Bitcoin Forum

Bare with me as I bring you this crazy idea.

With all the bureaucracy in most countries, and being under the thumb of the banks and the government, I was thinking along these lines:

What if you bought land in a very remote area, perhaps a dessert, a place were nobody comes around usually. You could still get internet access, perhaps by sattelite if there was no cell phone coverage. I would think an entry level package would not set you back too much. Then you'd need a truck, gasoline and some money to get all your gear.

You could set up a small settlement and with the usage of modern technology you could use solar panels (perhaps even a windmill or two if windy) to create electricity. With that electricity you could extract water from the air, even Sahara dessert air contains 25% water. There's ready made solutions to buy that would accommodate this for you. With solar power you could also cool down your cabin to a tolerable temperature. Building smart placing the settlement somewhere were the likelihood of it all being washed away by a surprise storm with heavy rain was very low, and also having a couple of large water tanks for gathering rain water (could be collected off the roofs).

With the water, and some soil you bring with you, you could even make a greenhouse, and perhaps cool it instead of warming it, you could grow edible plants. You could also have some animals, like rabbits, chicken etc. With your internet connection, you could do some small amounts of work, perhaps translation, blogging, coding or something else that could be done online.

Ocassionally you could truck out for supplies to the nearest town of stuff you'd need. If you were really ingenious, you might even make yourself a solar powered drone that could fly to the nearest city to pick up stuff you wanted to buy. Using bitcoin, you'd cut yourself off completely from the current financial system.

- No bank accounts.
- No connection to the power grid.
- No connection to municipality water or seawage system.
- Internet connection, most likely through sattelite (could be paid directly in bitcoin if possible, or through a proxy)
- No property tax (I'm sure there's places in the world where you would not need to pay taxed for a few acres of dry land in a remote spot)
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo.
- You could build a self sustainable eco-system in a small dome. Not an easy project, but doable for the adventurous person. This could include a fish tank, for raising your own fish!
- Any escrements and urine from humans and animals could be reused as fertilizer for the plants.

Basically what you need for survival is a place to live with tolerable temperatures, water and food. If you were able to do all year crops, you would always have a constant supply of vegetables and fruits. With chickens, you would always have eggs, and with rabbits and other small animals, you could treat yourself with some fresh meat now and then.

Perhaps a group would be better than just one man or a couple. As there would be many things to do, but as the group grows, so would the amount of things to do and the mouths to feed grow. Also with a larger group, the chance of disagreements and fallouts are bigger.

Some advantages to such a scheme:

* Silence (not even a remote airplane to be heard most days)
* Nobody nagging you.
* Freedom, no property tax collection, no bills (except the internet bill).

Now, there might be occasions where you needed supplies and services from society. For example dental or medical care. Also you might need/want to buy supplies and certain foods that you cannot produce yourself. Perhaps for self reliance living somewhere else might be a better idea, perhaps somewhere where you could do fishing and hunting.

If there's enough sun and/or wind, electricity should not be an issue, as it would be provided by solar panels. As for any important machinery you should have spare parts, and you should have backup systems

I was also thinking about the possibility of running a online service in such a place, what about an anonymous e-mail system. I guess the sat connection could be cancelled should anyone want to shut you down, but how would they find your location, if it could not easily be found in any official registry (imagine land was purchased through an unrelated company).


Sure, a lot of work to make something like this work.

I remember I saw a youtube video of a man living like this, can't find it again though.

Do anyone of you know of anyone that did something like this?

Perhaps it is just a romantic idea to do something like this, but being self sufficient must be really great, and not having noisy people around and no mailbox and no bills, it would be super great.

Some of it just does not make sense.   You talk about growing food and yet living in a dessert.  A dessert would be great chances are for solar energy, but as far as growing crops it's not going to happen I don't think.

If you don't have money how are you going to buy bitcoins to buy the supplies trucked in? 

Don't get me wrong I would love a "star trek" universe where you do what makes you happy and everyone get's along.  I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?

I've put my life on hold before (quit my job, got a one way ticket to to backpack in Asia for months with nothing planned or booked).

