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[ChicagoSchooler]

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[1714155470]

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[qwizzie]

BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes.

XRP's at 10 seconds.

The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds.

Is there anything faster?

Darkcoin can do it with InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds and provides you with trustless decentralised anonymity if you choose to.

[qwizzie]

The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds.

Is there anything faster?

Darkcoin can do it with InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds and provides you with anonymity if you choose to.

Just read up InstantX, and that looks like the time consumed by one confirmation.

How many InstantX confirmations are required for full confirmation?

With InstantX you will need 5 masternode confirmations (thats those 4 till 6 seconds) after which the amount
has been transferred and also added to the receiver's total balance. It will then only need 1 POW confirmation (normally some 2 and halve minutes)
to get its 6th confirmation visible in both sender and receiver wallets.

So InstantX is best used in those point-of-sale situations where you do not want to wait for POW confirmations but still need
assurance that this transaction will not only get on the blockchain but be confirmed as well.

Think for example of Bitpay that will pay invoices right away as soon as a transaction is visible on the network, the transaction
has not been confirmed yet but Bitpay is taking that responsebility on its shoulders and is approving the invoice already with 0 confirmations.

InstantX gives you that confirmation (because the MN network reaches concensus through those 5 MN confirmations) and
does that very fast without risks of double spending.






    

[qwizzie]

With InstantX you will need 5 masternode confirmations (thats those 4 till 6 seconds) after which the amount
has been transferred and also added to the receiver's total balance. It will then only need 1 POW confirmation (normally some 2 and halve minutes)
to get its 6th confirmation visible in both sender and receiver wallets.

So InstantX is best used in those point-of-sale situations where you do not want to wait for POW confirmations but still need
assurance that this transaction will not only get on the blockchain but be confirmed as well.

Think for example of Bitpay that will pay invoices right away as soon as a transaction is visible on the network, the transaction
has not been confirmed yet but Bitpay is taking that responsebility on its shoulders and is approving the invoice already with 0 confirmations.

150 seconds is a lifetime for point-of-sale.

Uncertainty from a 0 confirmation transaction is also out of the question unless if the retailer wants to raise prices to compensate for that risk.

look at it this way :

customer walk into a shop and buys a product through InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds
customer can now leave shop with product as InstantX not only confirmed this transaction 5 times through masternodes but also registered it on the blockchain.
shop waits for 1 POW confirmation before it can do anything further with that amount (not a big beal for most shops)

InstantX creates a fast way to not only get your transaction registered on the blockchain but also gives you assurance through 5 masternode confirmations
that it will be POW confirmed and not double spend. Plus you can choose to do this transaction anonymous or not.
  
 

[qwizzie]

look at it this way :

customer walk into a shop and buys a product through InstantX in 4 to 6 seconds
customer can now leave shop with product as InstantX not only confirmed this transaction 5 times through masternodes but also registered it on the blockchain.
shop waits for 1 POW confirmation before it can do anything further with that amount (not a big beal for most shops)

InstantX creates a fast way to not only get your transaction registered on the blockchain but also gives you assurance through 5 masternode confirmations
that it will be POW confirmed and not double spend.

If the transaction fails then the seller is out of money, so they will either have to raise prices or stop accepting that currency.

I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms.

Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash.

Once the masternodes reach 5 confirmations (4 till 6 seconds) the seller got the money added to his total, thats what matters here.
Buyer can now leave with his product and seller already got his money. Those 5 masternode confirmations are basicly as valuable as
5 POW confirmations because they reach network censensus over that transaction and lock the amount untill its POW confirmed further.






  

[solid12345]

I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms.

Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash.

I still have yet to hear a good argument for Bitcoin use in the brick and mortar world except perhaps for cottage commerce like two people at a flea market exchanging cash. To me its greatest strength is easily sending money online, micro transactions or being "digital gold" as a hedge against the USD, not as something to buy a cup of coffee with.

Also instantx is moot as no major retailer will ever accept a coin called Darkcoin.

[qwizzie]

I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms.

Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash.

I still have yet to hear a good argument for Bitcoin use in the brick and mortar world except perhaps for cottage commerce like two people at a flea market exchanging cash. To me its greatest strength is easily sending money online, micro transactions or being "digital gold" as a hedge against the USD, not as something to buy a cup of coffee with.

Also instantx is moot as no major retailer will ever accept a coin called Darkcoin.

InstantX is a service that runs on the masternode network, who is to say that this specific service wont be used under another name ?
or perhaps it will just be called ''payment possible through InstantX''.
A few years ago a lot of people were also saying Bitcoin will never be accepted by large any major retailer and see where we are now ?
Its impossible to predict the future and tell people what a name can or can not achieve.




 

[mitus-2]

BTC+greenaddress.it make confirmations instanct!

[qwizzie]

If the transaction fails then the seller is out of money, so they will either have to raise prices or stop accepting that currency.

I prefer to look at it this way: The Ideal Reserve achieves full global reconciliation almost always within 500ms and effective global reconciliation almost always within 250ms.

Convincing someone to use a currency faster than cash will be an easier argument than to use a currency orders of magnitude slower than cash.

