Bitcoin Forum

I now bought a small portfolio while taking a look at the roi mostly. Second look was if the project looks trustworthy and i spreaded the risk a bit. So now i have:


Any critics about this portfolio? I bought always for the lowest Ask-Price to have the share instantly so i had to pay some fees. In total: 0.0763445 BTC in fees. I think thats ok.

On the other hand bitcoin was 7.2usd at end of july the 11th and at the end of august the 11th it was at 11.5813usd which means around 61% more value after one month. Even the best assets, that use BTCST, which maybe even is an hyip only has only half that performance. So im asking myself if the best investment wouldnt be to have it invested in bitcoins only. But when im thinking over it... that seems to be a wrong thought, because the BTCs are invested and not turned into another currency and the dividends are bitcoins too. So in total after a month you have more bitcoins because of the dividends and you have more usd-value for each bitcoin because of the currency exchanging value. Or is there another wrong thought in this?

You think i should risk less bitcoins in btcst?

Thanks!
Sebastian

It depends on what risk profile you want. Right now you have a pretty high risk but also a high reward kind of portfolio. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you aware of the risk.
//DeaDTerra

Do you see risks in the Mining-Assets i bought or only the btcst ones?

I think he is talking about the btcst thingies (the PPT`s).
Major RISK!


Greetz

Ok, ill think about what i will do. Most of the btcst-fonds will get dividend in the next 1 or 2 days. I will wait till that dates at least.

I've just got into securities as a nice stable place to earn interest, until I feel like selling a good chunk of my bitcoins.
I like mining based securities for that safe bet aspect, so I think you are doing okay having an even spread.

I love the idea of seeing other people portfolio, should a new thread be made or could this be used for that? Is there any risk I may be missing with sharing that info?

sounds like a great idea!

yeah its not like there is any "lucurative" investments right now, anything better than anything else, I'd be happy to post mine.

I know I'm very heavy into pirate based investments right now, but then I need the growth more than the safety. My medium to longer term strategy is to gradually shift my dividend reinvestments from pirate based to safer stuff like mining. I don't believe BTCST will last forever, but am hopeful that it winds down nicely when it needs to. In this manner I hope to gradually grow into more safety.

One thing I do like to do is when I buy some shares I figure out what price I'd sell for and set up the sell. For example, I might buy 10 shares of YARR for 1.6 and immediately place a sell order for 10 at 1.9 - that way if for some reason it jumps up I make a nice deal. When I first started BTC investing I did that for some PPT.x shares and made a better deal than holding them would have.

My thoughts:

• For the small amount in BTCST, I would just combine them into 1 security to avoid having to keep track of 4.
• You must also consider the change in price of the bonds. Mining bonds have not been a good investment lately because their prices have dropped so much.
• By belief is that BTCST is not just "risky", it is certain to fail and investors will lose everything. Others disagree.
  

Then what do you do with the BTC? Buy more YARR? Playing volatility games is tricky. I wouldn't build my whole investment strategy around it.

I could do this, but its not only that btcst could crash, it could happen too, that one assetowner will go home with the bitcoins he had. So playing his own little hyip. This way i have spread the risk about 4 assets of this type. But i will go out of them anyway. The earning earned more above miningassets related to the risk isnt good enough i think.
But the prices should only drop when the dividends are lower. Or the bonds were overprized. I hope i made a good buy now, when the prices dropped and hopefully they dont go down in future. :)
I think youre right here. It looks too much like a hyip. Only thing thats unusual in my opinion is the high price for a share of btcst. Normally hyips take very low amounts of money too to maximize the profits. But, like i said, i wont take the risk in the future.

Well, if YARR were to drop back down then why not pick up more? But there's always other options available. It depends on what the conditions at the time are.

But overall my strategy is roughly to risk the initial principle on BTCST derivatives and reinvest the dividends in safer choices. Once the non-BTCST investments reach parity with the original principle (which will be pretty soon for me) then even if BTCST disappears outright then I'm no worse off than before I started. But then I'm willing to take more risks than the average person.

needs more GIPPT and BDT

You have either BTCST or Mining bonds.
Maybe you'd like to look into assets that are neither of the two, like: SILVER, CIUCIU.BOND or BDT.

Also, from the mining bonds, I can recommend MOORE, which should keep up the value while the other mining bonds are falling.

And, as when it comes to BTCST pass-through investments, after couple of months of dealing with GLBSE, I finally realized that services like BitcoinMax and Hashking are far much better for this.
They provide a better interest rate and also a better liquidity, meaning: easier and cheaper to withdraw your money from BTCST when you want it.
You can also open a savings account at the pirate directly, removing the middle man risk at the cost of lower interest rate, but there you need to put in at least 100 BTC.

One thing to keep in mind when choosing assets if you are considering changes in exchange rate is whether the asset is more correlated with BTC value or fiat (USD) value. Pure BTC bonds, such as the BTCST passthroughs, as well as TEEK.A and .B etc are fully correlated with BTC value.