I can relate to OP.... there really isnt that much to gain from modern society living i find - i guess it depends on your outlook.  The older ive got ive come to the conclusion modern society is kinda 99% meaningless.  Unless you have some actual power in society you are just a meaningless drone.  Doing things like supporting the bitcoin network is about as good as it gets to havng any real large scale autonomy.   Living in big super tribes of millions takes its toll.  In order for success people will drive themselves to sociopathic levels to compete. These sociopaths then end up with the power and normalise sociopathic tendencies via media/gov etc... end result is we end up with a bunch of crazy people in society from following the message from the people with power.

I'd much rather live in a small tribe like OP suggests, it feels right, it feels natural.  What concerns me is practicality, if you created great wealth in this desert tribe you could be targeted.   Another thing is, if you were succesful and created a way out for other people to copy you could be targeted.  People trying to escape the system seem to get targeted by the system.

It does not sound like a peaceful tribe.  More of a military tribe with needing:
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo

I personally think modern society adds a lot.  Things like a security system, police to help, firemen, roads.... etc, etc.  I would like no taxes but i realize some of them are necessary.

I would argue without modern society there would be no computers, and no bitcoins.  You would have a trade and have to go to barter system like once it was in most places.

How could it possible? You do everything by yourself, no one are available to be hired by you. You should know how to install the solar system, how to extract water from the air, and how to make a greenhouse! Then you are a genius.

Sure a greenhouse will work for some items.  You could small batches of most things.  But think of things such as wheat and other BIG crops.  It takes a lot of land. 

Are you going to build a massive greenhouse for each of these crops?  Most big box stores get out of season things from other countries where they are in season as green house is not a viable solution on big crops.

Yeah maybe you make some good points its hard to say for sure.  Would it be possible to design a small tribe without people with guns and guard dogs running around idk.  The guns seem less of a problem if kept away from children.

Next question is could we still collaborate and develop things like computers/bitcoins as a series of small tribes? To me the goal would be to not completely ignore the rest of human race but just not be part of a mulitmillion person tribe.  Generally i like helping random strangers its cool :).

I've got that. A house in some kind of a desert.

No electricity, no water, no mobile phone connection and no Internet. I'm going there from time to time, staying till the supplies I've brought last. I've never been there more than 3 days. It would take a huge budget to give the place the comfort of a modern home. Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

You have to look at US' history. There were big settlements where the land was fertile, and water plentiful, but very few in the desert.

I still will refer to "star trek" like society.  I love the idea, of everyone contributing in their own way.    I honestly hope one day we can get to this, but I don't think it will be in my lifetime.

I agree guns are not a huge thing.  As target shooter I like them, and a safe can do a good job of keeping them safe. 

If in this society your carrying a gun and letting your attack dog walk with you it's not the peaceful environment I would think they would be shooting for.

Satellite internet is a pain.  It receives and transmits this makes problems compared to like satellite tv.  On satellite tv you can adjust it and tune it yourself on setup.  On satellite internet if something goes wrong you are suppose to call the company as with transmitting they treat it very careful.  And that does not bring up latency that can happen.

As soon as I got DSL where I live.  I changed very very quick.   There is just no comparison.  But satellite internet does serve a purpose for very remote area.

Some interesting responses here, esp. from WhatTheGox that nailed it on the head literally.


Nice that you have such a place. Historically settlements are done close to water, as water was the roads in old days. You used boats for transport and shipping. Also fertile grounds were possible because of abundance of water.

With modern technology it is possible to make the dessert fertile. It's not cheap, and it's not easy, but it is possible. You can build machines today that will use solar power to extract water from the air.

A dessert might not be the best place for a settlement on a low budget, whereas a remote ranch in a fertile environment might be better. There are pro's and con's to everything.

I strongly believe that the man that's hellbent on achieving something will achieve it, or die trying. :) And of course incremental steps, a wise and intelligent approach with careful planning will yield a higher chance of success.

As for other people, there are usually two camps when it comes to do something:

The no-can-do camp. You recognize them by the fact that they claim it will be very difficult to achieve objective X because of N,M,Y,X and Z. In reality they mentally sabotage themselves before they even got started.

