P2pool is ok also but you will face "jar" unrelated issues there....

[Geremia]

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool

My friend uses AntPool, but doesn't truest Eligius for some reason…

[loshia]

I will avoid at any cost a Antpool

My friend uses AntPool, but doesn't truest Eligius for some reason…

As I said it is up to you to decide.....
That is all I can say....
All of the above is just my personal opinion.
Not mentioning a particular pool in my list does just means I have no impressions from pool and I have not used it.but once again important part is what to avoid in my oppinion 
Good luck to you

[cathoderay]

I can recomend following pools the order is random
Bitminter
Kano
Btcguild

Because I trust the people who run the pools. That is a personal opinion of course

Good choices. I'll add to that list of pools to avoid:

BAN
Ghash.io

Both got caught with their pants down......

[rkinnin]

I pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

I have been mining for a year now, two weeks ago.

What I have noticed is that most Pool Mgrs are part-timers. 

I am curious.....what financial benefit does a reputable pool manager get for their efforts??

[bhanu545]

I tried almost all the famous pools and i can say pool managers can steal if they want to without getting caught. Everyone has their own versions on the pools they use. So, try yourself and stick to any pool you like. Earnings are mainly affected by pools badluck, good luck. About pool owners stealing candy, no one can trace them you can consider it as a donation if they are really stealing because, all you can do is nothing 

[OgNasty]

I trust these guys.   

[Meuh6879]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool. 
Easy.

[kano]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool. 
Easy.

Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

[sgk]

BAN
Ghash.io

Both got caught with their pants down......

I'm not aware of what happened with Ghash.io

Can you please elaborate?

[organofcorti]

I pro miner I know, who outputs 2+ ptaHash/sec, said to me "Every major pool had been caught with their hand in the cookie jar."

Is this true? Which pools should I avoid, due to their managers being fraudulent?

This is bullshit. If I were you I'd ask for proof, but I don't think your friend has any chance of providing it. It was probably just hyperbola on his part.

[IYFTech]

I'm not aware of what happened with Ghash.io

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0

[armedmilitia]

I recommend slush, they're the first mining pool ever, still running today.
They have a 2% fee, but they're pretty stable. And low variance too because they have a pretty big market share. (5%)

[Geremia]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool. 
Easy.

Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:

Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

?

[jonnybravo0311]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  
Easy.

Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:

Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

?

Kano means that you need to setup your node and ensure it has decent hardware... Is connected to other widely connected nodes... Is ideally on the same network as your mining hardware... You want to ensure that you get as few dead/orphan shares as possible and that you have a low DOA rate.  The better connected you are the better your chances of being successful in submitting viable shares and reaping the full rewards when a block is found.

Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.

[kano]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  
Easy.

Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:

Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

?

... and to add more explanation
A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.
You don't send out a p2pool share and get it every time.
If 2 p2pool shares are sent out, built off the same previous p2pool share, one of them will not be paid.
Add on top of that, the p2pool share chain averages a new share every ~30s instead of ~600s like the block chain, so network connectivity and latency has 20x the effect.

For the Bitcoin block chain, to get the least block orphans, a pool (or solo) must ensure it is well connected, has low block distribution latency to the rest of the bitcoin network, is able to process incoming shares quickly, and, of course, the pool itself isn't struggling to get enough CPU for bitcoind

Thus on p2pool the same issue exists with p2pool share chain shares.
The p2pool nodes with the same attributes above will lose fewer shares.
When you notice that something like 10% of p2pool shares are DOA/Stale you need to realise that is only the average.
So if someone is consistently getting 5% DOA/Stale due to having a good setup, that means 95% of their work is being paid instead of only 90% like the p2pool average.
i.e. they get a better share of each block for the work they submit.

Every new share on the p2pool share chain means you need your p2pool to know about it as quickly as possible and switch your miners to the new work based on the latest successful share in the share chain.
Any delays with those ~30s p2pool share chain updates and that delay represents how much time of the ~30s average you are hashing work that wont be paid.
Using a remote p2pool, of course, exacerbates the latency issue due to the ~30s average.
Using a miner that takes time to switch work also makes that a problem since it is all about what % of ~30s you are working on the latest p2pool share chain share.

...
Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.

~95% of DOA/Stale shares on p2pool that are also blocks, are valid bitcoin blocks.

[Mikestang]

Trust no-one ... use P2Pool.  
Easy.

Wow, thank you for bringing P2Pool to my attention. I'd never heard of it before, but it's an ingenious idea.

What do you mean:

Just remember to setup a good p2pool mining setup as good as the best ones on p2pool.
Otherwise the other miners on p2pool with a better setup are taking some of your BTC ...

?

... and to add more explanation
A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.
You don't send out a p2pool share and get it every time.
If 2 p2pool shares are sent out, built off the same previous p2pool share, one of them will not be paid.
Add on top of that, the p2pool share chain averages a new share every ~30s instead of ~600s like the block chain, so network connectivity and latency has 20x the effect.

For the Bitcoin block chain, to get the least block orphans, a pool (or solo) must ensure it is well connected, has low block distribution latency to the rest of the bitcoin network, is able to process incoming shares quickly, and, of course, the pool itself isn't struggling to get enough CPU for bitcoind

Thus on p2pool the same issue exists with p2pool share chain shares.
The p2pool nodes with the same attributes above will lose fewer shares.
When you notice that something like 10% of p2pool shares are DOA/Stale you need to realise that is only the average.
So if someone is consistently getting 5% DOA/Stale due to having a good setup, that means 95% of their work is being paid instead of only 90% like the p2pool average.
i.e. they get a better share of each block for the work they submit.

Every new share on the p2pool share chain means you need your p2pool to know about it as quickly as possible and switch your miners to the new work based on the latest successful share in the share chain.
Any delays with those ~30s p2pool share chain updates and that delay represents how much time of the ~30s average you are hashing work that wont be paid.
Using a remote p2pool, of course, exacerbates the latency issue due to the ~30s average.
Using a miner that takes time to switch work also makes that a problem since it is all about what % of ~30s you are working on the latest p2pool share chain share.

...
Also ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.  The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.

~95% of DOA/Stale shares on p2pool that are also blocks, are valid bitcoin blocks.

And this is why I mine in Kano's pool, the fact that he took the time to explain how another pool functions (not because of how p2pool operates).  You have to trust the people who run the pool, otherwise you could be short changing yourself.

[Geremia]

A share on the p2pool share chain is pretty much the same as a block on the Bitcoin block chain.

Conceptually, but certainly not difficulty-wise.

[Geremia]

ensure that your miners are submitting stale shares.

Yes, bfgminer, for example, has the option "--submit-stale".

The standard firmware on Ants for example discards them... Even though they may be valid solutions for a block.

Why does "The standard firmware on Ants for example discards" stale shares?