Bitcoin Forum

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

Same is happening at Politics & Society, For ex:

CNN national poll: Rand Paul 13%, Bush 13%, Ryan 12%, Huckabee 10%, Christie 9% (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=598287.0)
ISIS destroys Syrian Church on Easter Sunday (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1013724.0)
Why do islam hates people? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=888757.0)
Miracles of Bible... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016679.0)
Etc..

These are some of the examples, people are hyper actively discussing about their views on Religion, Culture, Global-affairs and other such stuff, which as I said is not spam as that place is there for such discussions but I think some people are deliberately dragging these discussions just so they can increase their post count. Which I believe they wouldn't normally do if they weren't getting paid for it.

So my request is, simply exclude "Meta" and "Politics & Society" from the Pay-Per-Post board as Off-topic board is. And if the members still feel like discussing about World-affairs and/or the Forum they can do that without getting paid.

---------
ndnhc has already excluded "Beginners & Help" & "Politics & Society" to help bring down the spam and insubstantial posts. But I think Meta should be excluded too, as it isn't a place where companies would like to advertise.


Hoping that others Sig-managers see this and include this rule in their campaign from next week/month.
________
Kindly also exclude "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615953.0)" as requested by thread owner, see below.

Excluding posts in those subsections are a good idea if you ask me. I've noticed a lot of unnecessary (but not off-topic or spam) posts in Meta and it's getting worse.
 
I would like to add my thread "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615953.0)" to this appeal as well. I've already reduced the amount of unnecessary posts a lot by contacting the people organizing signature campaigns, but in case they haven't added it yet, I would like to hereby appeal them to do so. Hope you don't mind twister.

I don't mind at all. I feel the same and think the amount of discussions on signature campaigns in that thread might get reduced when the participants realize that they are not getting paid to post in that thread.

The amount of posts decreased immensly when I contacted the campaign owners, so I know it helps. As a side effect, less people report changes to me, but I'm willing to put more time into the thread if that's the price for less unnecessary posts.

Or how about actually cracking down on spammers instead? If people are making spammy posts do the logical thing and kick them off. Soon half of the board will be excluded from posts but once you do exclude certain boards what do you think will happen? The spammers will then just move on to other boards where they can rack up their post count likely feeling forced or encouraged to posts in subs or threads they have little interest or knowledge to offer anything meaningful. I probably make half my posts in Meta as do many others like shorena and quickseller. Should our posts be discounted because some other people take this piss? No. Just discounting certain boards is largely just laziness on the part of the campaign managers. Fair enough if you want to target certain areas related to your business but if you can't check your participants posts adequately and choose to just eliminate boards because of spam then either find someone who can or significantly reduce the number of people on your campaign.

This thread is also more suited to Service Discussion.

Not talking about you, quickseller or shorena. There are some people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge and they can be excluded from this rule. But if you see some threads on Meta, you'll see that some people are not exactly spamming but they're also not adding anything new. They just rephrase the same answer by adding a few sentences here and there smartly which makes it look like that they're telling something new but in reality that's not true.

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

Anyways, this is just a suggestion, what rule they follow is up-to the campaign manager's discretion. But my intention was not to target you or any one else, just simply trying to think of ways to bring down spam on this forum as I feel that it is the no.1 concern right now.

I know, but with your suggestion none of our posts would count so why let a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else? Campaign managers need to check their participants posts better and crack down on them instead rather than just discounting everyone's posts in entire subsections.


I don't think it has but once you discount it then a month later you'll be saying Bitcoin Discussion has become like Off-topic or whatever. People just seem to be getting annoyed by the fact that some people are making a lot of posts in there which will happen if you get into an argument or discussion. If people are engaging in heated political discussions and contributing their opinions on a subject (whether you agree with them or not) that doesn't mean they should be discounted or are spamming (unless they're making half-assed posts).


I know but it's not really a solution to the greater problem, it will just move the issue somewhere else. I'm sure you can agree it's not certain boards that are the problem but the actual shitposters who post in them. Deal with them instead rather than saying I can't get paid for posts in x subforum because of other people making low-quality posts.

