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Author Topic: Crazy idea about exiting the system.  (Read 1721 times)
Cryptowatch.com (OP)
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April 10, 2015, 02:31:29 AM
 #1

Bare with me as I bring you this crazy idea.

With all the bureaucracy in most countries, and being under the thumb of the banks and the government, I was thinking along these lines:

What if you bought land in a very remote area, perhaps a dessert, a place were nobody comes around usually. You could still get internet access, perhaps by sattelite if there was no cell phone coverage. I would think an entry level package would not set you back too much. Then you'd need a truck, gasoline and some money to get all your gear.

You could set up a small settlement and with the usage of modern technology you could use solar panels (perhaps even a windmill or two if windy) to create electricity. With that electricity you could extract water from the air, even Sahara dessert air contains 25% water. There's ready made solutions to buy that would accommodate this for you. With solar power you could also cool down your cabin to a tolerable temperature. Building smart placing the settlement somewhere were the likelihood of it all being washed away by a surprise storm with heavy rain was very low, and also having a couple of large water tanks for gathering rain water (could be collected off the roofs).

With the water, and some soil you bring with you, you could even make a greenhouse, and perhaps cool it instead of warming it, you could grow edible plants. You could also have some animals, like rabbits, chicken etc. With your internet connection, you could do some small amounts of work, perhaps translation, blogging, coding or something else that could be done online.

Ocassionally you could truck out for supplies to the nearest town of stuff you'd need. If you were really ingenious, you might even make yourself a solar powered drone that could fly to the nearest city to pick up stuff you wanted to buy. Using bitcoin, you'd cut yourself off completely from the current financial system.

- No bank accounts.
- No connection to the power grid.
- No connection to municipality water or seawage system.
- Internet connection, most likely through sattelite (could be paid directly in bitcoin if possible, or through a proxy)
- No property tax (I'm sure there's places in the world where you would not need to pay taxed for a few acres of dry land in a remote spot)
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo.
- You could build a self sustainable eco-system in a small dome. Not an easy project, but doable for the adventurous person. This could include a fish tank, for raising your own fish!
- Any escrements and urine from humans and animals could be reused as fertilizer for the plants.

Basically what you need for survival is a place to live with tolerable temperatures, water and food. If you were able to do all year crops, you would always have a constant supply of vegetables and fruits. With chickens, you would always have eggs, and with rabbits and other small animals, you could treat yourself with some fresh meat now and then.

Perhaps a group would be better than just one man or a couple. As there would be many things to do, but as the group grows, so would the amount of things to do and the mouths to feed grow. Also with a larger group, the chance of disagreements and fallouts are bigger.

Some advantages to such a scheme:

* Silence (not even a remote airplane to be heard most days)
* Nobody nagging you.
* Freedom, no property tax collection, no bills (except the internet bill).

Now, there might be occasions where you needed supplies and services from society. For example dental or medical care. Also you might need/want to buy supplies and certain foods that you cannot produce yourself. Perhaps for self reliance living somewhere else might be a better idea, perhaps somewhere where you could do fishing and hunting.

If there's enough sun and/or wind, electricity should not be an issue, as it would be provided by solar panels. As for any important machinery you should have spare parts, and you should have backup systems

I was also thinking about the possibility of running a online service in such a place, what about an anonymous e-mail system. I guess the sat connection could be cancelled should anyone want to shut you down, but how would they find your location, if it could not easily be found in any official registry (imagine land was purchased through an unrelated company).


Sure, a lot of work to make something like this work.

I remember I saw a youtube video of a man living like this, can't find it again though.

Do anyone of you know of anyone that did something like this?

Perhaps it is just a romantic idea to do something like this, but being self sufficient must be really great, and not having noisy people around and no mailbox and no bills, it would be super great.

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April 10, 2015, 03:27:48 AM
 #2

Some of it just does not make sense.   You talk about growing food and yet living in a dessert.  A dessert would be great chances are for solar energy, but as far as growing crops it's not going to happen I don't think.

If you don't have money how are you going to buy bitcoins to buy the supplies trucked in? 

Don't get me wrong I would love a "star trek" universe where you do what makes you happy and everyone get's along.  I just don't see it happening any time soon.
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April 10, 2015, 03:46:27 AM
 #3

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?