Problems are everywhere, and things will happen that you did not plan for. If you see those things as challenges and plan ahead, you have a much greater chance of success in what you're doing.

The yes-can-do camp has a subset of individuals that are intelligent, hardworking, wise, disciplined and have good craftsmanship over a wide array of disciplines. To achieve objective X, they ignore N,M,Y,X and Z and deems it irrelevant, or extract the elements that needs attention and looks close at how to solve it to achieve X. Never enter a relationship with any individual of the  no-can-do camp, even though some of them claim they're interested, they're really not, even if the resistance is on a subconscious level. Such people only drain the energy and is of no help in achieving anything.

Some good reasons to escape the system is to avoid things as pollution, corruption, noise, superficial people with superficial values and annoying judgmental people. A life where every morning you wake up, and you decide yourself what you do that day, without having a boss hanging on your neck, without you being afraid of saying the wrong thing in your community or in your workplace.

One option could be to leave everything hightech behind, and live like they did in the old times. However, I think that's too radical, as I like technology too much, and nothing would be more fun that to build your own projects, on your own time, see it work and feel the independence.

Life for most urban people these days is to wake up, sit in a car to work, where you sit even more, then you talk with other people in a superficial way, talk about sports, fashion, your kids, where you're going in the vacation, the latest happenings of the kardashians etc. There are few people who go deep in their conversations. And if you are a critical thinker, thinks outside the box, and is critical of the current system, there's not many to talk to. Once you start talking about the banking system, geopolitics etc, most people just morphs into a huge question mark.

And such most drones or slaves waste their lifes, without most of them even knowing it. That is to be said, they might not even realize themselves that they're wasting their life, but in my eyes they do.

I feel bad about all the material things I and my family posess, we use too much resources, and there's too much waste. We eat too much food that's preprocessed, although we try our best to stay healthy.. I feel bad opening a bottle of milk in the fridge. Knowing that I support a capitalistic system where the farmer which is the one that produced the value is the one getting the shaft. At the same time, I feel bad when I throw all this garbage, all the plastic containers, all the waste. Is that life, is it sustainable?

At the same time it makes me very sad to see all the profit greed and corruption in society. How much money you have, and your connections is more important than being a critical thinker. So your position in society is more important than logic, facts and science. Politicians decide over the common man, what he can and cannot do, and it seems like the concern of most politicians is the next election and to bow to their corporate sponsors. This goes down to the smallest municipalities. And if you speak up against it, you get hammered down like you're some dumbwit.

So there's a few choices:

- You become a part of the system and try to amass power and influence, that's not really an option unless you're a power hungry person that enjoys the spotlight.
- You accept status quo and becomes another slave, yet different than the others as you're aware you're a slave. Slavery in the sense that you need to work for decades to pay off your mortgage. And to keep your job, you cannot speak critically of the status quo. This enslaves the majority of the population, and most people are afraid to speak up because they rather want to protect their lifestyle and their family.
- You do your best to declutter your life, simplify it, and fill it with what is valuable for you.

Walking around saying and doing everything that' "expected by you", and watching all the people who are under the thumb of governments, corporations, banks and the massmedia makes me cringe.

The crave for independence is something that's in every man's soul. I do think that the western civilization while it has many good aspects also has many negative aspects. For example, when I go out in public, I'm every time judged by my looks, my clothes, my car and the people that accompany me. If I dress up nicely, drive a nice car and are with people also looking good, I'm usually getting VIP treatment. If I come alone, with a beard, no car, and some old clothes, more often than not I'm totally ignored and treated as a sub human. I guess we're all judging others on some level or another. But in reality we can't know much about another human being before getting to know that human being.

It annoys me to great length to see that most people are only concerned with themselves and does not speak up about wrongdoings in their local community or country. I hesitate myself to do so, as you need lots or resources to protect yourself if you get enemies.

So my conclusion has become that the best solution is to opt out, to spend life learning, thinkering, investigating, ie. being of the hacker mindset, to emphasize other qualities than materialism and superficial values. To me having a nice car and a nice house does not make me tingly. I have no need to impress others, and feel sorry for those that feel the need to do so.

