Bitcoin Forum

Thank you for this friendly update.

Heh.  That little bug was squashed over a day before the OP.  Old news.

Pegs are tracking beautifully.  Nice try.

I do rather like the image of an unstoppable freight train though...

Bitshare scam? when I had a few coins in my wallet.
Thank you for your information!

"Pegs are tracking beautifully" my ass.  bitUSD is trading at 87 cents.  Are you willing to compensate the individuals who lose money?

No, there's a bug in coinmarketcap's feed which is misleading
but on the blockchain itself there is a nice
~ $12,000 buy wall at .99

But, I told you that already on the other thread.

Bug has been fixed and will be in the next release.  (This bug already caused the price to drop like 20%, its been priced in).

Also, coinmarketcap routinely has bugs in the prices of tons of coins.  The price of bitUSD is actually within 1% of $1.00. 

Gee... I wonder who put that there.  When you run out of funds to prop up the market then what will happen?

Lots of natural demand for stability in a down market.
This has turned out to be a great robustness demo for BitAssets in general.
Amazing.

 :)

Yep, -14% in one day and the other day -10%.  Amazing alright.  Maybe when this Bitshares(TM) scheme is up, you can steal from the legally retarded.

The OP in the link you posted says the problem was solved. Looks like you're confusing "DEAD" with "Alive & Kicking".

 :P

That is hardly the main concern. BTS have been going down and down and is now almost half the price of NXT when a few months back it was the same. Personally I am glad I managed to sell at a decent time.

BTS had potential, but greed killed it.

I remember bitcoin too going down and down... to less than $3 and some people like you claiming all the time how "smart" and "wisely" they acted by selling at $3 $4 $7 $10 $20 lying and fooling to themselves that bitcoin was dead...

you know what happened next!

I was referring to the price of BTS not your fraudulent "bitAssets".

Oh really?  So when you made the following post:

You weren't talking about the price of bitassets?

Might I note that bitUSD is once again within 1% of $1.00 again, now that things are fixed. 

Bitshares is in a downtrend, thats obvious.  Please show me a crypto thats never had a downtrend.  So many people seem to think that if a crypto goes down, then 'its a scam'.  Is bitcoin a scam because it went from $30 to $2, or from $1200 to $150? 

It seems that to some people if a developer gets any benefit at all out of creating a cryptocurrency, then "its a scam".  What did Bytemaster get out of creating Bitshares?  A salary for the past year that is less than what someone of his talent could get working at a software company?  How does that make it a scam?  If the devs wanted the money they would have taken stable gobs at google instead of inventing bitshares. 


It is true that it some other coins, devs work for free and get no compensation.  This is not a sustainable situation.  One should not have to starve to death or be independently wealthy in order to work on developing this new technology sector.

OP stop being butt hurt for no reason.. you can buy bitshares cheaper than anytime before and you wont regret it. It's absolutely going to be one of the few at the top of the market caps in a few years. I'm going to do as much as I can do help with that in terms of software development myself.. as many others are..

can someone explain why this was an issue to bitshares? people were able to sell bitUSD for cheaper?

There I was referring to the price of your fraudulent "bitAssets" which are really derivatives contracts, but which Bitshares(TM), the company, insists on tricking people into believing that they're actual "assets".


There I was referring to the "shares which are worth only pennies" released by Bitshares(TM), the company, which according to Stan Larimer, the head of operations at Bitshares(TM), the company, give shareholders the power to elect delegates which are just like directors on the board of a company.


Imo, it's a scam because they are intentionally trying to convince people their derivatives contracts are better than their real, physical counterparts and I quote, "Safer than a Swiss bank account".  The mass majority of individuals are not savvy enough to know that "bitAssets" are really derivatives and they will lose money from it.  Imo, Dan, Stan, and the whole Bitshares(TM), the company, team know this and are using people's lack of knowledge against them to make a quick buck at their expense.  Imo, this is highly unethical and against everything crypto is supposed to represent.  The good thing is that no matter what I or anybody else does Bitshares will blow itself up and that will stop it from hurting other people.

