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This was the world facing those in Central and Eastern Europe in the 1930s.  What a choice…as if anyone living there had much of a choice.

Hitler significantly consolidated power in 1933.  The Reichstag fire, election victories (thanks to the support of the German communists, on orders from Stalin), the first concentration camps, an enabling act allowing Hitler to rule by decree.  All big news throughout the western world, compared to the minor news item of the millions killed by the intentional famines and deportations occurring in the Soviet Union at the same time.

Internationally, Stalin was given a pass: “…with the help of many sympathizers abroad….”  Hitler was confronted with “voices of criticism and outrage.”  This at a time when the deaths attributable to Stalin’s policies were infinitely greater than those attributable to Hitler’s.
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More...[/email]]https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/bionic-mosquito/hitler-vs-stalin/[email][/email] (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/bionic-mosquito/hitler-vs-stalin/[email)

Hitler triggered the WW2, which caused some 80 million deaths in total. He also tried to exterminate various ethnic groups, such as the Sinte (West European) Romanies and Ashkenazi Jews, with great success. On the other-hand, Stalin was responsible for some 10-20 million deaths. Stalin cannot be compared to Hitler. Stalin was evil, but Hitler was beyond that.

Hitler and fascism in general were supported in the beginning by the west too, especially business. Up to 1938 or 39 you still had American diplomats saying Hitler wasn't all bad, just misunderstood.

almost as many lies told about stalin as hitler, on the one hand evil racist gas chamber hoax on the other gulag and man made famine, folks believe the lies depending on what sort of politics they like, white nationalist anticommunist buys the jewish lies about ussr and churchill worshipper westerner buys the jewish lies about germany

Well, the victor seems to write history, and as such, Hitler will forever embody evil to western observers. Stalin fought with "the good guys" and as such his brutality was excused at the time.
To put the question at the other end of the scale, suppose you looked at two serial killers, one of whom killed entire families and the other killed random strangers. They're certainly different. But is it meaningful to say that the former is 'worse' than the latter?
And does it really matter?  
Each of them caused the deaths of millions either directly or indirectly.  
They were both monsters.

EDIT: and Mao probably beats them both combined.

The Chinese cultural revolution by "Chairman" Mao resulted in more than 30 million deaths.... but that is still less than half of the roughly 80 million deaths, resulted from the WW2. And moreover, Mao never targeted any particular ethnic group for extermination.

Stalin participated in WW2 start also, he just had been standing behind the scene. If you agree, that WW2 started when 3rd Reich invaded Poland, what about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol

He was a silent beneficient of all that mess.

Soviet's main goal was to create classless world, so they have to conquer all countries first. For the first time they tried in 1920, but had to make a retreat on the foregrounds of Warsaw.

Actually Stalin was planning a showdown with the jews before he died. The "Night of the Murdered Poets", the "Doctors plot" and the increasingly vocal anti-zionist propaganda (plus the rumours about setting up a Deportation Commission, and building new camps on the far-east) all pointing towards new large scale purges against the jewish population.

Stalin was never interested in a war with the Nazis. He knew that the German forces were technologically much superior to his own troops. Had Hitler refrained from attacking the USSR, the Soviets never would have participated in the WW2, and the Nazis would have conquered the entire Western Europe.

It's less likely to die as a resident of a country occupied by the nazis then in one occupied by communists
I think

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2091670/Hitler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html

Hitler's 3rd :D

So Hitler> Stalin

Stalin now enjoy a bad reputation. But he is never as bad as Adolf Hitler according to the west.
Stalin was a much greater mass murderer than Adolf Hitler.

Oh gawd, not another Google vs Apple thread!   ::)

Yes, Germany was very strong at the time. They took the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia without a battle and also Poland, Stalin didn't like it. He needed to buy time to mobilise troops. Hitler knew Stalin was not his ally and his mistake was thinking Germany could defeat Russia before the Russian winter.

No. That non-aggression pact was a brilliant tactical feat that postponed an imminent attack of Germany on the Soviet Union at a time when USSR was fighting with Germany's ally - Japan - in Mongolia. At that time USSR could ill afford fighting on two fronts, and would have surely lost. If not for that pact, Europe and Russia would be speaking German now, and China and the rest of Asia - Japanese. Always look at a a bigger picture.