Once the masternodes reach 5 confirmations (4 till 6 seconds) the seller got the money added to his total, thats what matters here.
Buyer can now leave with his product and seller already got his money. Those 5 masternode confirmations are basicly as valuable as
5 POW confirmations because they reach network censensus over that transaction and lock the amount untill its POW confirmed further.

What matters is time consumed and risk.

Either the seller doesn't wait and takes on the risk of a 0 confirmation transaction, or the buyer waits 3 minutes, wasting his time.

Either way, it's more costly than cash and cannot hope to compete there.

lets me try it one last time :

Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product
Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product

Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop.

If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount (which is already on its total balance !!) then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes).
The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk.

[TaunSew]

I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption.

Problem in crypto currencies have never been about the speed - people are already using BTC to buy stuff from merchants and they don't wait 50 minutes for a complete confirmation.

More immediate problems like

1.  No user adoption at all (no advertising, whatsoever, outside of internet forums)
2.  Blockchain size (even NXT now, some people are reporting, is taking hours to load.  Or BTC which is exponentially growing in size and already is too big / too long to load).

[qwizzie]

lets me try it once last time :

Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product
Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product

Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop.

If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes).
The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk.

It still requires 3 minutes.

Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale.

If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed.  Each error compounds the lost business.

Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product

for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! leaves shop with product

[TaunSew]

lets me try it once last time :

Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product
Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product

Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop.

If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes).
The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk.

It still requires 3 minutes.

Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale.

If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed.  Each error compounds the lost business.

Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product

for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!!

Maybe he's armchair intellectual or something.  I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved.  In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved

[qwizzie]

lets me try it once last time :

Seller : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations ---> give customer product
Buyer : 4 to 6 seconds --> 5 confirmations --> leave shop with product

Transaction over.. done.. finished. Happy customer and happy shop.

If Seller wants to spend Buyer's specific amount then Seller needs to wait for 6th confirmation (this will be POW confirmation and takes some minutes).
The transaction itself however has long been done between Seller and Buyer. There is no further risk.

It still requires 3 minutes.

Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale.

If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed.  Each error compounds the lost business.

Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product

for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!!

Maybe he's armchair intellectual or something.  I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved.  In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved

yeah, thats why people say InstantX could be a direct competitor to the creditcard corporations. Too early to tell but i sure hope so.

[TaunSew]

I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption.

Which ones?  I can't find anything that approaches 500ms full confirmation.

I'm relying on anecdotal accounts but Ripple is supposedly very fast.  Never took a stop watch to it but NODE seems to do full confirmations before I can even reload the page.  

There's bound to be a lot of examples out there but problem isn't speed but simply nobody really using any of this stuff.


  Bitcoin itself is only 250,000 over 6 years and that's craptastic (Whatsapp is newer and has 300+ million users.  Inb4 you say bitcoin is completely new, personal messaging / digital payments goes back to 1990s and it doesn't explain why payment processors like PayPal got 150 million users and they only support like 20-ish currencies around the world, so they're keeping people out at that).

[TaunSew]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=960938.0

What about these people?

[inBitweTrust]

BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes.

Bitcoin gives near certain confirmation within a couple seconds by a simply query to other nodes' mempool via BIP035.  Mycelium local trader does this with the “Transaction Confidence” bar and payment processors like bitpay do.

Interpayment channels will be coming soon for instant confirmations:
http://impulse.is/

[Daedelus]

even NXT now, some people are reporting, is taking hours to load.  Or BTC which is exponentially growing in size and already is too big / too long to load).

Links? Or is this more baseless FUD?

[Daedelus]

BTC gives you near certainty at 60 minutes.

XRP's at 10 seconds.

The Ideal Reserve can do it in 500 milliseconds.

Is there anything faster?

How can a transaction propagate across the globe and be confirmed in 0.5 sec?

[TaunSew]

Not sure if you're getting my point.  There's been thousands of alternatives to Bitcoin and practically all of them are dead - only 300 or so projects have any worth.  User adoption won't come from fast confirmations.  I even read other posts here, about your project, which said you guys have like 98.5% premine.  Does the world need another Ripple / Stellar?  No.

[qwizzie]

I can think of a few coins with almost instant confirmations and yet they aren't showing signs of any immediate adoption.

Which ones?  I can't find anything that approaches 500ms full confirmation.

It still requires 3 minutes.

Annoyed customer, lost business due to time consumed to complete a sale.

If the seller needs to refund any or all of the transaction, even more time is consumed.  Each error compounds the lost business.

Annoyed customer how ? he is already at home with his product

for customer : only 4 till 6 seconds to reach 5 masternode confirmations !!!! leaves shop with product

The seller has to wait for the funds to be released or take risk.

I've spent longer getting a credit card purchase improved.  In fact, most of the lineups you see in stores are because of credit cards taking a long time to be approved

Indeed, and The Ideal Reserve's 500ms is easily preferred to any other solution since it's the lowest time cost.

yeah, thats why people say InstantX could be a direct competitor to the creditcard corporations. Too early to tell but i sure hope so.

3 minutes will be a tough sell.

not really as it only takes 4 to 6 seconds .. good luck with your thread, you seem very narrow minded with this all so yr gonna need it.