If Pirate Runs: The Danger of one entity with 500K BTC

[niko]

^^^
Word. Bitcoin truly need to be stress tested. Pirate is doing us all a favour.

This is true in many ways. Stress-testing the system, teaching lessons (some paid high tuition fees, though)...

[1714666239]

1714666239

[1714666239]

1714666239

[Lupus_Yonderboy]

What do you mean if he runs? Actually he won't need to run, he can stay right where he is, drop offline, and retire. There isn't one single f'n thing any of you can do about it either. This is the free market in all its glory. No regulations, no accountability, no recourse when you get fucked in the ass without any lube. Pirate will get away with this scot free. There will be all the hand wringing, all the apologists, and all the blaming of the victims. But in the end, it all comes down to there being zero accountability in this "free" market. If there is no punishment for theft, then there is no deterrent. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for a Bitcoin theft, and they never will be. So thieves and con men will continue to operate and win every single time. Pirate used the core greed that most people on this site have, and he used it to great effect. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the greed of Bitcoiners. In fact, a lot of people have gotten rich off of it.

So, how much have you contributed to Pirate's retirement fund?

[conspirosphere.tk]

If there is no punishment for theft, then there is no deterrent.

It is to be proven that there will be no punishment. For this boatload of money I would not be surprised if some big lender will decide to hire some bad asses on the Black Market Reloaded to get Pirate and slice him with a chainsaw until he pays back.

[evoorhees]

Still hypothetically,    I hope the bitcoin community has considered the very real danger posed by an individual in control of 500K of BTC. Sure there are accounts with balances almost as high but what is to prevent Pirate or anyone else with so much BTC from cyclically crashing the market and buying up more coins?

Some might say that someone with so many coins wouldn't destroy the market as they are so invested in it, but what happens if their Buy/Sell cycle doesn't destroy bitcoin in the long run, but they are just taking a wager that they can pull it off enough times while bitcoin is small enough and then quit misbehaving when it's bigger?

Even if you can't regularly do $15 to $8, even 1-2$ in change often enough could eventually give you monopolistic power over the bitcoin system.

For bitcoin's sake- I hope Pirate Returns the money, and the community stays away from such "financial innovation" in the future, even if it's not a ponzi.

So you're saying... he'll sell $1 of Bitcoin, sending the price down, then buy $1 of Bitcoin, sending the price up... and then he'll profit from that over and over?

Interesting business idea. Let me know how it goes.

There is zero danger of having one entity with 500k coins. The WORST outcome is if that person dumped all coins instantly. It would crash the price. Then what would happen? People like myself would buy up the cheap coins, the price would find some new stabilization level, and the "grave danger" would be gone. Someone with that many coins can crash the price, but only once. Problems solved.

It's a non issue.

[Timbert33]

What do you mean if he runs? Actually he won't need to run, he can stay right where he is, drop offline, and retire. There isn't one single f'n thing any of you can do about it either. This is the free market in all its glory. No regulations, no accountability, no recourse when you get fucked in the ass without any lube. Pirate will get away with this scot free. There will be all the hand wringing, all the apologists, and all the blaming of the victims. But in the end, it all comes down to there being zero accountability in this "free" market. If there is no punishment for theft, then there is no deterrent. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for a Bitcoin theft, and they never will be. So thieves and con men will continue to operate and win every single time. Pirate used the core greed that most people on this site have, and he used it to great effect. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the greed of Bitcoiners. In fact, a lot of people have gotten rich off of it.

So, how much have you contributed to Pirate's retirement fund?

$0. Nothing wrong with blaming the victims in this case. They are the fucktards that allowed themselves to be taken advantage of. 7% weekly interest rate is IMPOSSIBLE in any legitimate business no matter what. With the possible exception of a very SHORT TERM loan to sell drugs, or something like that. Regardless, it would not amount to millions of dollars and ridiculous interest rates over an extended period because you would pay back that interest and the loan to get full ownership of your business back ASAP so that you were making all the profit off of it. Thieves and con men won't win if people aren't morons, they'll just waste their time.

[the_thing]

If it can be killed someone will do it eventually, so might as well be now, we'll be better off. If not it will just prove that it's stronger than people think.

Do you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

Oh god I laughed so hard. Everybody lies, even in real life.

Now I don't know if you understood the irony in my post.
I meant to say that pirate saying he has 500k is not a proof that it's true.

[the_thing]

Nothing wrong with blaming the victims in this case. They are the fucktards that allowed themselves to be taken advantage of. (...) Thieves and con men won't win if people aren't morons, they'll just waste their time.

THIS! Million fucking times THIS!
The best way to improve Bitcoin is to eradicate stupidity among its users.

