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Author Topic: Sick of the confirmation time...  (Read 3984 times)
manselr
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March 19, 2015, 11:15:35 PM
 #41

People who are “sick of the confirmation time” don't understand that you can accept payments with 0 confirmations just fine.

Still it doesn't help when you want to move your funds to an exchange or some other place that doesn't allow you to use your money without multiple confirmations.
I had a number of transactions with a normal fee, that took more than an hour to confirm, which is quite annoying.
Yeah ,its a major pain in the ass moving coins to an exchange and withdrawing them. This is why day traders tend to leave their coins on the exchanges, which is a risk because of all the hacking incidents.

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March 19, 2015, 11:24:53 PM
 #42

To the sect that says "Satoshi got everything perfect", complaints like this fall on deaf ears.

To the rest of us... yes, it is an issue. It shouldn't cause any issues for online shopping and such, once more vendors accept it, but for in-person/point of sale transacting, the waits for confirmations will really hold it back.

And YES - I know that if we had an alternate crypto with 1 minute blocks, a transaction would be no more secure with 10 confirmations behind it, than 1 confirmation from the Bitcoin network and its 10 minute blocks. But to simply see it's been accepted into a block, for low value transactions, that should be acceptable to most. Many argue that for low value transactions, zero confirms are acceptable, but to me, that's unacceptable, and the only reason people put that forth is because of the 10 minute wait.

 But yeah. 10 minute block times only mean that thats what the network is targeting. Occasionally, a new block is found immediately after the previous. Other times, the time between blocks can be multitudes longer than 10 minutes. Not much you can do bu sit and wait it out...
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March 19, 2015, 11:45:22 PM
 #43

What is holding 0 confirmations from happening? Because i feel what you are saying OP it can be super annoying waiting for a transaction to get a confirm and a little scary if you have a large amount try to confirm. Is there anyway to solve this? Because if there is not then we just need to accept it and move on, as long as you are not really in need like i have been in a poker tourny waiting for it to confirm so i could get a add on but is that confirmation times fault or should i have prepared and sent earlier, i go with the latter..

TC is the worse thing to happen to default, needs to open his eyes and not jump to conclusions, not everyone lies!!! Anyway as promised I have left, pass word changed to long random which I will forget like that plonker who ruined a perfectly fine account.
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March 19, 2015, 11:46:51 PM
 #44

but for in-person/point of sale transacting, the waits for confirmations will really hold it back

Again, merchants can accept unconfirmed transactions in this case, and they do in real usage.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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March 20, 2015, 01:52:48 AM
 #45

LTC confirms much faster.
Each confirmation on the litecoin network is much less secure and less certain to actually be included in the litecoin blockchain. Additionally the litecoin network has a much lower hashrate, so it would take a lot less for someone to attack it.

For both of the above reasons even having one confirmation on the litecoin network is generally less secure then having a 0/unconfirmed transaction on the bitcoin network

generally speaking, a well propagated transaction, with a 'proper' tx fee that does not spend any unconfirmed inputs should be considered to be "safe" after only a few seconds on the bitcoin network
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March 20, 2015, 05:47:24 AM
 #46

People who are “sick of the confirmation time” don't understand that you can accept payments with 0 confirmations just fine.

Still it doesn't help when you want to move your funds to an exchange or some other place that doesn't allow you to use your money without multiple confirmations.
I had a number of transactions with a normal fee, that took more than an hour to confirm, which is quite annoying.
Yeah ,its a major pain in the ass moving coins to an exchange and withdrawing them. This is why day traders tend to leave their coins on the exchanges, which is a risk because of all the hacking incidents.
I don't think it is a hassle since it would take a lot more time to move money from bank to other places while Bitcoins only take an hour or two max to get 6 confirmations. The past hacking accidents shouldn't be a problem if they choose a reputable exchange with fairly clean history. If an exchange  hack happens once, it doesn't mean other exchanges would also be hacked.
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March 20, 2015, 12:18:16 PM
 #47

Usually it's not an issue for me. I will find my own stuff to do and when I'm back it's done. But however, if you are in a hurry, that will really get on your nerves and I believe that's the main reason preventing mass retail adoption because there's a need to have it done quickly and move on and out of the store with the product. So that is something we have to live on with it for now. However having said that cross-border transaction would be fine and there is where bitcoin comes in useful.

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March 21, 2015, 12:44:46 AM
 #48

LTC confirms much faster.

This is a disturbingly common misconception.  The security afforded by a 2.5 minute average confirmation block is 1/4 that of a 10 minute average confirmation block.

IT might be 1/4 as much security, but, at least for that first confirmation, you can at least see that it had valid inputs. That is worlds more security than accepting a zero confirmation transaction.
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March 21, 2015, 12:54:10 AM
 #49

but for in-person/point of sale transacting, the waits for confirmations will really hold it back

Again, merchants can accept unconfirmed transactions in this case, and they do in real usage.
There is no need to cry over long confirmations times. As it is not that important in my opinion. You only need fast confirmation time in one scenario.
And it is when you have no coins at all and you are awaiting payment, and that not confirmed coins you want to use asap for other payment of yours.