Some people have a hard time grasping the concept of the market pegs.  They will see a 3rd party exchange, such as bter, trading BitAssets that are no where near the true peg price and think something is broken.

You simply need to open the bitshares client and trade on the decentralized exchange to see the markets are working just fine.  Some people's "extensive" due diligence is browsing coinmarketcap.com  ::)

good post for weak hands that not use the great bitshares wallet producing panic selling

and good for each ones that wanna buy cheap BTS while we can.

congrats

Heh, I remember as a kid hearing my mother hum the jingle to this famous ad as she did the laundry:



Funny, I don't remember her ever telling my dad that

1.  "The tensile strength of this soap powder far exceeds that of dirt."
2.  "This detergent's oder is far more powerful than the smell of your work socks."
3.  "Did you know that Ajax can do the same thing as Atlas -- without shrugging?"

So, from nearly sixty years of training in front of the old boob tube, I've become an expert a recognizing the purpose of a good advertising slogan.

If you can get people to ask, "Oh really?  In what way exactly is Ajax stronger than dirt?", then you have solved half the marketing battle.

So, if we can get the ordinary, non-crypto-aware consumer to ask a similar question, "Oh really, In what way exactly is BitShares safer than a Swiss Bank?" than we will have done our marketing job.

So, I would appreciate it if you would continue to complain everywhere you can about my favorite marketing slogan.  I'd like to see everyone's mother humming that jingle on the way to collect her yield on her unconfiscatable, unrehypothicatable, un-bail-in-able, uninflatable and unbetrayable savings.

I've stopped relying on coinmarketcap to check the health of the peg... it is frequently way off from the actual price for some reason.

Haters gonna hate. I'm looking at you DecentralizeEconomics. Just because you don't want to hold any bitUSD doesn't mean others won't see the value in it buddy.

That's an interesting comment seeing that you removed everyone's name off your website.

I have to admit I've found the Bitshares marketing to be off putting. Specifically these things stick in my mind:

1. "Your own personal Fort Knox."
2. "Safer than a Swiss bank account."

and especially:

3. The video that sounds something like "what if I told you blah blah *bunch of claims* blah blah... well...Now you can!".

Apologies to Stan or whoever is/was responsible for these specific marketing efforts, but they really made me cringe. And I don't have any negative bias towards Bitshares at all. I'm interested in following the progress of the project.

No need for apologies, marketing sucks - to put it bluntly. Not to mention the millions of BTS's sunk into it, and it is no wonder it is struggling.

Sadly, while I am a holder, primarily as I think they are doing the right thing and liked BM's vision, I quite think this particular BTS is going to fail. There will be other teams who will take up the readymade code and do it better, and I am hoping they will sharedrop on us.

Now these are the kinds of constructive comments that are actually helpful.

Our new marketing advisors have started to emphasize more testing of ads and A/B comparisons to learn what people like and don't like about our promotional materials.

What one group thinks is awesome, another thinks is off-putting, so, ideally, you want to do things differently for each culture and demographic you are reaching out to.  This, of course, increases the costs exponentially.

Tailored and vetted marketing is something we want to do as much as we can afford to do.  Hopefully we will get better at it as we grow and have more resources to put into it.

To get to that level of marketing resources faster, we would have had to sell off a big chunk of the equity to VC investors rather than giving it away in sharedrops.  Whatever goes into marketing comes out of development which is where our emphasis necessarily had to be while we were breaking all that new ground.

You get to watch it develop out in the open where you have the option to get in on the ground floor - before it is perfect and polished.  Most startups never give investors that kind of insight.

The good news is, far-sighted people who can see past our ham-fisted marketing have an early adopter advantage over those who can't.

We think that's how it should be.