In most countries there's a division of classes. If you're in a lower class, no matter how smart you are, those of a higher class will not listen to you. To me, fullfillment in life is to be at peace with yourself, to be content with who and where you are and to have a sense of well being and if you need to surround yourself with people, surround yourself with people that you're on the same page with.

I see society at large as a broken machine. Of course I could try to change it, but most likely such an attempt would be futile, and I would live a very unbalanced life dealing with all the power, corruption, attacks and outright lunacy that surrounds us. It's easy to see what kind of toll this places on individuals that genuinely try, even those having 100% health and that are very intelligent, often comes to their witts end.

So it might be very egoistical, but I figured as long as I only live a human life, and it's not long, why not make the best out of it? Go somewhere, live modestly and expand my own mind and thinker with technology to the best of my abilities, preferably going off grid and being self sustained. It would be interesting to see if those who has done this actually became happier persons.


To make an alternative settlement (I am sure there's some already), the people involved would need to be genuine and to be trusted, and to be on the "same plate". There would always be disagreements, but mature people would be able to sort such disagreements out before it escalated, esp. if the core value base is pretty equal among the participants.

Also by decluttering my life, I mean a whole range of things. For example, if I receive a parking ticket although I did nothing wrong, that's a great annoyance and clutter. Of course if I were very rich I would not care either way.. But I do not have a genuine desire to become very rich. Happiness is more important. Likewise, people who care about small things who does not really matter is extremely annoying, for instance if you left a pair of socks on the floor after exercise, and somebody attacks you harshly for being so sloppy. I don't need that.

Feedback and criticism is ok. However, constants attack and bullying only makes your life miserable. And I never liked people that have power over me that uses it just because they can, even if it's against the rules. Even if you use logic argumentation, many times it fell on a cement floor. So I figure it's better to avoid all that hassle entirely.

Mostly it is about life and giving it meaning. I do not find much meaning in our modern society where you are mostly judged by appearance and your actions. To "win" in society it's not about acting god, or to be altrustic, but it's about manipulating others to have your way. And to "win" means to have lots of status symbols, money and power. For what reason and to what end?

It is often said that "simple minds are happier". And sometimes I wish I was just a simpleton that went to watch soccer games, play xbox and hang out with the family. But for me, there's always something wrong, something that's not just right. I look around me, and I do not like what I see at all. I'm glad I've found bitcoin, as it has opened my mind to a lot of things, and made me learn more about society, politics and finance, perhaps I even learned too much. For sure I did not become a happier man of learning all of this.

I think if the contact surface with the society at large is reduced, and I focus on the close things, I will be happier. I have read studies that people who are working the land feels happier and also that happiness is larger in small knit communities. I might seem elitist, and perhaps I am, although I'm more than aware of my own shortcomings, I feel that most of the time I'm surrounded by people who do not share my vision and outlook on life. I want to talk about all kinds of scientific things, like renewable energy, which I find highly interesting, politics, money systems, philosophy, psychology, body-language, exercise, nutrition, history, architecture, space. In short, I'm a curious mind, that rather wants to watch a documentary than to watch a soap opera. And I do question authority. Most people seem to be just accepting what idiocy is put upon them. Just because some person has a high ranking title does not mean that this person is a God and everything he says or do is right.

I am annoyed about the high penetration or religion even in most modern countries. I do not think religion contributes much to a better world in terms of scientific advances, but it rather holds people under its thumb. Admittedly it is better in some countries, and far worse in others. Even in the most sophisticated countries there's staggering bureaucracy, inefficiency and unjustice.

I do not want to live in a society where you at any time can be stopped and harassed by police, even for having done absolutely nothing wrong at all. The fascist, totalitarian direction many countries are going towards, that calls themselves democratic, is just horrible.

I want to live in a society where there's mutual respect, understanding and where logic and rational thought is held in high regard, where decisions are made on cold facts, and not raw emotions. Where things are efficient and there's little red tape.