Mining assets tend to be more correlated with fiat value, because when the BTC exchange rate increases, difficulty tends to increase as well. Also, even if denominated in MH/s, mining bonds or shares represent a certain amount of mining hardware (and possibly prepaid costs, such as electricity and depreciation, which are denominated in fiat), the value of which correlates more closely to fiat values.

Some assets are a mixture. BIB.BVPS is probably more correlated to fiat values, because their costs and the sales, while paid in BTC, correlated with fiat values.

If you are aiming for a mixture of BTC and fiat exposure, it is good to know what type of investment an asset represents. If you wish to maintain a certain level of exposure to the bitcoin price, you can hedge investments in "fiat-correlated" assets by buying more bitcoin in an amount corresponding to your investment, or by taking a leveraged position (e.g. POLY.10.1).

Disclosure: The author operates assets on GLBSE and holds investments in some of the assets mentioned in this post.

I checked them out but they only bring 13%, 16% and 40% of the ROI that the best BTCST brings i bought. The last one is a good chunk better than the other 2 and brings back initial investment after 7,29months. Thats better than pyramining at least. But glbse has better miner than that. Not to speak of btcst ones.


Moore has break even after 26 months only.


I checked out the 2 sites you mentioned and it looks like they pay 6.91% per week. At glbse you have projects with up to 7,84%. So i think when risking it to invest in btcst i would prefer the glbse ones.

But in total i critisize the assets on a high level when speaking of projects that bring in 54% to 164,54% interest each year. ;) (I mean the first 3 and moore)

Yes, Mining is getting harder constantly. But hopefully the assetholder are updating constantly too, so the hashingpower is rising. But of course the effect is there. I think one has to constantly check out dividends and price per share to check out if the things move into wrong direction. BTCST is without fiat but on the other hand it maybe holds a greater risk.

But they are not exposed to BTCST default and resistant to the mining difficulty growth.


But after 26 weeks it gives you much better chance of selling them at the price you paid.


Well, if you have projects at GLBSE with up to 7,84% then I'm happy for you :P


My general advise: start with small amounts, see how the prices change, observe the liquidity, and after 3 months or so you will get to the same conclusions as I have.

BTCST is without doubt huge risk, but equally interesting is how this risk could affect the risk of other assets.
In addition to BTCST continuing for eternity, there are 2 possible outcomes:
1) Pirate defaults partially or completely.
Will this lead to a market crash as investors lose confidence in Bitcoin or the BTC securities market, or will it have little or no effect on other assets?

2) Pirate does an orderly shut-down and returns alle funds to investors.
Will this lead to a asset price boom as a huge amount of capital suddenly made idle starts to chase after the other avaible assets? Or will the previous BTCST investors be content with their earnings and withdraw their BTC from GLBSE?

Of course it's impossible to predict what will happen, and I'm aware that I laid things out quite black and white here.
My point is that even though one is not invested in Pirate's, this does not mean that one is insulated from risk associated with the BTCST, as what happens with BTCST could very well affect the rest of the securities market, at least short-term.

Right. But it depends on other values outside of bitcoin that doesnt grow too much. In fact... i think that investing bitcoins in silver should at the end lead to a lower value because bitcoin value grows faster than silver value. Or am i wrong here?


Ok, i dont know that. But while speaking about this... to get a real impression of the profatibility of an asset one should need to check the dividends over a timeframe and not only the actual ask-price but the ask-price at start of the timeframe together with ask-price at end of the timeframe. That would lead to a more real view. I think i will keep this in mind in future trades.


You dont believe me? When they pay more than btcst then this means i could buy the share under the real price. Which leads to a higher return of investment because the investment was lower. But if youre interested... i already shared my portfolio... :) You can proof if you wish.


Maybe. I saw that minerbonds are constantly losing value. So like i said above, i should calculate another way.

I think btcst is too small that it could create a bitcoin crash. And when it leads to mining bonds getting cheaper... good for me... ill buy more of them for cheap... :) Even when bitcoin is crashing again i could buy bitcoins cheap, buy shares cheap and i strongly believe that bitcoin is raising easily after that again.


I doubt the shutdown will go on this way, but maybe. And i think the other assets will be bought more which means higher share-prices.


Yes, i think one way or another it will have an effect. But i think on the other hand that one way or the other one could turn it to a plus. At least when owning mining shares already and have the possibility to buy more. If, then it would change the price for miningbonds and maybe the price of bitcoins but not the dividends. So when the dividends are constant and bitcoins raise in value nothing was lost. Or did i miss something?

It gives me 0.9%/week and I don't really care if the asset is called SILVER or WHATEVER.
Pirate also doesn't say how he actually makes the 7%/week.