I've put my life on hold before (quit my job, got a one way ticket to to backpack in Asia for months with nothing planned or booked).
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April 10, 2015, 04:48:49 AM
 #4

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?


I can relate to OP.... there really isnt that much to gain from modern society living i find - i guess it depends on your outlook.  The older ive got ive come to the conclusion modern society is kinda 99% meaningless.  Unless you have some actual power in society you are just a meaningless drone.  Doing things like supporting the bitcoin network is about as good as it gets to havng any real large scale autonomy.   Living in big super tribes of millions takes its toll.  In order for success people will drive themselves to sociopathic levels to compete. These sociopaths then end up with the power and normalise sociopathic tendencies via media/gov etc... end result is we end up with a bunch of crazy people in society from following the message from the people with power.

I'd much rather live in a small tribe like OP suggests, it feels right, it feels natural.  What concerns me is practicality, if you created great wealth in this desert tribe you could be targeted.   Another thing is, if you were succesful and created a way out for other people to copy you could be targeted.  People trying to escape the system seem to get targeted by the system.
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April 10, 2015, 05:33:54 AM
 #5

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?


I can relate to OP.... there really isnt that much to gain from modern society living i find - i guess it depends on your outlook.  The older ive got ive come to the conclusion modern society is kinda 99% meaningless.  Unless you have some actual power in society you are just a meaningless drone.  Doing things like supporting the bitcoin network is about as good as it gets to havng any real large scale autonomy.   Living in big super tribes of millions takes its toll.  In order for success people will drive themselves to sociopathic levels to compete. These sociopaths then end up with the power and normalise sociopathic tendencies via media/gov etc... end result is we end up with a bunch of crazy people in society from following the message from the people with power.

I'd much rather live in a small tribe like OP suggests, it feels right, it feels natural.  What concerns me is practicality, if you created great wealth in this desert tribe you could be targeted.   Another thing is, if you were succesful and created a way out for other people to copy you could be targeted.  People trying to escape the system seem to get targeted by the system.


It does not sound like a peaceful tribe.  More of a military tribe with needing:
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo

I personally think modern society adds a lot.  Things like a security system, police to help, firemen, roads.... etc, etc.  I would like no taxes but i realize some of them are necessary.

I would argue without modern society there would be no computers, and no bitcoins.  You would have a trade and have to go to barter system like once it was in most places.
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April 10, 2015, 05:56:08 AM
 #6

Some of it just does not make sense.   You talk about growing food and yet living in a dessert.  A dessert would be great chances are for solar energy, but as far as growing crops it's not going to happen I don't think.

If you don't have money how are you going to buy bitcoins to buy the supplies trucked in? 

Don't get me wrong I would love a "star trek" universe where you do what makes you happy and everyone get's along.  I just don't see it happening any time soon.
How could it possible? You do everything by yourself, no one are available to be hired by you. You should know how to install the solar system, how to extract water from the air, and how to make a greenhouse! Then you are a genius.

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April 10, 2015, 06:21:25 AM
 #7

Some of it just does not make sense.   You talk about growing food and yet living in a dessert.  A dessert would be great chances are for solar energy, but as far as growing crops it's not going to happen I don't think.

If you don't have money how are you going to buy bitcoins to buy the supplies trucked in? 

Don't get me wrong I would love a "star trek" universe where you do what makes you happy and everyone get's along.  I just don't see it happening any time soon.
How could it possible? You do everything by yourself, no one are available to be hired by you. You should know how to install the solar system, how to extract water from the air, and how to make a greenhouse! Then you are a genius.

Sure a greenhouse will work for some items.  You could small batches of most things.  But think of things such as wheat and other BIG crops.  It takes a lot of land. 

Are you going to build a massive greenhouse for each of these crops?  Most big box stores get out of season things from other countries where they are in season as green house is not a viable solution on big crops.
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April 10, 2015, 10:37:10 AM
 #8

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?