In short, I am a misfit in our society. And as such, I've come to the conclusion that the best option is to remove my contact surface with it as much as possible. Understand me correctly, I love good discussions, and I love being with great people, but it's the overall picture that makes me cringe. I enjoy rather walking in the woods with a dog, looking at a tree than walking in an asphalt streets and looking at everybody else and they looking at me.

As a man I do not need a house that costs millions to buy and takes decade to pay down. All I need is space for making food, a bed and some company, a dog.

As for those that talked about guns, ammo and guard-dog and brought it up in a negative light.. If you live remotely, perhaps even a place where there might be bears and wolfes (If you chose to live in Alaska or Siberia), or you get visited by looters in a remote dessert spot, there's no police to rescue you, so the choice might be between killing or getting killed. I know what I would chose.

And all in all I think the modern life is too stressful, so it would be good to escape from it. Since the human life span is short, would it not be smart to attempt to optimize the quality of it? Since I have already escaped from the indoctrination that is public school and come to the realization of the status quo, why should I not do something about it, why should I do what everybody "expects" me to do?

Since I cannot change society, and have no wish to attempt, the only thing I can change is myself and to do so, I need first to change my environment.

Of course, this is not a position of being a victim, as I have much resources compared to most people in the entire world. But it's just that having an ordinary job that does not make me enthusiastic makes me feel more dead than alive, and when I look around me, most people in reality look more dead than alive.

Would it not be nice to have the world crumble in unrest around you, while you sit in a secure mountain spot, self sufficient, not dependent on anyone? Of course planning and incremental steps are of paramount importance.

Appreciate all thoughts, as I think these matters are of grave importance.

I consider myself a realist not a can or can't do camp.   I just see things with lots of obisticals not as good as choice.

I think you going somewhere near water just makes much more sense then trying middle if dessert.  You can for not a ton of money get wells dug, and have lots of water.  No pulling it out of air, etc..   Also having land you could plant gardens, big fields, have animals.   The land is a huge plus compared to land that is barren and cant do anything easy.

I agree with you on most of your arguments, however extracting water from air is feasible and there exist commercial solutions for this today.

In terms of level of difficulty the dessert option would rank high up there. I've seen it be done before, and I am convinced it can be done however. Some people would also like a dessert climate.

Why would you want the dessert climate?  It just seems like it is going  to be harder for no reason.  And in the end cost a lot more money.

I am decently informed on some of the topics.  I live on a family farm.  Even if you turn desert into fertile dirt not all crops will grow in that environment. You better off with easy regular farm land and you can store crops so you could have them year around.

Also being able to dig wells easy and multiple  if needed is huge.  You can get huge amounts of water from ground water compared to searching and searching in desert.

You don't want to exit the system. The patriots are wrong. You want to use the system. Do it the Karl Lentz way and take the system down. It may not be easy, but people are doing it all the time a little. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D

:)

And then your little house gets destroyed by a massive storm, knocking out your power forever unless you're an electrician and know your shit. Then, you would need access to get more food and such. Basically what I'm saying is that you have to be rich. You need stuff airdropped to your little island.

Once you have enough money to exit the system, I doubt you will.

Do this.
Doing what you suggest lets "them" win.

Ummm I have a tornado room that can handle pretty much any midwest storm.   So I'm not worried there.   

And having propane powering some things, and generator's I can turn on I am not to worried about small electrical outages.

I still say go with fertile land over a dessert.

When op says moving to a remote island, storms meaning it could destroy your entire home and flood you.

Also, good luck building that tornado room as well.

Absolutely not. Here is why. The American system is strongly in favor of the people. We know, because it has taken them 200 years to actually crack what the founding fathers set in place... and that is only crack it. If they could have beaten us, they would have. The system is too strong for them, in our favor.

If we stop using the system... if we toss the system out... they will take us over in a minute. What we need is training about how to use the system better. The training isn't in the things that the patriot gurus say. It is in common sense.

Common sense says:
1. If somebody wrongs you, and won't correct what he did, take him to court;
2. Make it a jury trial, even for the tiny things;
3. The judge is not the judge; the jury is the judge; the judge only exists to keep order in court and pronounce the judgments of the jury;
4. Jury nullification is the method whereby the jury can remake the law, judging both the merits of the case, and the legality of the law.