One of the worst things Stalin did before the war, was basically decapitating the Soviet Army - most of the command and middle layer was killed off during the purges and repressions of the 30s.

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I agree with you there. Both Stalin and Hitler did some terrible things, but they are in different categories and are not comparable.

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Yes there are a lot of lies and half-truths. With regards to Stalin, I can say based on the tragic experience of my own family, that neither Gulag, nor the famine are hoaxes. And virtually every family in the former USSR has been touched by that.

Regarding famine. The hoax that was propagated over the last 20 years is that it was created specifically to target Ukraine. Famine covered large part of Russia and Ukraine, and the death toll was largest in Central Russia. My great-great-grandmother died of hunger in those years - and that branch of my family is from Southern Siberia. Famine was triggered by mismanagement of resources, by the need to industrialise and by USSR's dependence on imports - at that time Western countries refused to sell industrial items for Russian gold, but accepted grain.

Gulag. My great-grandmother, grandmother, her sister and her brother suffered through that system of forced-labour camps, put there on false accusations, and rehabilitated only after Stalin's death. Only my grandmother survived.

stalin saved russia from zionists. period.

A few years ago, I did some simple calculations. The USSR lost some 80 million people, as a result of WW2, Gulags, famines and reduced birth rates from these catastrophes. Taking in to account the natural growth from 1930s to 1990, that 80 million would have grown to 200 million. In 1989, the White (Slav + Germanic.etc) population in USSR was around 220 million. Imagine what would have happened, had that been some 420 million!

At that time (1990), the parasites (Azeris, Uzbecs.etc) numbered around 50 million and the Union collapsed under their pressure. Had there been some 420 million whites, then the USSR would have been able to cope with the parasites, at least for another century.

the aristocratic and anti regime elements in the military needed to be got rid of. i read somewhere that hitler admired stalin for the purge and wished he had done something similar after the assassination attempt.

this is what i meant, the man made to kill ukranians on purpose part. grain had to be sold to pay for industrialisation and stalin said if he didnt make good the gap between the ussr and the developed world in 10 years the country would fall either to the capitalists or the germans

at least you can question the famine without being accused of wishing death on every last ukranian unlike the holocaust crap where its not good enough to say lots of jews were deported to camps and died when the food ran out

This is a very interesting question. Stalin's alleged speech of 19 August 1939, the silent military build-up on the western borders of the USSR from late 1940, and purging and relocating ethnic Germans may points to less peaceful intentions.

The Bolsheviks and other Marxist elements needed to be gotten rid of.  Unfortunately the wrong side won, thanks to the treason, cowardice, and greed of the Narodniks and their fellow travelers.

The lobotomy of Russian civilization performed by Lenin and Stalin exacerbated the conflicts of WW2, and set humanity back by at least 50 years.

And to this day you jingoists still blame the Ukrainians and other victims of forced collectivization for their own famine.

First you complain "ZOMG the kulaks are growing too much food, let's take all their stuff."

Then when there is no food, you still complain "ZOMG the kulaks have sabotaged our glorious revolution, quick exile and/or kill more 'aristocratic and anti regime elements!'

Only the Japanese can come close to competing with the Russian's heroic ability to deflect blame for their own actions onto others, and deny responsibility for the consequences of those actions.   ::)

If apologetics and revisionism were Olympic events, Russia would be assured of winning two gold metals every four years!

Stop! the japanese are playing in a whole different league regarding ww2.

Japans view is developing in the direction of completely denying their war of aggression, war crimes and crimes against humanity in all over south east asia.

They also begun to redact their decisions about soldiers proofen to be guilty of crimes against humanity

Wont take long until the chinese will take a aggressive stance against it.

@OP

if 1 or 1 million would make a difference then we would not be better then stalin, hitler or all the assholes out their.

Fucking for virginity and bombing for peace doesnt work.

The Japs committed the most horrendous war crimes in WW2. But they were largely ignored, as the victims were East Asians and South-East Asians, unlike the powerful Europeans. Even now, the Nazi crimes against Jews are well acknowledged. But what about those against the Roma, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Serbs?

As a society we are going to be more critical of a religious group that has a strong hold in the US being persecuted than just a general country.