:)

Actually, to have much of a hope of getting elected, our hundreds of delegate candidates need to disclose their real identities and develop a public reputation.  There are rare exceptions and we respect honorable men and women whose sustained positive contributions make the community willing to overlook their desires to stay out of the lime light.

 :)

Well, I have to hand it to you: you're irrepressible. :)

I have heard enough over the past year to not take your statement at face value. If I started making a list of the overpromises and non-delivery, it would make for an utterly depressing read.

For our own sake I hope you're not bluffing this time.

The trouble with sharing your team's real time strategic thoughts, aspirations, hopes and dreams is that it ultimately results in posts like this.
That's why we don't do that so much any more. 

Got roundly criticized for that decision too!  <Heavy sigh>.

:)

It took me two conversations with Stan to realise this, so a year rly!  Glutton for punishment  :D nah, it's cool though. I have a video you can play in the background that makes Stans posts really entertaining. Just let me know.

unless they start getting new people , not just gullible idiots, but developers..they are doomed

I still have a few old coins, are they still valid

What am i missing here?

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/graphs/contributors

Looks like they have developers and quite a few third party dev's that are utilizing the bitshares system?

I dev for bitshares my delegate is dev.sidhujag.. I did ecommerce payment gateways and social login for bitshares my github is http://github.com/sidhujag

Check out the BitShares Loves Puppies (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940298.0) thread.

I post another example of a new developer or BitShares based business or new delegate proposal there several times a week

I just added two more earlier today.

Oh, and we just had Bytemaster's weekly "town hall meeting" which is another great "Proof of Life" for any doubters in the crowd.   :)



As you can see, we typically have quite a large turnout of people taking an hour out of their workdays or evenings or sleeping hours to attend.  A recording is also published for those who can't attend live.

What "old coins" do you have?

This thread is ridiculous. Bitshares is an interesting coin that has proven itself to not be a scam/shitcoin and has decent support and development behind it.

Bitshares is very much alive .... but in realty slowly dying :

https://i.imgur.com/uuqSj6w.jpg

And in all honestly with the current competition and innovations being released will likely slowly capitulate and lose interest much like litecoin has been doing.

Its just finding support and losing weak longs... same as litecoin... once litecoin reaches it will go up too so will bitshares

This is a huge regression relative to bitcoin which has also crashed so doesn't look good at all. Additionally, there are many more technologies and coins that are formidable vs bitshares (cryptonote based coins) and ones that have been sitting in the sidelines that are likely to instantly overtake bitshares like ethereum.

I am not trying to specifically attack bitshares with my comment and believe litecoin is similarly doomed (I used to mine litecoin and be very optimistic to its future), I'm just being realistic.

another scamcoin?

Hmm.. well bitshares is the only blockchain that can hire via  system consensus like mining (A more distributed approach over Devcoin which previously was the only chain that hired for work). So as more devs are hired there is exponentially more things to look forward to as an investor.. I think its an interesting model.. on top of that the delegates provide feeds to allow for a proper pegging system such that the use of bit Fiat currencies becomes viable over counterparts.. so I dont see any competition here with bitshares.. I actually see people getting further away from that model which IMO is the wrong way.

Very good point about the self funding nature of development built into DPoS being unique to bitshares. Certain PoS fund dev from premine, other have venture capital, others has set aside a portion of the total coins to support development but bitshares is its own thing for good or bad.(some would point to the dangers of having a dev strong arm a community into devaluing their investments as a unsatisfactory consequence of DPoS and which has already been witnessed in Bitshares. early investors were promised no inflation and that was an often touted selling point and overnight we saw ~2billion increase to ~2.5billion. I understand this consolidation benefited some but others where understandably upset by such a change, the democratic nature of Bitshares is what scares me and where the minority can have their rights abused. Bitcoin would want unanimous consent to conduct such a change and doing so would be a scandal)

Bitcoin has the advantage of funding its dev easily by the mere interest in its potential and the importance that existing businesses place within it and there dependence upon it much akin to how linux attracts both paid developers from companies and unpaid volunteers who are just interested in padding their resume , the challenge or experience. This is a good side effect found in any large open source project and one that is difficult to achieve elsewhere because of the network effect and first mover advantage.