I can relate to OP.... there really isnt that much to gain from modern society living i find - i guess it depends on your outlook.  The older ive got ive come to the conclusion modern society is kinda 99% meaningless.  Unless you have some actual power in society you are just a meaningless drone.  Doing things like supporting the bitcoin network is about as good as it gets to havng any real large scale autonomy.   Living in big super tribes of millions takes its toll.  In order for success people will drive themselves to sociopathic levels to compete. These sociopaths then end up with the power and normalise sociopathic tendencies via media/gov etc... end result is we end up with a bunch of crazy people in society from following the message from the people with power.

I'd much rather live in a small tribe like OP suggests, it feels right, it feels natural.  What concerns me is practicality, if you created great wealth in this desert tribe you could be targeted.   Another thing is, if you were succesful and created a way out for other people to copy you could be targeted.  People trying to escape the system seem to get targeted by the system.


It does not sound like a peaceful tribe.  More of a military tribe with needing:
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo

I personally think modern society adds a lot.  Things like a security system, police to help, firemen, roads.... etc, etc.  I would like no taxes but i realize some of them are necessary.

I would argue without modern society there would be no computers, and no bitcoins.  You would have a trade and have to go to barter system like once it was in most places.

Yeah maybe you make some good points its hard to say for sure.  Would it be possible to design a small tribe without people with guns and guard dogs running around idk.  The guns seem less of a problem if kept away from children.

Next question is could we still collaborate and develop things like computers/bitcoins as a series of small tribes? To me the goal would be to not completely ignore the rest of human race but just not be part of a mulitmillion person tribe.  Generally i like helping random strangers its cool Smiley.
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April 10, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
 #9

I've got that. A house in some kind of a desert.

No electricity, no water, no mobile phone connection and no Internet. I'm going there from time to time, staying till the supplies I've brought last. I've never been there more than 3 days. It would take a huge budget to give the place the comfort of a modern home. Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

You have to look at US' history. There were big settlements where the land was fertile, and water plentiful, but very few in the desert.

I used to be a citizen and a taxpayer. Those days are long gone.
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April 10, 2015, 02:39:40 PM
 #10

Sounds like going to the cabin/cottage/camping, except permanently.  What would be the reason for doing this permanently?  Sounds kind of like a shamanic journey or vanaprastha, where one leaves society for an extended period of time.

It could be seen as a desired lifestyle or a challenge.  If it was a challenge then it would be temporary, and if it was the desired lifestyle, I'm curious as to why it is desired?


I can relate to OP.... there really isnt that much to gain from modern society living i find - i guess it depends on your outlook.  The older ive got ive come to the conclusion modern society is kinda 99% meaningless.  Unless you have some actual power in society you are just a meaningless drone.  Doing things like supporting the bitcoin network is about as good as it gets to havng any real large scale autonomy.   Living in big super tribes of millions takes its toll.  In order for success people will drive themselves to sociopathic levels to compete. These sociopaths then end up with the power and normalise sociopathic tendencies via media/gov etc... end result is we end up with a bunch of crazy people in society from following the message from the people with power.

I'd much rather live in a small tribe like OP suggests, it feels right, it feels natural.  What concerns me is practicality, if you created great wealth in this desert tribe you could be targeted.   Another thing is, if you were succesful and created a way out for other people to copy you could be targeted.  People trying to escape the system seem to get targeted by the system.


It does not sound like a peaceful tribe.  More of a military tribe with needing:
- A guard dog
- Some guns and ammo

I personally think modern society adds a lot.  Things like a security system, police to help, firemen, roads.... etc, etc.  I would like no taxes but i realize some of them are necessary.

I would argue without modern society there would be no computers, and no bitcoins.  You would have a trade and have to go to barter system like once it was in most places.

Yeah maybe you make some good points its hard to say for sure.  Would it be possible to design a small tribe without people with guns and guard dogs running around idk.  The guns seem less of a problem if kept away from children.

Next question is could we still collaborate and develop things like computers/bitcoins as a series of small tribes? To me the goal would be to not completely ignore the rest of human race but just not be part of a mulitmillion person tribe.  Generally i like helping random strangers its cool Smiley.

I still will refer to "star trek" like society.  I love the idea, of everyone contributing in their own way.    I honestly hope one day we can get to this, but I don't think it will be in my lifetime.

I agree guns are not a huge thing.  As target shooter I like them, and a safe can do a good job of keeping them safe. 