Hitler has plenty of competition to match his evilness. Ever hear of Pol Pot and Ghengis Khan?

a quite different angle for viewing the Nazi phenomenon.
Legend Of Atlantis (Part 2) the Emissaries of Jahbulon: https://youtu.be/lu0KsA_5gEo

Both of them are bastard.
They all killed millions of people. that's nothing different.
From some point, Hitler may better than Stalin .
Stalin kill more people than Hitler.
And yes, they bring disaster to the world.
but Stalin kill his own people, this they reason people accuse Hitler more than Stalin.

Leave Ghengis Khan.... let's focus more on the recent history. Pol Pot will be an infant in front of Hitler. It is true that he wiped out some 10% of the Cambodian population. But in absolute numbers, Hitler caused almost 80 times more deaths when compared to Pol Pot.

I think that both of them was evil people, monsters.
It's meaningless try to compare them based on the facts who killed more people, or if they killed more people in their own country or in other countries.
They represent the worst kind of government, self-centered, without any compassion for people with different ideology, race, religion etc.
Unfortunately, for many people today they are still positive and good examples, and they still have many followers so this really make me worry.

There are not many followers of Hitler right now. Some fringe elements might be supporting his views, other than that, Hitler is largely detested by the vast majority of the world population.

The case with Stalin is different. Many people in the former USSR still hold positive views about him, as he is remembered as the one who saved the Soviet civilians from Nazi genocide.

They are both evil extremists... the worst that humanity has to offer. So a contest at being evil and winning at it it's not something worth celebrating.

they are both equally bad
Its just that Hitler is considered to be worse for weatern Europe, while Stalin for Eatern. Even despite the fact that Russia now is trying to show more positive aspects about Stalin, they would never be able to ignore those awful things he did for the people living in the premises of former USSR

They are both just faces, people with ideas that were adapted and repeated by others. People who followed them and killed in their name are equally responsible.
There were many like them, maybe not as brutal, but do you really have to kill 500 thousand people to be put in one line with Hitler and Stalin? Maybe 100 thousand is enough? Where's the line?

Chairman Mao is still idolised in China despite that fact that he killed more Chinese (mostly through his stupidity) than any foreign invaders ever did.

History is basically always a "story" and that story varies according to every single country that teaches the story to their children.

You won't ever find the "truth" behind any of these stories as that "truth" is different according to every other country that has any involvement.

Basically you simply have to decide which "fake version of the truth" you are going to believe in (because the "real truth" will never appear).

Come on, you cannot seriously compare them. I mean they're both criminals, but Hitler went far far beyond all that crime acts that Stalin made.

What do you expect from a country where even the Google is censored? But one thing I have noticed is that ethnic Chinese, who have migrated to Western nations are mostly opposed to Communism and Mao.

Chinese in modern China have a curious relation to Mao. They've managed to turn him into a trademark.  ;D

can we make a poll hitler vs stalin?  8)

Indeed (although unlike many years ago most Chinese do not have a poster of Chairman Mao in their home).

Also China hasn't been "communist' since Deng took over after Chairman Mao died (although many "brainwashed" westerners seem to think that it is).

Hardly anyone in Bitcointalk cares about Hitler. On the other hand, there is a large portion who either detest or approve the actions of Stalin. There are a lot of (Western) Ukrainian and Baltic users who fall in to the former category, and the latter group is made up of Russians, Belorussians.etc.

Count me out, as well as a millions of former Soviet citizens, who families were touched by repressions.

Btw, Stalin aside, there is a discomforting parallel between Hitler professing Germans as the superior race and Obama professing America as an exceptional nation...

 I was sort of generalizing. There were a few opinion polls conducted in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine (before the civil war), Kazakhstan.etc, which showed good support for Stalin.

Yes, I know. The problem is that people are confusing Stalin-the-icon (a symbol of relative prosperity/stability, low corruption and criminality, and of respect on international arena) and Stalin-the-person (a ruthless authoritarian, who infamously proclaimed that deaths of a million people is just a static). In those polls it is the former concept that is winning, especially when present Russia's international status and social turmoil are set as a contrast.

Where is Poutine ?

Where is Porky? Hiding in the toilet to escape from the hired goons of Ihor Kolomoyskyi?