Thats just because bitcoin has already got network effect, no other coin has that thus doesn't have intrinsic value in trying to attract new developers especially those with no stake and only motivation is to try to change the world.. well all coins are trying to do that :)

The consensus development model allows for a unique approach to attract talent... all it takes is investors to clue in and create the first wave so once the network take effect happens, if it happens, becomes an obvious model to follow for all other projects in the future... ofcourse the one that takes network effect always takes the cake.. unless the competitor truly offers something innovative that joe smith would care about to use.

I guess, in the end, it all comes down to each investor's ability to correctly assess the facts.  

That's as it should be.

They are all laid out there for you in plain sight.

Place your bets.  I've placed mine!  :)

Right just as kids (smart geeks) were the first ones to "see" the facts within bitcoin that made it an interesting buy... and later ended up translating to older folks and business men and later wall street. It's as it should be :) usually other way around.

Agreed, Bitcoin is so far ahead any other alt but still can fail if it doesn't adapt and evolve. The network effect is really powerful when dealing with currencies and protocols and even if another currency is superior technologically to bitcoin it still is unlikely to have a chance at competing. I really like how many of the devs are anarchists within bitshares and like some of their projects.... the fact is bitshares is dying right now (likely due to the inflation and a botched marketing campaign. ) I would have to think long and hard about what it would take for them to reverse the direction this coin is headed in as there are already many bright and talented individuals invested in their ecosystem that aren't doing much in a way of stopping the capitulation.

I dont think bitusd and other bitassets are being used much yet and the DEX is funally being used now that BTER hack happened... so i think the intrinsic utility finally has been realized and being used... but it has had people with too many coins which didnt care enough to get invovled to market it... and they shouldnt have to.. and we all know that investors of crypto are very short-sighted and lose patience quickly... so I welcome the low price to accumulate some more, the fact is there really is no competition, and alot of projects that are just about to be unveiled... should bump it up a bit atleast.

BitShares is modeled after a company while Bitcoin is modeled after currency.
They are two completely different applications built off the concept of a decentralized transparent public ledger.

Company shareholders elect a board of directors to run the company - a well established model.
Minority shareholders have their rights protected by the company by-laws, and can vote with their feet by selling their shares - when there is a policy change they don't like.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be flexible and competitive like a company.   It needs to be stable and reliable like a currency.  It can stand tall like a powerful mastodon in the tar pits where we puny little mammals would immediately sink if we couldn't quickly adapt to a changing environment.

To compare the two, is to compare apples and orangoutangs.

Wise investors know what they are investing in, and why!  :)

This is a very dangerous belief to have. Competition is great and does indeed exist even for bitcoin. Dash just overtook Bitshares in market cap and NXT is still fiercely competetive. I can almost guarantee that ethereum will almost instantly overtake bitshares and other gambles like maidsafecoin and counterparty could easily overtake bitshares in a year. This isn't even accounting for the blackswan coins that one doesn't expect either. There is plenty of competition and bitshares is struggling to remain relevant.

Even bitcoin is struggling to survive and be relevant. To not have this mindset shows you don't understand the challenges we all face as a community and the real threats at our doorstep.  

What I meant was competition to the model of bit fiat pegs and pay for work through delegates... i know other coins offer cool tech that bitshares doesn't have and some have enough going to sustain high market caps.. while others are on a pump but i see that there are good projects out there... i meant competition in a very narrow focused field.. not generally.

The competition is no longer about mindshare of the crypto-tribe enthusiasts.  
That's just where you go to attract early adopters and startup capital.
Market cap is a lagging indicator.

The important competition is for a piece of the real world - like a piece of trillion dollar global financial sector or music industry or gaming industry or...

We haven't even started marketing BitShares to its target customers yet.  That must wait till we've applied some spit and polish to the end user interface.