Teach the jury about their strength.

Anyone who wants to do away with the system is either ignorant of the benefits that it has, or they are against what is good for the people.

There is only one thing that stands between the people and total freedom from government. It is the knowledge of how to use the system against itself.

Use the system against itself by countering the man/woman in the governmental office, not the office.

Do you hate the IRS? They don't stand a chance against you if you resist the agent personally, for doing you wrong, taking your property.

Possibly the strongest foundational court rule is, the plaintiff must appear... in court, on the stand, to be questioned by you, a man or woman. Stand as a man, present in a court of record, not represented, and not representing yourself. Require the plaintiff to take the stand under oath or affirmation and state the things to be true that he alleges against you. If the plaintiff is a corporation like THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, he can't get on the stand. He can't speak, because he has no voice box. You win by default.

Start learning how to do this. This is the start of your training. Train now, before you need it.

Do you have a relative in prison? He/she is your property. Learn how to require government to give you your property back through a simple letter-writing and then court process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D

:)

It would be better to live somewhere very isolated but still hospitable which a desert environment isn't  You could buy a plot of land in the woods and next to a river or lake or perhaps even the ocean. Sometimes these can go for quite cheap. You would be able to grow your own plants in your backyard (which would be unlimited in size), set up a greenhouse, and have solar panels installed on your roof. You would also have to set up a rainwater collection system, as you said.

Living next to a body of water also has the additional advantage that you could take up fishing for additional food.

http://s10.postimg.org/nl2dl7eqx/texta.jpg

If you have even more money, then you could buy a private island. The cheapest ones can even be bought for under $200,000:

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/american-island
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/sweet-island

In fact, this is what I intend to do although I still need more money to achieve this goal. Unfortunately, I'll probably still have to pay property taxes/rates and perhaps income tax too for those things that can't easily be bought with Bitcoin (e.g. groceries).

Took a special builder to do the storm room properly.  But once done it is very nice I have to admit I like it much more then the old cellar option.

And no it can not take floods, but in midwest don't have much flooding issues :). 

Most things I would say do not make it to jury.   I think settlement is much more common.   The expense of having a jury trial on small items does happen, but most of time it's easier to have 2 lawyers talk and come up with a solution.

And I personally like the system.  I like having roads, police, fiiremen, ect, etc.   To not pay taxes and in middle of no where is kinda unrealistic.   I don't think you could even find to many places you could get your own country to do what you wish.

Bills and the Collection Process – Karl Lentz (US) - http://shapefreedom.com/directory/bill-and-collection-process-us-karl-lentz/:
:)

This concept sounds interesting  but it would need some financial support and willpower.

Not everybody lives in the US. Karl Lentz seems like an interesting case. From the brief time I looked into him, I read that he lived out of a container and used all his money to get back his child, a process that took 6 years. The state took his child because it had downs syndrome.

The way I see it, the court system enrich lawyers and the one with the most resources usually wins, unless you're unusually sharp and well educated and know how to fight the system. However, such cases can take years, and which sane person would use most of his productive years on such issues? To me it appears very stressfull, and to what benefit.

I "won" over a large organization once, but the stress and work leading up to that decision, and then the "payout" in the end, could not at all justify the fight done. Next time the chance for such a fight occurs, I will walk away and save myself the time. It is not worth it.

In my view, "the system" is better avoided as much as possible. The post of Lorenzo was interesting, who has not thought along his lines..

Nah I couldn't do this the way you describe. If I'm gonna use niceties from modern society, like internet and other tech, it'll have to be 100% and I'd have to be in a city. Your idea is one I've fantasized about a lot but not with any tech. I simply can't be in nature (like long term) with laptops, mobile phones etc, I want the experience to be as pure as possible. Also I'd much rather be on a desert island as far as possible from the mainland and I would definitely not want to be part of a group. The ideal scenario would be that I have my girl with me and that's it  ;)

EDIT - equally ideal would be one where I am alone on the island (not ever with friends or family though)

If you are married, this is an impossibilty :)


Best bet is to buy a small island (assuming you had the money), that way you would have no worries about violating local/national laws etc, you could do what the hell you like.