Unfortunately the biggest disadvantage of the common mining bonds (with fixed Mh/bond) is that you usually pay significantly more while buying them, then you get when selling them back a month later. So keep that in mind, because they can really loose i.e. 20% of the market value in 2 weeks - and I saw it happening.


I'm just answering your questions - I don't need you to prove me anything.

There is no BS&T pass throgh that can give you more than 7% because BS&T does not give more than 7%.
If you did manage to buy underpriced PPT bonds - this should also give you a hint that one day you may have problems of selling them back at the price you are expecting now.

I think its a hint whats done and if it sounds like the owner knows what he does. But at the end, your right, it all depends on the risk and the real performance over all.


Hm. That could be bad. Ill have to think about this tomorrow if there is a protection against this.


Possible. But on the other hand... as long as the bond pays out it wouldnt be justified to have an underpriced bond.
But then... it could mean that customers lost trust in btcst in total. But i doubt this because there are less performing btcst-bonds that are overprized too.

I hope to get out of them anyway before something is crashing... :)

That was exactly what I meant while referring you to non GLBSE bonds based PPT services.

Investing in BS&T is only about:
1) depositing your money into pirate's wallet
2) earning weekly interest
3) being able to withdraw the exact deposited amount, at any time you like

And these GLBSE bonds - they don't give you the last part.
I mean, be PPT bond issuers usually provide you with some kind of buy-back procedure, but only the fact that you were able to buy underpriced bonds should give you an idea of how reliable/profitable/convenient these procedures actually are.

When the block reward halves mining shares will lose half their dividends and mining bonds will always lose value with bitcoin difficulty rising. The best mining related stock to me is MOORE.

Theres probably at most 6 months left of pirate investment before he closes down or significantly reduces returns.

Number of bitcoins Pirate is operating with is huge in comparison to market depth at the biggest BTC exchange. Bitcoin could easily drop to 5 USD or lower. Pirate does not even have to default for that to happen, just closing down his operation could trigger large panic sells  ;) I personally think that  for this last bitcoin price bubble is Pirate largely responsible. He's selling and buying large amounts of bitcoins each week and promising insanely high dividends. And when bitcoin price crashes don't expect mining bonds to get cheaper. Mining bonds are getting cheaper because difficulty is rising and difficulty is rising in part beacause of bitcoin price is rising and  more equipment is coming online.

There are overpriced Bonds too of course. Its volatile at glbse.

And you dont really think that, when pirate is taking the bitcoins and run you still can sell your bitcoins at the sites you mentioned dont you? The purpose of these websites are gone then. And why should the owner pay out money that he doesnt have either? Or did i miss you here?
If insured or not, thats the same at glbse, why should the owner pay out then when this would mean that he maybe has to pay out more than he earned? I really arent so sure that its safer to invest at these sites.

Yes, i see now that miners have a bit of a problem regarding price and dividend over time. I think i have to find another way to value bonds. More in a way like a look in the future taken from the past.

Of course I don't.
That wasn't my point.
I meant that if the pirate doesn't run, you can withdraw the exact initial deposit (plus interests) from bitcoinmax/hashking.
While selling the GLBSE pass-through bonds will most likely affect your final income from the investment.

You don't know much about investing. You have more pirate risk than anyone I know of (except CPA). You should put your money in my ETF, and let me do the hard work for you. Current dividends are around 2% per week, in about 1 month, that will be 3% then with some luck up to 3.5%. All in stocks that are very low risk, have proven business models, and have good growth prospects.

Going around insulting people is not a good way to get them to invest in your fund.

Does forum policy allow posts like this in other peoples threads?

He admits he needs help. You guys give him tips, I show him how he can hire an agent to do it for him. CPA does have a lot of pirate risk. I then showed him how he could avoid this same risk by hiring an agent.

If you are talking about my comments to Obsi earlier, I don't really think any of that was unwarranted.

Edit: I am editing this in as I feel the matter is over. I apologize to bitcoinbear.

I was reffering to the way your comment reads like an advertisement for your investment fund, which might be off topic?

I was only refering to this comment, your comments to Obsi earlier were just fine from my point of view.

Read down below invest there LMFAO I enjoy commenting on posts its free ad space

Ok, youre right. Its not said that the price will be met again. At least i bought last time at lowest bid-price. Maybe in future i will set my own price and safe the fee and get a lower price. At least i managed to sell 3 of the 8 shares for a higher price than i paid for + fee after the first dividend was paid. One share will be sold the next days and the last 4 shares are with bonds whose price is lower now. But its not a big gap. BTCST-Bonds seems not to go down constantly like the miningbonds do. So i think there is a good chance to sell them for the same or better price in some days. If not i will sell them some time anyway to cut the risk. But till now it looks like they dont automatically go down over time. Yes, it isnt always the exact price like with the websites you mentioned but this way you have the chance to trade. And it looks to me that trading could be another way of earning there.