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky.   :)

You are essentially describing
 nubits relationship to Nushares
Bitcoins relationship to tether

There will be many more pegs in the future so that is nothing unique. Your idea of not suggesting their exists competition is by narrowing the field so you are referring to a specific algo only.  Investors and users don't think that way . They invest and use a currency that fulfills a purpose for them.

As of today id say investing and using a currency outside of bitcoin are two different things and yes id say nubits and tether are no competition to bit fiat pegs in the long run but thats my assumption and time will tell..

nubits and tether and any other fiat peg implementations other than bitshares all have a central point of failure unless they deal with prediction markets which we know have other issues and probably won't work for a pegged asset

You don't think that others are not marketing to those same demographics as well? Bitcoin has had over 669 million in venture capital flowing into businesses with attempts to push bitcoin into the mainstream.

To be fair, Bitshares may simultaneously lose mindshare and grow in value at the same time as the cryptocurrency marketplace is still very immature. This isn't happening now but bitshares could make some changes in the way it markets itself and is managed and reverse this negative trend. Thus far I still don't see it with the repeated analogies of investing in a business .

Exactly.

Let the Darwinian competition continue.

This is a marathon where the runners grow more conditioned as the race progresses.

The quality and features of MS-DOS at one point in time is not the relevant factor.

You need to consider the first and second derivatives.

I just discovered this thread.

Bitshares is not 'dead'. It is in fact one of the most perfect creations of crypto.

If anyone can come up with a better financial model for a crypto peg then post it before posting crap like "bitshares is dead".

Another modest "Proof of Life"...

Darwin theory is wrong. This world has been existing for 7.5 kiloyears only. Bones of dinosaurs and other stuff was placed there by Satana to test us.

Sorry, I didn't resist the temptation to troll in a thread created by a troll.

Oh no the nightmares!

English (I used Russian) variant of this name needs one "a" less, read it as "Satan".

PS: Satana, Satan, Stan... hm...

I though you meant Santa.

If you follow the github commits, you will see that the project is vibrant and having rapid development. In fact, it has accelerated which makes the sentiment surprising.

The price is poor but more often it behaves irrationally.

There are many factors that affect price in the young and often illiquid crypto markets.  These include deliberate disinformation, rumors, speculation, outright manipulation and inexperienced investors making superficial decisions to buy and sell at all the wrong times based on what they see the herd doing.

This is all fine, but if you are investing, not gambling, then you will be most successful if you do your homework and thoroughly understand the leadership, developers, technology, businesses, and supporting community behind each investment.

Predicting where a rocket will be at sometime in the future does not have much to do with its current position.  The more derivatives you look at (velocity, acceleration, etc.) and the better understanding of outside forces (like thrust and drag and gravity and bugs on the windshield) you have, the better your prediction will be.

Market cap = position which is a imperfect lagging indicator reflecting what real and imaginary forces have acted on an asset in the past.  There is no substitute for doing your homework to understanding the forces that are currently acting on the asset you are considering.

Most amateur FUD is just bugs on the windshield.

Cryptosmith.info
Bitsharesdemo.com

In this thread: the OP looks silly for thinking that a temporary bug which was fixed before the thread was even posted meant that a coin wit ha vibrant community is 'dead'.

Ya man, this is a truly sophisticated scam with professional grade deception and misdirection.

When an intelligent man crosses the street via the North Pole... all the alarms should go off..
Instead of building a trivial futures market to hedge Bitcoin... the Larimers build Frankenstein....
Because it's Frankenstien that transfers millions of $$$ from idiots to the Larimers and their insider buddies.

And you wonder why I know Feds run this place.

The imminent flood of crypto ETFs complete with options markets will render hedging with Frankenstein moot....
And, personally, I don't see much difference between the soon-to-be-indicted Josh Garza and the Larimers.

Too man drugs for you man

Exactly.  I couldn't have said it better myself.