Yes, I have been looking into that, and it's an interesting thought. I wonder if you'd get dead tired of the island after a while though, if it's not big enough. Also if you need a boat, you need money for fuel, unless it is solar powered. That would be a big expense post. You could of course have a rowing boat of sorts.

I have looked at many documentaries about people living remotely. Since I never tried it, I don't know if it is for me, but I'd like to try. One possibility is to try it part time without making a 100% commitment. What I do know is that I like nature a lot.

As for nagging, true women can be quite the naggers, some are worse than others though. If you want it entirely without noise, you have to go by yourself and perhaps a few animals. A dog always does what you want, so no nagging there.


I think it is possible to combine it. For instance, if you have a cabin in the mountains, you could go hunting or fishing, and when you get home, you could kick back and watch some movie on your solar powered computer. It would not be a problem to bring with you 10000 film titles to the cabin. Would take some time to get through all of it. :) Also, if there's cell coverage, you'd have access to call people and to use the internet. I don't know how everything would feel without being able to communicate with other people at all. Even communicating with other people on the internet stimulates your intellect. It is quite possible to be an outdoors-kind-of-guy and at the same time thinker with electronics, write programs and communicate with others on the internet.

While cutting everything off and go "natural and pure" is a nice thought. I think I'd miss the intellectual input, also there are some products from the modern world I would not mind to have, both in the edible section and for hardware and other tools.

What I would really enjoy to avoid is Nepotism, Corruption, Pollution, Noise and other negative things that goes with the modern society of today.

There was a whole series I watched earlier on youtube with people who lived remote lives in places were most people would not live. I can't seem to find it again though. I imagine I would need to learn how to survive and not go cold turkey immediately.

Thing about intellectual input is that I'm not hungry for it at all. I play a LOT of chess and video games at home and I always have my earphones on listening to music whenever I go out but I don't miss those at all or even think about them when I'm out in nature. It's almost like my mind go into hibernation or something lol. I did some pretty long treks in the Himalayas when I was backpacking across SE Asia and I never once missed city comfort. I walked for 1 week up the mountain, in the middle of nowhere by myself, just me, a rucksack with bare necessities and a sleeping bag  :) That's my best life experience so far. Seriously wish I could've stayed there forever lol.

Don't know if you've seen this one but here's a nice long documentary about a couple living alone in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0rZn8HFmQ

Just a practical question: How did you get food on your long trek? Did you bring money and bought it along, did you bring it all with your, or did you harvest from nature? Which aspects of the trek was most appealing to you?

As for intellectual input, a period without much of it is nice, but eventually, If you lived in a cabin in the woods, at one point, you would miss to read, communicate and learn.

Sure I had money with me, it wouldn't have been possible otherwise. I climbed up to 4400m but already at 2500 - 3000 m, you can barely grow anything and as you go up to 4000m there is practically no life around, no grass or animals, it's just rocks, dust, ice and wind  :) If it was possible to be self-sufficient up there, like live off the land, I would've lost myself in the wilderness and not come back lol. I actually overstayed my visa by more than a year  ;D Those mountains are out of this world.

That sounds very interesting. What was the best thing about the mountains? Was it the freedom, the nature, the wind, the peace and quiet? What about water, did you get that from springs and rivers?

Water is probably the only thing that you don't have to worry about, the ice melting at the top flows down the mountain, you'd still have to know where to look though. Worst case you still got plenty of ice around (provided you got a small burner). Up to a certain height, you can still find small isolated settlements with maybe 3-8 wooden huts but they are very rare. I had a map with me to help me locate certain things.
Best thing about the mountains? I don't think it is even possible to describe the feeling. The peace is pretty pretty intense, it felt like I was completely detached from humanity  :)

While exiting the system is a great idea, it's also smart to be realistic about it. As it demands a lot of skills, resources, work and money.

Anyone thinking about doing it should do lots of research, and take small steps in that regard. I find some other forums much more mature and discussing these matters in a more serious manner.