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March 21, 2015, 01:07:01 AM
 #50

And YES - I know that if we had an alternate crypto with 1 minute blocks, a transaction would be no more secure with 10 confirmations behind it, than 1 confirmation from the Bitcoin network and its 10 minute blocks. But to simply see it's been accepted into a block, for low value transactions, that should be acceptable to most. Many argue that for low value transactions, zero confirms are acceptable, but to me, that's unacceptable, and the only reason people put that forth is because of the 10 minute wait.

In practical terms, double-spends (even without block confirmations) require collusion with a miner (specifically, the miner who mines the next block).  Good luck with that.  It may sound scary to accept payment with 0 confirmations, but it is by no definition risky.  If you are connected to the network and see the transaction broadcast, with no conflicting transaction immediately sent, then you can go ahead and make the guy's coffee.

Retailers know this, and they understand that the miniscule risk involved is absolutely nothing compared to the serious risk involved in accepting credit cards, checks, and cash.  Chargebacks are a way of life, and an extremely costly one.  Checks bounce.  Cash is counterfeited, more often than many know.  Who bears the brunt of these risks?  The retailer.

I see plenty of people bemoaning the 10-minute confirmation time. What I don't see is complaints from the retailers.
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March 21, 2015, 01:10:27 AM
 #51

IT might be 1/4 as much security, but, at least for that first confirmation, you can at least see that it had valid inputs. That is worlds more security than accepting a zero confirmation transaction.

Are you implying that that there is a requirement for a miner's confirmation to verify valid inputs?  Any node can (and does, all day, every day) verify inputs before relaying the transaction.  There is absolutely no reason to wait for a block to be mined if all you're concerned about is verifying inputs.
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March 21, 2015, 01:48:14 AM
 #52

Yes, indeed, btc has slowest confirmation compared to other good altcoins, like top 10 coins DRK and Doge are much quicker than btc with less than 1 min confirmation time.

But btc is the prototype of crypto currency, that's why btc still has biggest market cap even with 30-60 minutes confirmation time.

In the future, if btc gets wider, Doge will surpass LTC, i guess, LTC is the other slow coin with 5 conf time.

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March 21, 2015, 01:53:54 AM
 #53

Think of the confirmations as a clearing house. Everything you do before is like off-chain and trust based, after the clearinghouse was at it, you know that its safe.

If you have some trust 0conf is no problem.

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March 21, 2015, 02:00:14 AM
 #54

It is up to the service provider like bitpay and coinbase to solve this problem, other than bitcoin network. The latter ought to be supreme stable and anti 51% attack. So  10 min average is ok for me.

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March 21, 2015, 02:02:22 AM
 #55

I have never had over 20 minutes for a confirmation.
yeponlyone
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March 21, 2015, 02:03:52 AM
 #56

It is up to the service provider like bitpay and coinbase to solve this problem, other than bitcoin network. The latter ought to be supreme stable and anti 51% attack. So  10 min average is ok for me.
They can't prevent double spend when there is a 51% attack. Any transactions at even 6 confirmations can be doublespent. They just take risk to confirm transactions with no network confirmation. By checking any competing transactions and made sure the transactions have propagated well.
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March 21, 2015, 02:06:30 AM
 #57

Think of the confirmations as a clearing house. Everything you do before is like off-chain and trust based, after the clearinghouse was at it, you know that its safe.

If you have some trust 0conf is no problem.

LOL, but viacoin lacks of liquidity, marketing, seldom people use that, so there is no advantage on clearing house at all.

Quick confirmation time is important, but DRK and Doge is not slower than viacoin, and they two have much better liquidity and larger trading volume.

So viacoin doesn't have any advantages, clearing house is not a good choice, although I had tons of viacoins some months ago.
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March 21, 2015, 02:12:25 AM
 #58

Think of the confirmations as a clearing house. Everything you do before is like off-chain and trust based, after the clearinghouse was at it, you know that its safe.

If you have some trust 0conf is no problem.

LOL, but viacoin lacks of liquidity, marketing, seldom people use that, so there is no advantage on clearing house at all.

Quick confirmation time is important, but DRK and Doge is not slower than viacoin, and they two have much better liquidity and larger trading volume.

So viacoin doesn't have any advantages, clearing house is not a good choice, although I had tons of viacoins some months ago.

Good lord....

When I talk about clearing house I mean that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearing_house_%28finance%29

not a shitcoin

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March 21, 2015, 10:39:31 AM
 #59

BTC conformation time is horrible. Especially when you are transferring funds to an exchange or something and you have to wait for 6 confirmations before you can spend your coins. Takes an HOUR at least. Darkcoin and the new instant X is awesome. Takes about 30 SECONDS for 6 confirms. so cool.

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March 21, 2015, 12:13:25 PM
 #60

I agree that the wait seems a bit uncool. We want our money fast!  Grin

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