I agree that Meta and Politics & Society section should be excluded but I don't agree that Meta section is only for Mods to reply. Isn't this section open for all users to suggest or complain about this forum? All the questions might be for the Mods to answer but even forum members can give their opinion about the system and if they agree or disagree. I only don't prefer users replying on threads which read as  "Why was I banned?" And members behaving as self appointed Mods. These members don't even know who banned the user. Also, Scam Accusation section should be excluded in that case where it's a dispute between the buyer and seller.



This thread is about Signatures and shouldn't be in this Meta section.

I am upset about the discussion and accusations in those mentioned threads. The members are mostly non-sig ad members who accuse other religions and drag the matter while sig ad members keep entertaining their accusations and leading to a never ending argument. They have already dragged that ISIS case to over 15 pages with their arguments.


If you mean to say that I am upset with this thread, then sorry as you are wrong. I am not upset if all the sections of bitcointalk forum are excluded or even if the ad campaigns are stopped as I wasn't a member of these campaigns before Feb. In fact, yesterday I was only having a discussion on this topic with a Mod. I will be as happy as I was before but I don't want my freedom to be hampered by these campaigns. I want to post without any restrictions and if it means that I need to leave a campaign, I won't hesitate from doing that.

But that's what I mean. I don't think (some of them) will get so actively involved in heated political discussions if they knew that they're not getting paid for it.


I didn't say that it's only for the Mods to reply but I still feel some questions are targeted at mods and maybe they should only reply. For ex. "Why was I banned?" Now a Mod/Admin can simply know the reason behind it and therefore it should be left for the Mod/Admin to answer it, rather than posting "Maybe" replies. Ex. "Maybe your posts weren't good enough, you shouldn't spam!". I don't think it's solving anything as the questioner still continues to wait for the Mods/Admins for the answer.

Then there are questions which are answered in first 2-3 replies but the thread continues to grow by same answers only phrased differently.

Mods can move this thread if they think this is the UN-appropriate board for it. In-fact I am thinking maybe I should close this thread as I seem to be pissing people off and I don't want to do that.

Again, then if that's true those people will move somewhere else and spam there instead and that's why this isn't a solution.


Most of the time mods wont know info about bans either. We can't see people that are banned unless they've been explicitly mentioned by a global or admin who can. Users can normally make an educated guess why a person might have been banned if the person provides their account name though (sig/ref spam etc).



So you get opinions that you don't like and that means people are 'pissed off'. I think this is what's wrong with people complaining that Politics section should not be counted because people have differing opinions and argue them, yet some people cannot handle opposing viewpoints or when they argue them they suddenly become spammers. There's not much point opening a thread for discussion if you're going to close it as soon as people offer a different view or opinion.

If they really are passionate about discussing politics than it shouldn't matter to them if they're being paid or not. I am not saying block them from posting there.

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

If they move to other sections, they can, I am not saying to stop anyone from posting anywhere but if you see some people deliberately abusing sig-campaigns by making a hell of posts in that section, it's not hard to understand that they're simply doing so to increase their post counts. Because the thing about politics is that one can keep arguing non-stop and if you don't like this now, wait until that section goes out of hand.

As anyone participating in sig-campaign will simply go to that section and start arguing for no-reason but to simply increase their post counts.

I was only thinking about closing this thread because I think this suggestion won't be liked by the posters who post obsessively in that section and might piss them off, if this rule gets applied to the campaign they're participating in.

And if that is allowed, then why not allow Off-Topic too?

Because how is this Question :  

Off-topic/Scientific proof that God exists?

any different from:

Politics & Society/Why do islam hates people?

In both the threads people are arguing over their viewpoints, if one is allowed to be paid than the other one should be too?

Which is why I say Politics & Society should also be considered off-topic and removed from sig campaigns paid boards.

Irony?

This OP is a hipster making money off the post.


http://www.mediamum.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/hipster-waiting-for-moment-of-irony-cartoon.jpg

You could say that about any section or user. Are you not passionate about bitcoin or this forum? If you are than maybe you should remove your signature if you feel getting paid to post is such an issue. For the rest of us maybe we can continue to get paid a little for something we would do anyway. Certain sections are not the problem and neither are those who jost a lot of constructive posts. It's the users who post lots of rubbish regardless of section.


So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.