[RodeoX]

If it seems to good to be true, then it probably is. But I think it would be harder to get away with than some are saying. I suppose that some people have thousands in this scheme/investment opportunity. Knowing that bitcoiners are more tech savy than most and more self starting, it might be bad for his health to run. After all, isn't BTC the perfect choice for hiring a hit man?

But he hasn't run yet, or done anything wrong yet.

[Timo Y]

If he runs we're going to find out how quickly he can be found with a 500K BTC price tag on his head, and when he is, will he still have the head?

I wonder, what is the effective price tag on the other famous pirate in the bitcoin ecosystem? Prob much higher than 5M USD.

Considering that said pirate is still cheerfully going about his business after a whole year of being declared public enemy by a US Senator, I doubt that "our" pirate will be found any time soon.

[dbox]

Is there any room for some consipracy theories? Maybe pirate is not one person...

[Spekulatius]

If he runs we're going to find out how quickly he can be found with a 500K BTC price tag on his head, and when he is, will he still have the head?

I wonder, what is the effective price tag on the other famous pirate in the bitcoin ecosystem? Prob much higher than 5M USD.

Considering that said pirate is still cheerfully going about his business after a whole year of being declared public enemy by a US Senator, I doubt that "our" pirate will be found any time soon.

Has it ever accurred to you, that the two pirates may in fact be one?

[Timbert33]

If he runs we're going to find out how quickly he can be found with a 500K BTC price tag on his head, and when he is, will he still have the head?

I wonder, what is the effective price tag on the other famous pirate in the bitcoin ecosystem? Prob much higher than 5M USD.

Considering that said pirate is still cheerfully going about his business after a whole year of being declared public enemy by a US Senator, I doubt that "our" pirate will be found any time soon.

Has it ever accurred to you, that the two pirates may in fact be one?

Highly doubtful.

[Le Happy Merchant]

If pirate returns part upfront, and lets the big players dump the price down to 4-5 or lower, he could scoop in with the profits he supposedly made in the last few days, and buy the coins he just released control over for a fraction of the price they were while he held them.

This way, he initially doesn't look like a scammer, but can become one after he has bought a good deal of the coins back for cheap, and refuses to pay back the other investors.

The price would react to the withheld coins by spiking back upwards to double digits as people buy up the 'cheap' coins and panic over the unreleased wealth.

Thats what I would do if I was a scammer and in pirates position, the question remains though, is he a scammer?

[Andrew Vorobyov]

Nothing wrong with blaming the victims in this case. They are the fucktards that allowed themselves to be taken advantage of. (...) Thieves and con men won't win if people aren't morons, they'll just waste their time.

THIS! Million fucking times THIS!
The best way to improve Bitcoin is to eradicate stupidity among its users.

Natural selection... Darwin... etc..

[Le Happy Merchant]

If it can be killed someone will do it eventually, so might as well be now, we'll be better off. If not it will just prove that it's stronger than people think.

Do you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

Oh god I laughed so hard. Everybody lies, even in real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0&feature=player_detailpage#t=2s

[stick_theman]

Run, Pirate, Runnn!!!

[Matthew N. Wright]

Run, Pirate, Runnn!!!

Yes run! That way people in my betting thread will win big!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751

[DublinBrian]

It will cost him money because he will have to bear all the costs of manipulating the market himself and he will have to share the profits with anyone who chooses to follow along for the ride.

While he's pushing the price down to induce a panic sell, others are buying his Bitcoins for less than they are worth medium-term.  And then he has to compete with everyone else to buy any Bitcoins that are sold in panic as the market quickly rises.

While he's pushing the price up to sell above fair market value, others are selling him Bitcoins for more than they are worth medium-term. And then he has to compete with everyone else to sell Bitcoins at above fair market value to people who think the rise is real as the market quickly falls.

So long as there people who are anywhere close to equal to him in size in total, he will lose money every time he tries to manipulate the market. He can make Bitcoins unstable, but it will cost him to do it. People who have learned this lesson the hard way include Nelson Bunker Hunt and Allan A. Ryan.

+1

[epbaha]

btw, where's the confirmation that he controls 500k BTC?

[2012-08-17 16:15:10] <boonies4u> pirateat40: will you be daytrading with your own funds after this?
[2012-08-17 16:16:15] <pirateat40> boonies4u, Yes I hold personally over 30k BTC
[2012-08-17 16:16:45] <Azelphur> pirateat40: is that your personal or the total funds of BS&T?
[2012-08-17 16:17:57] <pirateat40> Azelphur, personally.  BST is over 500k BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101339.msg1111794#msg1111794

Pirate claims he has 500k BTC.  However, if pirate were a good scammer, he would claim that he actually owns more bitcoins than he actually holds.  Large investors are more willing to invest when they think they're are other large investors.

I speculate that Pirate owns a lot of coins but no where near 500k.

[finkleshnorts]

500k "paper" coins because of all the compounded interest. I'd bet he has far fewer coins on the blockchain than that.