I think many people have a desire for independency and being self sufficient, if not 100%,  at least be prepared in the event of a blackout or freak weather. In the event of a break down in society, for example, if there is a sudden shortage of oil, infra structure will break down quite quickly (no new stock to stores), as stores run out of supplies. In crowded areas, it could get ugly, fast.

I'm a bit surprised this topic did not spur more serious discussion, as I'm pretty sure there are many of you that look into alternative ways of living than the established system provides.

Also, you may consider exiting the system without physically leaving it. That's what I'm doing, only going to my desert escape a few days per year.

If you want to know more about settling down in the desert, you may look at Dubai. There were huge money involved, but this is a successful example.

There's no way to fully scape the system. You'll eventually need help of some sort (most likely medical) that is provided by the so called system, therefore as soon as you step in asking for help you are on there again.

Well, it's not a black and white issue - mostly it's about reducing the amount of red tape that needs to be dealt with.


Those of you interested in these issues might like to check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_State_of_Forvik

Also doing some googling on the case will bring up some interesting videos and interviews.

Basically, the guy doing this has claimed a very small island in Shetland, and then he also claims that Shetland is not a part of Scotland, and that no officials actually can thus prove that Shetland is a part of the UK legally speaking, quite an interesting case with a man litterally putting his life out there (he has had to be rescued many times at sea going in a dodgy boat in high seas without any security backups).

He's quite determined it seems. Here's his homepage:

http://www.forvik.com/

Perhaps even bitcoin would be a good fit for him.

He refuses to pay any taxes to the UK, and he's been arrested several times. Interesting chap. He is also minting his own coin, perhaps bitcoin would be something for him, I am sure many bitcoiners would share his views on "the system".

This "crazy system" already has a name, it's called "living off the grid" and people do it all over the world.  You don't hear about them, though, because get this, they are off the grid!

I like your utopia OP, but where to put it? You say no taxes, but who owns the land and under what jurisdiction? Places without government are some of the scariest places I have ever been. No government would mean anyone who wanted to could just come and take it all. There is always authority and power. It may not be a government but someone is in control of every inch of this planet. Makes me wish I was a caveman. 
 :(

Do you know this country? it has yet established :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland

http://liberland.org/en/main/

Thanks for the links, facinating. Micronations are an interesting concept, except from Nauru, I don't know of many of them that are successful. The people at Nauru has even attempted to buy new land since they're looking to relocate some or all of their people.


Well, of course, that's some of the beauty of it. Live or die free. Like in the old times. But of course, when you come down with a bad case of some easily curable medical condition, I assume that a modern hospital is not a bad idea. ;) A self sustained community would need functions for most types of services, and again those services would be dependent on buying stuff from the system. There are already numerous places in the world were you do not pay tax. Somalia is an interesting place, but with the amount of violence, any white man would stick out like a sore thumb.

While it might not be possible to exit the system completely, living somewhere peaceful and being self sufficient to a degree I think would make for more happiness.


Off grid as in having your own electricity and your own water facilities does not mean that you're necessarily disconnected from the internet, but naturally those who do not care of the internet, you never hear of unless somebody documents it somehow. There was a series with a man building his own cabin in the woods of Alaska that was quite popular on youtube.

The amount of work involved should not be dismissed, as many has failed being to optimistic about their chances of self-reliance. Also this is an interesting intellectual pursuit, to learn and thinker with the idea. Everything starts with an idea

It is somewhat scary though the amount of poision that humans has poured into the ecosystem polluting even fish and animals in remote areas. Perhaps you need to be a chemist to god off grid and be-self reliant lest you kill yourself from feeding on poisoned fish.

Well forget the desert and buy yourself and old oil rig and make a sea nation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Would be easier to defend a platform again pirates than your solo desert dwelling again invasion.

LMAO OP there is a 0% chance the jews would let a pocket of people do this, 0%.  They would launch a false flag attack near you, blame it on you and come to your village and kill/rape and torture everyone.

Nothing like a little anti Semitic posting to get things going...
 ::)