Who said they are 'deliberately abusing' the campaigns in there? This is your opinion. At the moment your reasoning is people are making lots of posts in there therefore spam, which just isn't the case. So why is Politics such a big deal and is not ok but others are? You can argue your points over and over in any section. Are we abusing Meta now? No. We're engaging in a discussion and that's what happens in Politics.


No, they're not arguing for no reason, they're arguing their points. You're just seeing lots of discussion and blaming it on signatures but if that was true (which I don't believe it is) then your solution would do nothing but move those people on to different sections to do their 'arguing'.

This is where hilariousandco has a point. Spammers should be cracked down on a individual basis. Someone could even hold a list of people who got booted in a thread so that other signature campaigns reject them. Why punish everyone else by excluding those sections if a few people are abusing it? Although it is already happening, soon DA DICE and Bit-x will both exclude some sections.
You know how one can easily identify a spammer? They did not participate in such discussions in the past and now they're posting a lot of posts in the same thread. If one were to study behavioral changes (posting habits; not that hard) on a per member basis they could easily be identified.

A group of people are the sole reason for my departure from Bit-x after this term ends. They're everywhere and writing nonsense most of the time.

Just left the dadice campaign as they've stop counting post on politics & beginners (where I mostly post). I respect their decision though, there are a lot of rehashed comments saying the same thing over and over again on the beginners board.

How many 'How to earn bitcoin' threads do we really need? ;)

This has pretty much been addressed by hilarious already but this is what I wrote on the thread regarding the same proposal in the newbie section.

Excluding certain sections is not going to do anything to stop spam and shit posts, it is only going to move them elsewhere. We will see more threads with people asking stupid questions and then people getting stupid answers. The solution is to better screen participants and once they are in to deal with shit posts by warning and potentially remove people who are morons.

Both sections also need more active moderators to keep the sections clean.

I agree with cracking down on the spammers, and not the sections. I have noticed that meta is very active lately and also a lot of "kicking the tires" in many sales threads. We should make a rule against people who always post the same crap with no intention of buying. "do you accept escrow" "can you upload a picture" - They do not want the item just some free posts for pay. I guess I should start reporting this sort of stuff rather than just complaining too  :-\

Edit:

Or even better...maybe we should make a public spammer/shame thread where people post names and links of obvious sig spammers?

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:


I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.

Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

Wait a minute. That isn't relevant to this problem. If you feel like there should be more sections or some restructuring effort then you might as well suggest it in meta.
One could argue that there aren't enough threads that would fall into that subforum. That's probably why we don't have one. Besides, this is supposed to be a forum about Bitcoin. We should be glad that we already have the sections that we have. Technically they should all fall into off-topic. Anyhow that's a different issue.

The issue are the spammers. Luckily ndnhc and marco are willing to cooperate. What about the other campaigns? I'm not sure how many people are in them but I'm sure that it would still make a difference.

Yeah, why not? I don't post shit in spam threads in off-topic as do many others. Off-topic or any other sub forums are not the problem, poor quality posters are. If someone wants to write a 400 word essay on why Miley Cyrus is a whore or not why not let them get paid for that? However, if someone wants to just write 'yes she's a whore' then those people are the problem.

Well I think it is relevant to the problem because I feel that Politics & Society does falls into Off-topic and the discussions taking place in that board shouldn't be counted towards paid post.

So if talking about politics is counted for, why not Entertainment & Arts? I am sure there are Movie/Music/Arts/Games lovers on this forum who have to make their discussions in the Off-topic board. They would love to get paid for them if there was another board for it.

If that's too much than Politics & Society should be considered as Off-topic also and posts/discussions made there shouldn't be counted.

Well that was just an ex. but many posts can be made on other topics which are not politics & society but are about movies, games, music, arts , food and there can be some people who have good knowledge/interest in those and they can discuss about them in long sentences.

So either we call politics & society also an off-topic or we give others another board to discuss all the above and they can discuss about them and get paid for it?

Great SIG now Shogdite... must say not many people Chomsky / Democracy Now it in these forums.

Its a shame because politics & society kicks arse!, probably my favourite forum on here with gambling. 

...in your opinion, which has been stated numerous times is not a solution to the problem at all.