If in this society your carrying a gun and letting your attack dog walk with you it's not the peaceful environment I would think they would be shooting for.
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April 10, 2015, 02:44:30 PM
 #11

Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

Satellite internet is a pain.  It receives and transmits this makes problems compared to like satellite tv.  On satellite tv you can adjust it and tune it yourself on setup.  On satellite internet if something goes wrong you are suppose to call the company as with transmitting they treat it very careful.  And that does not bring up latency that can happen.

As soon as I got DSL where I live.  I changed very very quick.   There is just no comparison.  But satellite internet does serve a purpose for very remote area.
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April 10, 2015, 03:48:04 PM
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Some interesting responses here, esp. from WhatTheGox that nailed it on the head literally.

I've got that. A house in some kind of a desert.

No electricity, no water, no mobile phone connection and no Internet. I'm going there from time to time, staying till the supplies I've brought last. I've never been there more than 3 days. It would take a huge budget to give the place the comfort of a modern home. Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

You have to look at US' history. There were big settlements where the land was fertile, and water plentiful, but very few in the desert.

Nice that you have such a place. Historically settlements are done close to water, as water was the roads in old days. You used boats for transport and shipping. Also fertile grounds were possible because of abundance of water.

With modern technology it is possible to make the dessert fertile. It's not cheap, and it's not easy, but it is possible. You can build machines today that will use solar power to extract water from the air.

A dessert might not be the best place for a settlement on a low budget, whereas a remote ranch in a fertile environment might be better. There are pro's and con's to everything.

I strongly believe that the man that's hellbent on achieving something will achieve it, or die trying. Smiley And of course incremental steps, a wise and intelligent approach with careful planning will yield a higher chance of success.

As for other people, there are usually two camps when it comes to do something:

The no-can-do camp. You recognize them by the fact that they claim it will be very difficult to achieve objective X because of N,M,Y,X and Z. In reality they mentally sabotage themselves before they even got started.

Problems are everywhere, and things will happen that you did not plan for. If you see those things as challenges and plan ahead, you have a much greater chance of success in what you're doing.

The yes-can-do camp has a subset of individuals that are intelligent, hardworking, wise, disciplined and have good craftsmanship over a wide array of disciplines. To achieve objective X, they ignore N,M,Y,X and Z and deems it irrelevant, or extract the elements that needs attention and looks close at how to solve it to achieve X. Never enter a relationship with any individual of the  no-can-do camp, even though some of them claim they're interested, they're really not, even if the resistance is on a subconscious level. Such people only drain the energy and is of no help in achieving anything.

Some good reasons to escape the system is to avoid things as pollution, corruption, noise, superficial people with superficial values and annoying judgmental people. A life where every morning you wake up, and you decide yourself what you do that day, without having a boss hanging on your neck, without you being afraid of saying the wrong thing in your community or in your workplace.

One option could be to leave everything hightech behind, and live like they did in the old times. However, I think that's too radical, as I like technology too much, and nothing would be more fun that to build your own projects, on your own time, see it work and feel the independence.

Life for most urban people these days is to wake up, sit in a car to work, where you sit even more, then you talk with other people in a superficial way, talk about sports, fashion, your kids, where you're going in the vacation, the latest happenings of the kardashians etc. There are few people who go deep in their conversations. And if you are a critical thinker, thinks outside the box, and is critical of the current system, there's not many to talk to. Once you start talking about the banking system, geopolitics etc, most people just morphs into a huge question mark.

And such most drones or slaves waste their lifes, without most of them even knowing it. That is to be said, they might not even realize themselves that they're wasting their life, but in my eyes they do.

I feel bad about all the material things I and my family posess, we use too much resources, and there's too much waste. We eat too much food that's preprocessed, although we try our best to stay healthy.. I feel bad opening a bottle of milk in the fridge. Knowing that I support a capitalistic system where the farmer which is the one that produced the value is the one getting the shaft. At the same time, I feel bad when I throw all this garbage, all the plastic containers, all the waste. Is that life, is it sustainable?

At the same time it makes me very sad to see all the profit greed and corruption in society. How much money you have, and your connections is more important than being a critical thinker. So your position in society is more important than logic, facts and science. Politicians decide over the common man, what he can and cannot do, and it seems like the concern of most politicians is the next election and to bow to their corporate sponsors. This goes down to the smallest municipalities. And if you speak up against it, you get hammered down like you're some dumbwit.

So there's a few choices:

- You become a part of the system and try to amass power and influence, that's not really an option unless you're a power hungry person that enjoys the spotlight.
- You accept status quo and becomes another slave, yet different than the others as you're aware you're a slave. Slavery in the sense that you need to work for decades to pay off your mortgage. And to keep your job, you cannot speak critically of the status quo. This enslaves the majority of the population, and most people are afraid to speak up because they rather want to protect their lifestyle and their family.
- You do your best to declutter your life, simplify it, and fill it with what is valuable for you.

Walking around saying and doing everything that' "expected by you", and watching all the people who are under the thumb of governments, corporations, banks and the massmedia makes me cringe.

The crave for independence is something that's in every man's soul. I do think that the western civilization while it has many good aspects also has many negative aspects. For example, when I go out in public, I'm every time judged by my looks, my clothes, my car and the people that accompany me. If I dress up nicely, drive a nice car and are with people also looking good, I'm usually getting VIP treatment. If I come alone, with a beard, no car, and some old clothes, more often than not I'm totally ignored and treated as a sub human. I guess we're all judging others on some level or another. But in reality we can't know much about another human being before getting to know that human being.

It annoys me to great length to see that most people are only concerned with themselves and does not speak up about wrongdoings in their local community or country. I hesitate myself to do so, as you need lots or resources to protect yourself if you get enemies.

So my conclusion has become that the best solution is to opt out, to spend life learning, thinkering, investigating, ie. being of the hacker mindset, to emphasize other qualities than materialism and superficial values. To me having a nice car and a nice house does not make me tingly. I have no need to impress others, and feel sorry for those that feel the need to do so.

In most countries there's a division of classes. If you're in a lower class, no matter how smart you are, those of a higher class will not listen to you. To me, fullfillment in life is to be at peace with yourself, to be content with who and where you are and to have a sense of well being and if you need to surround yourself with people, surround yourself with people that you're on the same page with.

I see society at large as a broken machine. Of course I could try to change it, but most likely such an attempt would be futile, and I would live a very unbalanced life dealing with all the power, corruption, attacks and outright lunacy that surrounds us. It's easy to see what kind of toll this places on individuals that genuinely try, even those having 100% health and that are very intelligent, often comes to their witts end.

So it might be very egoistical, but I figured as long as I only live a human life, and it's not long, why not make the best out of it? Go somewhere, live modestly and expand my own mind and thinker with technology to the best of my abilities, preferably going off grid and being self sustained. It would be interesting to see if those who has done this actually became happier persons.


To make an alternative settlement (I am sure there's some already), the people involved would need to be genuine and to be trusted, and to be on the "same plate". There would always be disagreements, but mature people would be able to sort such disagreements out before it escalated, esp. if the core value base is pretty equal among the participants.

Also by decluttering my life, I mean a whole range of things. For example, if I receive a parking ticket although I did nothing wrong, that's a great annoyance and clutter. Of course if I were very rich I would not care either way.. But I do not have a genuine desire to become very rich. Happiness is more important. Likewise, people who care about small things who does not really matter is extremely annoying, for instance if you left a pair of socks on the floor after exercise, and somebody attacks you harshly for being so sloppy. I don't need that.

Feedback and criticism is ok. However, constants attack and bullying only makes your life miserable. And I never liked people that have power over me that uses it just because they can, even if it's against the rules. Even if you use logic argumentation, many times it fell on a cement floor. So I figure it's better to avoid all that hassle entirely.

Mostly it is about life and giving it meaning. I do not find much meaning in our modern society where you are mostly judged by appearance and your actions. To "win" in society it's not about acting god, or to be altrustic, but it's about manipulating others to have your way. And to "win" means to have lots of status symbols, money and power. For what reason and to what end?