With inflation nearing triple digits (within an year!) and Hryvnia losing as much as 70% of its value, the only option left for Western Ukrainians like you is to mass-migrate to some other country in search of livelihood. The EU will not welcome them. The only option left is Russia.  ;D


Hmm... Those people who suffered terribly during the reign of the drunkard Yelstin might consider Stalin to be a hero. To tell the truth, Stalin murdered far fewer people when compared to Yeltsin.

Oh, you should indulge souldream in his Putin-fixation.  ;D
By the way, maybe he can call the direct line to Putin, that's been opened today, in preparation for the live televised Q&A with Putin on the 16th of April. That's a unique practise, not to be found in any other country, where citizens can ask questions to the country's President directly, send photos of problem areas, etc.

And there's an app for Android devices too :)
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150408/1020636795.html

That's a nice idea. But it raises questions about how they choose questions and such. Is there a video online of the event?

What about Hitler vs Vader?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpqNvskS_kM

You can read more about it here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028354.0

Hitler was in power for 12 years and Stalin for 21 - trying to calculate how many people WOULD have been killed under Hitler had he been in power for another 10 years would be merely speculative and impossible to assess, given the unpredictable nature of warfare.
So it probably is not useful to judge who is 'worse' in terms how how many were murdered under their respective regimes - if Hitler had had another 10 years he might have killed twice as many people, or more. The fact that he was not given the opportunity does not make him any less evil.

Hitler murdered people because of their race, physical disabilities (mental and physical) and their political behaviour. Relatively speaking, Stalin murdered people indiscriminately, based on his paranoia. I don't think there is an objective answer as to which is 'worse' in this case. It could be argued that Hitler was worse because he followed a rigorously crude, barbaric and highly perverse ideology that led to the deaths of millions of people; it could be argued that Stalin was worse because he did not impose such a rigid ideology, but merely wanted to dispose of ANY 'anti-Soviet' elements.

Any murder is evil - to speak of it in terms of statistics, I believe, trivialises the huge suffering borne by each individual.

Wrong choice. I would vote for democracy. Or anarchy. Or whatever. But not communizm or nacizm. They both are shit. Totalitarizm are totally uncool. =)

Imagine what would have happened if the Nazis had been victorious in the WW2. Entire ethnic groups would have been wiped out. Ethnic groups such as Serbs, Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Czechs, Greeks.etc would have become extinct by now. Not only the Nazis, their allies (esp. the Japs) were also involved in ethnic cleansing. The Japs would have exterminated the native populations of China, South-east Asia, Pacific, and South Asia had they won the war.

I would be probably writing this in German  ;)

An excellent "what-if" by Robert Harris (Fatherland). It's a sort of conspiracy, noirish, crime story, set in a world where Nazi Germany pretty much won the war. There is a great deal (and a cool map!) about what a victorious Nazi Germany would look like and their place in the world.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you think that exterminating certain ethnic groups (Slavs, Jews, Roma, Greeks.etc) is preferable when compared to a few decades of communism, then I'll disagree. Under the Soviet rule, countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Moldova got transformed from underdeveloped isolated regions to industrial heartlands. Under the Nazi rule, the local population in these nations might have got exterminated, with ethnic Germans replacing them.

Are you saying western countries assisted in the famine? It wouldn't surprize me but I didn't know that.

Dear Adolph. Yes, attacking the USSR was your biggest blunder. Perhaps you got a bit overzealous, probably as a result of the easy victories which you had in France, Belgium.etc. Had you controlled yourself, then the entire Western Europe would have been speaking German now. Queen Elizabeth would have named her first child Adolph instead of Charles. London would have been renamed as Sachsenburg. What more... the British would have been eating Blutwurst and Sauerbraten instead of Apple pie and Fish & Chips. Sausages (especially the dick-shaped ones) would have been named as the national dish of England.

But still... you went on to attack that damned Stalin. Du bist ein Dummkopf. Mehr Glück nächstes Mal!  >:(

This discussion about who was worst can go for ages but there is one significant difference between those two. Hitler wanted to make Aryan race dominant so he was doing everything to achieve that (witch include killing German Jews and German communists). Stalin on the other was almost everyone even his own people (even those who were not a threat)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)

Only around one-third of those died in the great famine were Ukrainian. The remainder were from Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Also, the mastermind behind the famine was Jewish. His name was Henrikh Yagoda. Check this article:

http://davidduke.com/do-you-recognize-this-man-he-was-one-of-the-greatest-mass-m urderers-of-all-time/