Because there's likely no need or not enough demand for Entertainments & Arts so they're fine in Off-topic. Why are you so obsessed with getting subs labeled a certain way so they suddenly become worthy of payment or not? Simply calling a sub 'off topic' or creating another one doesn't mean Campaign Managers wont decide to pay for posts in there or not, and besides not all campaigns bar posts in off-topic. If someone was concerned about that they would just join a campaign that doesn't anyway.

Not obsessed man, simply posting my opinion.

How is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? Maybe you like Politics, other might like movies.

So the person talking about politics is right and is not making insubstantial posts and the person talking about movies is?

I agree with the Quickseller's idea, the signature campaign maintainers should accept only the valid users (check them with the last posts). We should remember also another thing, what is the problem : the post or the sig ad?

I don't think you understand what the "off-topic" section is for. It is for any discussion/topic that may be of interest to bitcoineers that do not fit elsewhere in the forum. If there is a thread anywhere in the forum and a post is not specifically discussing the OP in some way then that post is off topic and should be deleted.

The off-topic section is filled with shit threads like 'your favorite drink', 'how long you have been logged in', 'your favorite...'; IMO any thread (especially those in off-topic) that can easily be responded to by many people with just one sentence should be disallowed as there is not any actual conversation that takes place in these types of threads. There are however many threads in the Off-topic section that have good conversation. The off topic section needs to be seriously cleaned up.

If people are having meaningful conversation anywhere in the forum there is no valid reason to exclude posts that are being made as others will read such posts and potentially will respond. The question if an additional sub should be created is off topic.

Let me ask you this, it meaningful conversation is taking place in any part of the forum then why should posts not be paid for if a company is receiving advertising? Don't you think it would be a better solution to not pay for posts that just fill up space and are shit, regardless of where they are posted?

Are you reading what I'm writing? I've already argued against this and certain sections being paid and others not. It's you who's arguing for more subs to be barred from payment, so yes, how is one's interest considered on-topic while others off-topic? You're the one saying certain things are ok or not or right and wrong. And you're obsessed with the idea that off-topic = nobody should or does get paid for these because in your opinion they shouldn't therefore politics is also like off topic and also shouldn't be paid, but it is only certain campaigns that even deduct posts from off-topic, not a forum rule. You're clearly still looking at this from an angle of it's a universal rule that nobody gets paid for posting in off-topic when that just isn't the case, and like I've said multiple times it's not the sections but the posters that are the problem so pay for posts in off-topic or politics as long as they're relevant and constructive.

Thank you. Yes, that's exactly my point. If I love to talk about Movies/Music/Games and want to discuss something about those then why it is that it should be considered off-topic? (Because that's the only place I can discuss those)

And only people discussing about Politics & Society be considered meaningful.

If you're just going to label it as a place where people talk non-sense, then I can argue that people writing HUGE ass posts on why a religion is good or not is also non-sense and should be considered as off-topic.


No man, I did read, you're simply not getting the point.

Just tell me what is considered off-topic and what is considered as on-topic?

If I wanted to talk about Movies/Music, where would I post? In off-topic right? And no matter how meaningful the discussion there is, it will be considered as worthless.

But all the non-sense topics in Politics & Society are meaningful?

Agree, someones' helpfull post in the excluded should not be exclude just because the board is being excluded for payment. Best thing to do for the campaign manager is to check on this personally. It is not a spam if someone give an answer to a question about what is a sign message in beginners boards, it is a spam when there are more than 2 same useless answer about that


Cheers

I don't see your point. Why are you asking signature campaign managers to exclude posts made in the politics section? There is meaningful conversation there, probably more so then in many other sections.

I would repeat my solution to shit posts in the forum would be for campaign managers to do a better job of weeding out shit-posters.

this goes as well as my solution for this problem. By excluding some boards it will be like mitigating the spammers to another boards. In the end this will not stop the problem of the spam posts itself but rather move it. Best thing to do is the campaign manager need to be stricter and denied payment for everyone who did a shit posts whatsoever

I am asking that because I consider them as off-topic. Let me ask you this, where would a person who wants to discuss about Movies or Music post? in off-topic right? And that's not paid for because it is considered useless.

But people arguing whether a religion is right or not is meaningful and paid for? How can that be fair?

How can you say that a person's interests and his discussion on that matter is meaningful while others are not?

Either include both or exclude both.

It seems that it doesn't exist a real solution for the problem, because the solution is not 'ban some forum section'.  @hilariousandco, can I ask you what do you think about the signature campaigns? Ban or not?

Thanks mate. Democracy Now is by far my favourite news site, they recently started accepting bitcoin:  http://www.democracynow.org/ways_to_donate/bitcoin  :)

Huge fan of Chomsky aswell, he's an intellectual powerhouse when it comes to politics.

How about instead of banning certain sections of forum in order to prevent spamming we impose on signature campaigns limit of posts participants can get paid for?
Something like forum rule that only weekly you can get paid for xx posts only, every post above that won't be counted. Is that good option to regulate this or not?

Argue about religions is more useful than talk about what kind of music do you like, or am I wrong?




This is the problem, everyone here think that if someone is wearing a sig ad is 'padding his post count' but this is not against the rules (if your posts are substantial and constructive). We should not generalize ....

Basically the OP is saying that since Politics & Society isn't discussing bitcoins and is considered off topic, and since off topic board is excluded, the former section as well should be excluded. Others are arguing that till there is a meaningful discussion going on, the board shouldn't be excluded.

Off topic board is excluded as people usually don't have an interesting discussion there and mostly people tend to spam there by asking weird discussions while this isn't the case with Politics & Society. There are some who are making pointless posts there but they are actually having a discussion whether it's senseless to us or not. I basically don't like people abusing any religion but the fact is there people are having some kind of discussion (disregarding members who are posting off topic replies in those threads).


I believe that till a person isn't spamming, there should be no reason for the manager of a signature campaign to exclude a board. If the manager feels that his website/advertisement isn't being benefited by posts in a particular section, the manager is free to exclude a section but if people mainly spam a board (like it is the case with the off topic board), then it shouldn't be allowed and the off topic board needs to be moderated as to what topics are allowed and what aren't as then all will start making spam posts there. That board is also talking about Entertainment/Sports/Art and it's admin's wish to make a sub section on it (which I guess is not necessary as it's not about bitcoins) and if the member wants to discuss the movies there, they can as now also there is a thread on the movies you watched. Nobody is stopping them from doing so and if managers feel that if there is a serious discussion in the off topic board, I guess it might as well be included.

Maybe it will be useful for person who follows a religion, to others who doesn't it would be useless. Same thing can be said about any interests. Me I like movies but to you, the discussion may feel not worthy.

So my point is either include other off-topic posts which are meaningful too or consider the politics as off-topic too. You can't say 1 is bad and the other is good. They're both interests.

Some people hate politics but they like Entertainment but can they discuss about it and get paid? No
So it seems like certain interests are paid for while others are not. As I said, Either include both or exclude both.

In that case, you should ask the maintainer (ndnhc) of the dadice signature campaign if he can include the 'off topic' section instead to ban the other ("Meta" & "Politics & Society"). Isn't it better?

Arguing about religions pretty much will create an endless debate , this happens many time even on this forum . Each party will keep on pushing their religions towards the other using some facts about how good their religion are but some threads in politics and society is still okay imo

I may agree with you, but I think we cannot compare the off topic section with the Politics & Society or am I wrong? Or with the Meta section. He wants only that all the posts made in the off topic will count, but have you seen the threads in that section  ::)?

NO I never said that all posts in off-topic should be counted.

Don't throw words in my mouth man, as it is there is a confusion about the points I mentioned in this thread. Please don't take this elsewhere.


You're right, so maybe it should be taken on thread per thread basis. There are threads in Off-topics also which can be considered meaningful. So maybe off-topic shouldn't be banned also.

It's you who seems to be labeling it as a place to talk nonsense, but it is not labeled as that at all. It's simply a section for all threads that don't fit into one of the others, it just so happens that talking about Movies/Music/Games goes in there as do the other spam threads. Making a constructive argument whether religion is good or not isn't nonsense. Nonsense posts are nonsense whatever forum they're in.


No, I get what you're trying to say but it doesn't make any sense.  You are quite clearly not getting what I'm saying. Off topic is for any discussion that doesn't fit into the other threads but who considers it 'worthless'? You? Campaign managers? Some just choose not to pay for posts in there but that doesn't make them worthless.


You can consider them what you want but you'd be wrong because they're not off-topic threads. They're threads discussing things related to politics and society so clearly go in there.


It's not paid for who? You? I get paid for posts in off-topic. I believe Luckybit pay for posts in off topic as do many others. Your gripe seems to be with campaign owners who they decide which sections they want to pay for. If it's not fair to not get paid for those posts in a certain section then choose a different campaign if you want to get paid for posts in off topic. Simple. End of discussion or make your case to the campaign managers or move this thread to Service Discussion where it belongs.

If I may.

IMHO you should contact the campaign managers about this, first. If they ain't responding well, you can post here to get others' opinions.

When I read Quickseller's and hilariousandco's posts, I understood that excluding boards isn't a good idea. Like many suggested, managers should check posts of users before accepting their enrolment request or kick them if they are spamming.

A few things I like to know/suggested about Politics & Society:

Isn't a mod needed for this board? Is posting a "news" allowed? Recently, many people post news and a link.

@twister: Religious thread in Politics & Society is on-topic as religion can be included in "society" but such discussions most probably won't have an end.

Moved.

I consider them as off-topic and I believe they allow people to post a lot of insubstantial posts which are Unnecessary. It's ok if you don't agree with that but I'll leave it up to the campaign managers to decide which section they include and which not. :)

I will however ask Mods & Admins, to provide another board where a person can talk about his other interests and where it doesn't gets mixed with spam and troll posts.

Yes, it could do with one as could most of the other subs that are unmodded like Off-topic & Press and also Beginners because the mods aren't that active there. I think adding one or two more Globals would be a good idea as well. Posting news articles is relevant and is often what sparks discussion off. However, if all you did was just post links to news articles then that might be a different issue.


Another board for what and what would you call it? Creating another board would not make it free from spam or trolling. It's just another place it can and will happen not to mention making more work for mods. You just need to join a campaign that will pay you for off topic posts as that seems to be your main beef here.

I don't have any beef with anyone.

I think the Politics & Society section should be considered as off-topic. As it is entirely based on a person's interests.

And it's my view that it's causing people to post more than what they normally would. So I posted a suggestion of it, let's leave it for the campaign managers if they like this suggestion or not. :)

Then what is the entire purpose of this thread? You seem to be complaining that you can't get paid for posts in Off topic but people can in Politics and that it isn't fair.


Considered as off-topic by who? And can you explain why it should be considered off-topic? It makes no sense at all. It's a sub forum for posting threads related to Politics and Society. Subforums are not refused payment because they're 'based on people's interests' but which subs are paid for or not is down to each individual campaign so I have no idea what your logic is here.

The purpose of this thread is pretty clear, I find that the posts in Politics & Society are unnecessary and off-topic, it is my opinion, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, and I suggested to have them removed from paid boards because I believe that people will not post their as often as they do if they're not paid for it. If the campaign managers like this suggestion, they can implement it, if not, no problems.

I did explained it many times why I consider it as off-topic but the thing is when we made up our mind about something, we won't see the other aspect of it. I don't blame you, I do the same thing myself. So, let's just leave this thread for the campaign manager's consideration, they can choose for themselves if they like to add this rule or not. :)

They're off topic and unnecessary to what exactly? And every single post in there? Why should an entire sub forum be discounted in your opinion? What about all the unnecessary and off-topic posts in every other single sub of this forum? You just seem to take issue with the ones in Politics because you don't make any there but at the same time want to get paid for your posts in off-topic. Just join another campaign and your issue is resolved.

It does matter. This is a forum and opinions written here do matter. If you want to suggest something and don't want to see the opinions of other people write a PM.

I don't see any end to this conversation. You're just not getting my point and for some reason you're fixated on that I want to be paid for off-topic posts when I have made this thread that it is exactly not what I want.  ;D


I said it doesn't matter what difference of opinion we have on this topic as It is for the campaign manager's to decide. Please don't try to make the situation worse by adding inappropriate remarks without understanding the context of the post.

He's generalizing because of individuals which is obviously illogical. It's just HIS opinion. This doesn't make it true.
His opinion will be perceived differently by different people here. If the admins have decided that Politics & