Bitcoin Forum

I have a fairly small amount of cryptocurrency, but it is a large percentage of my total assets. I had put all of my encrypted wallets on disks and drives and put them in a safe deposit box. The last time I went to the box it was clear before I even finished opening the interior box that someone had been in it.

I never got any notice from the bank nor anyone else that some search had been conducted. I do have a minor history of saying the same things to police that they have said to me. This has resulted in a ridiculous amount of stalking behavior by police, but this with the safe deposit box is more serious.

One hard drive worth more than $100 was broken. I now have to go through the process of cleaning out the wallets and sending the balances to new ones. This will cost a lot of time and effort.

Do I have any recourse? I am in the United States and understand that provisions of new security laws allow such things, but this seems quite ridiculous. I cannot afford a lawyer. Is there any reasonable option?

Um... don't they have to get a warrant for that sort of stuff and doesn't it have to be served to you? Have you contacted the safe deposit company maybe they've got some unruly employees who are going rogue or maybe they can give you some answers as to what happened. If something is broken then you definitely should be entitled to some compensation or answers from someone.

Someone might of just claimed to be you.  The security at banks is .. no existant for saftey deposit boxes they don't give a damn.

Actually, tech has reached a point where individuals can wield more power than organized militaries, so there is no reason to submit even to a benevolent despot. My post was meant more as a courtesy, a warning.


Several years ago, if you googled "secret sections of the patriot act" you would find a wealth of information. Today nothing. Unfortunately, in the United States now there are secret courts dealing with supposed security issues that are authorized to do all manner of things.


There are only two keys issued and I have both. There are no co authorized parties on the box. My signature could not be easily forged in this case, for reasons, and a person is required to sign in to open a safe deposit box. A record is supposed to be kept of all access times.  Security is actually adequate on the bank side but they have little choice but to submit when clowns with badges threaten them.

I am engaged in no illegal activities and have nothing illegal and the people involved know that. The harassment is because, as I mentioned earlier, I have said to them the same kinds of things they have said to me, i. e., threats. The difference is they attacked me after they threatened me. There is no question that this was not done by any individual in a bank. It was done by incompetent arrogant predators with badges.

I dunno they have never really checked my signature.  If someone got my key they could easily take anything in my box.  HOWEVER they would need the key if you have both.. hum..

I have my BTC stored on CD's all around.

The only thing that sucks with that is.. I have to keep a revision number LMAO so I know if a CD doesn't have a wallet I created.

Not sure what to do without any $ the "first" world nations are really only good for people with a lot of $ else they are pretty meh.

Sounds like 'you' play the same game as 'them', but maybe with fairer ethics. Still, it's not for me. As far as I'm concerned there is natural law, and then there are pretenders, like government wonkmeisters. My money is on the right horse.

“[N]atural law” (Safeless) is a synonym for hysterical (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria#mwEntryData) ochlocracy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ochlocracy#mwEntryData) (i.e., ochlocracy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barbarism#mwEntryData)).

Nope... Not anymore. Anything left with the bank is considered their property until you retrieve it. The bank can give access to the box at any time to any one claiming to be a "law enforcement" agent or a federal agent. Normally they don't even need to provide identification that they are an agent. The bank nor the agent do not need your express permission to open it.

Rule of Story: DON'T USE DEPOSIT BOXES.


Same is true for storage lockers.

Wow I never realized that deposit boxes were that insecure and open to abuse. Guess you gotta find another more secure place to store stuff. Perhaps encrypted on the cloud somewhere.

Natural law adapts to its subjects.

A fly can be eaten by a lizard and later the flies descendants will return the favor.

In practical terms though I just mean that the gangster scum who hide in government mobs and terrorize the vulnerable are at the end of their usefulness to nature. A puff of wind and they dissolve. They are losing their power.

Of course cops who raid safety boxes have to provide some identification to prove they are part of the right gang. The only thing that has changed in recent years is that now the bank officers can be obliged to keep the violation secret. The mafia has taken over.

As to the cloud, sure that's an option if you have a good encryption program.

The security of safe deposit boxes is a lot more than non existent; banks stake their reputations on providing that security.

You generally need to prove who you are (ie that you are authorized to even enter the room with the deposit boxes) and have a key to gain entrance to your box; if you lose the key, the bank doesn't just have another to provide you - they need to drill out the lock. They're pretty rigid on that. If you're not the box holder, then you better be the named executor or trustee of the person whose box it was.

For that reason I disbelieve that authorities would be interested in OPs small amount of Bitcoin, and if they were, it would be readily apparent that they'ed been there, as your lock would either be drilled out or yourbkey wouldn't work.

The part about drilling out the lock is recited every time a person rents a safe deposit box but it is silly. Safe deposit locks are far simpler than auto ignition locks and can be picked in a few seconds by an amateur. The security is in the fact that amateurs do not have easy access to the vault.

There is no doubt that some one was in the safe deposit box between the time I closed it and the next time I accessed it. There is no doubt. I'm emphasizing that. There is no doubt.

One hard drive that was stored there worked fine when I put it there. When I retrieved it, it no longer worked. It is possibly a coincidence. Maybe it broke from some other cause. But it is unlikely.

Of course law enforcers making 100k plus per year do not steal small amounts of altcoin to supplement their income. No argument there.

But in the United States, harassing and intimidating people who don't show respect for 'law enforcers' is the norm now. At every level, but most notably at the federal level, that has become the signature of 'law enforcement'.

I don't understand exactly your point. A lizard eats a fly. When the lizard dies a lot of flies eat it.

Nature is fair ultimately.

If you are referring to levels of awareness, saying that predation is a lower act than some other, then yes you are right. But a person can use their own values to decide which predations will survive. It is my belief, and my actions reflect this, that natural predation among animals evolves and is justified ultimately.

The predation of artificial laws though serves only as a boundary that has to be watched. Meaning if someone wants to create artificial laws and use force to oblige others to respect them, those laws and their enforcers must be held to a reasonable standard.

'Law enforcement' is not a natural occupation. You have to contort to find an archetypal law enforcer. It is something that did not exist in humanity's past and will not exist in humanity's future. Gangs have always existed though.

Law is an element of culture—a set of adaptations.

You are not distinguishing between natural and artificial law.

Artificial, political law in an element of artifice, culture. It expires.

Natural law is an element of nature. It grows.

As others have said I don't know about the specific laws for your country but in most countries banks own anything you deposit there, I realise this is a piss take for you, you could maybe talk to someone outside like a lawyer if too much time hasn't passed but I would just take it as a lesson on how badly banks will screw you over and invest in a tiny safe of some kind for yourself you can keep at home. You don't even really have to get anything massive and you'll have full control over it.

You don't own anything when you deposit money or any other items in a bank, they take full control, the worst part about depositing currency in a bank is they can play with it however they like on the stock market so if they suddenly start losing lots of money then you're going down as well and you won't be able to get it back.

Homo sapiens sapiens culture is begotten of an organic consciousness; however, for the phenomenology of consciousness, it is termed “artificial.”

Political laws, artificial laws, are created by individuals, and do not really reflect a broader culture.

If I have enough guns or money I can make a law that says grapes have to be eaten 3 times a day.

When individuals make 'laws', the underlying motive, almost always hidden, is to copy nature. It fails. Certainly everything reflects something and a person chooses which reflections to respect.

The problem here is that the Crumley quote states the human brain is "not ordered hierarchically". This dogma doesn't fetch. It's like the chicken/egg or fate/free will argument. You can't just 'win' such arguments by saying "therefore I win".

Some aspects of the brain, of thought etc are hierarchical, some are not.

It would be reasonable to just put the last quote about 'summary offenses' in plain language rather than compounding the unarguable offence of 'sowing confusion'.

Heterarchy might be an interesting way to relate some things but as a quality it is completely subservient to paradigms.

So you can force the concept of heterarchy to be meaningful, or you can force it to be meaningless.

It might be ,revolutionary' for a moment but it's not a touchstone.

Attributes of the physical exist without their conscious observation. (E.g., the detectors of the Large Hadron Collider collapse the probability waves of fundamental particles.)