It is often said that "simple minds are happier". And sometimes I wish I was just a simpleton that went to watch soccer games, play xbox and hang out with the family. But for me, there's always something wrong, something that's not just right. I look around me, and I do not like what I see at all. I'm glad I've found bitcoin, as it has opened my mind to a lot of things, and made me learn more about society, politics and finance, perhaps I even learned too much. For sure I did not become a happier man of learning all of this.

I think if the contact surface with the society at large is reduced, and I focus on the close things, I will be happier. I have read studies that people who are working the land feels happier and also that happiness is larger in small knit communities. I might seem elitist, and perhaps I am, although I'm more than aware of my own shortcomings, I feel that most of the time I'm surrounded by people who do not share my vision and outlook on life. I want to talk about all kinds of scientific things, like renewable energy, which I find highly interesting, politics, money systems, philosophy, psychology, body-language, exercise, nutrition, history, architecture, space. In short, I'm a curious mind, that rather wants to watch a documentary than to watch a soap opera. And I do question authority. Most people seem to be just accepting what idiocy is put upon them. Just because some person has a high ranking title does not mean that this person is a God and everything he says or do is right.

I am annoyed about the high penetration or religion even in most modern countries. I do not think religion contributes much to a better world in terms of scientific advances, but it rather holds people under its thumb. Admittedly it is better in some countries, and far worse in others. Even in the most sophisticated countries there's staggering bureaucracy, inefficiency and unjustice.

I do not want to live in a society where you at any time can be stopped and harassed by police, even for having done absolutely nothing wrong at all. The fascist, totalitarian direction many countries are going towards, that calls themselves democratic, is just horrible.

I want to live in a society where there's mutual respect, understanding and where logic and rational thought is held in high regard, where decisions are made on cold facts, and not raw emotions. Where things are efficient and there's little red tape.

In short, I am a misfit in our society. And as such, I've come to the conclusion that the best option is to remove my contact surface with it as much as possible. Understand me correctly, I love good discussions, and I love being with great people, but it's the overall picture that makes me cringe. I enjoy rather walking in the woods with a dog, looking at a tree than walking in an asphalt streets and looking at everybody else and they looking at me.

As a man I do not need a house that costs millions to buy and takes decade to pay down. All I need is space for making food, a bed and some company, a dog.

As for those that talked about guns, ammo and guard-dog and brought it up in a negative light.. If you live remotely, perhaps even a place where there might be bears and wolfes (If you chose to live in Alaska or Siberia), or you get visited by looters in a remote dessert spot, there's no police to rescue you, so the choice might be between killing or getting killed. I know what I would chose.

And all in all I think the modern life is too stressful, so it would be good to escape from it. Since the human life span is short, would it not be smart to attempt to optimize the quality of it? Since I have already escaped from the indoctrination that is public school and come to the realization of the status quo, why should I not do something about it, why should I do what everybody "expects" me to do?

Since I cannot change society, and have no wish to attempt, the only thing I can change is myself and to do so, I need first to change my environment.

Of course, this is not a position of being a victim, as I have much resources compared to most people in the entire world. But it's just that having an ordinary job that does not make me enthusiastic makes me feel more dead than alive, and when I look around me, most people in reality look more dead than alive.

Would it not be nice to have the world crumble in unrest around you, while you sit in a secure mountain spot, self sufficient, not dependent on anyone? Of course planning and incremental steps are of paramount importance.

Appreciate all thoughts, as I think these matters are of grave importance.

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April 10, 2015, 04:34:20 PM
 #13

Some interesting responses here, esp. from WhatTheGox that nailed it on the head literally.

I've got that. A house in some kind of a desert.

No electricity, no water, no mobile phone connection and no Internet. I'm going there from time to time, staying till the supplies I've brought last. I've never been there more than 3 days. It would take a huge budget to give the place the comfort of a modern home. Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

You have to look at US' history. There were big settlements where the land was fertile, and water plentiful, but very few in the desert.

Nice that you have such a place. Historically settlements are done close to water, as water was the roads in old days. You used boats for transport and shipping. Also fertile grounds were possible because of abundance of water.

....

I consider myself a realist not a can or can't do camp.   I just see things with lots of obisticals not as good as choice.

I think you going somewhere near water just makes much more sense then trying middle if dessert.  You can for not a ton of money get wells dug, and have lots of water.  No pulling it out of air, etc..   Also having land you could plant gardens, big fields, have animals.   The land is a huge plus compared to land that is barren and cant do anything easy.
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April 10, 2015, 04:43:31 PM
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I agree with you on most of your arguments, however extracting water from air is feasible and there exist commercial solutions for this today.

In terms of level of difficulty the dessert option would rank high up there. I've seen it be done before, and I am convinced it can be done however. Some people would also like a dessert climate.

Some interesting responses here, esp. from WhatTheGox that nailed it on the head literally.

I've got that. A house in some kind of a desert.

No electricity, no water, no mobile phone connection and no Internet. I'm going there from time to time, staying till the supplies I've brought last. I've never been there more than 3 days. It would take a huge budget to give the place the comfort of a modern home. Satellite Internet doesn't come cheap, and it's very far from the speed and reliability of a cabled network. Growing food or any plant is impossible on the land.

You have to look at US' history. There were big settlements where the land was fertile, and water plentiful, but very few in the desert.

Nice that you have such a place. Historically settlements are done close to water, as water was the roads in old days. You used boats for transport and shipping. Also fertile grounds were possible because of abundance of water.

....

I consider myself a realist not a can or can't do camp.   I just see things with lots of obisticals not as good as choice.

I think you going somewhere near water just makes much more sense then trying middle if dessert.  You can for not a ton of money get wells dug, and have lots of water.  No pulling it out of air, etc..   Also having land you could plant gardens, big fields, have animals.   The land is a huge plus compared to land that is barren and cant do anything easy.
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April 10, 2015, 09:27:53 PM
 #15

I agree with you on most of your arguments, however extracting water from air is feasible and there exist commercial solutions for this today.

In terms of level of difficulty the dessert option would rank high up there. I've seen it be done before, and I am convinced it can be done however. Some people would also like a dessert climate.

Why would you want the dessert climate?  It just seems like it is going  to be harder for no reason.  And in the end cost a lot more money.

I am decently informed on some of the topics.  I live on a family farm.  Even if you turn desert into fertile dirt not all crops will grow in that environment. You better off with easy regular farm land and you can store crops so you could have them year around.

Also being able to dig wells easy and multiple  if needed is huge.  You can get huge amounts of water from ground water compared to searching and searching in desert.
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April 10, 2015, 09:55:26 PM
 #16

You don't want to exit the system. The patriots are wrong. You want to use the system. Do it the Karl Lentz way and take the system down. It may not be easy, but people are doing it all the time a little. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D

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April 10, 2015, 10:04:29 PM
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And then your little house gets destroyed by a massive storm, knocking out your power forever unless you're an electrician and know your shit. Then, you would need access to get more food and such. Basically what I'm saying is that you have to be rich. You need stuff airdropped to your little island.

Once you have enough money to exit the system, I doubt you will.
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April 10, 2015, 10:22:29 PM
 #18

...You want to use the system... take the system down. It may not be easy, but people are doing it all the time...
Do this.
Doing what you suggest lets "them" win.



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April 10, 2015, 11:47:21 PM
 #19

And then your little house gets destroyed by a massive storm, knocking out your power forever unless you're an electrician and know your shit. Then, you would need access to get more food and such. Basically what I'm saying is that you have to be rich. You need stuff airdropped to your little island.

Once you have enough money to exit the system, I doubt you will.

Ummm I have a tornado room that can handle pretty much any midwest storm.   So I'm not worried there.   

And having propane powering some things, and generator's I can turn on I am not to worried about small electrical outages.

I still say go with fertile land over a dessert.
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April 11, 2015, 01:52:23 AM
 #20

And then your little house gets destroyed by a massive storm, knocking out your power forever unless you're an electrician and know your shit. Then, you would need access to get more food and such. Basically what I'm saying is that you have to be rich. You need stuff airdropped to your little island.

Once you have enough money to exit the system, I doubt you will.

Ummm I have a tornado room that can handle pretty much any midwest storm.   So I'm not worried there.   

And having propane powering some things, and generator's I can turn on I am not to worried about small electrical outages.

I still say go with fertile land over a dessert.

When op says moving to a remote island, storms meaning it could destroy your entire home and flood you.

Also, good luck building that tornado room as well.
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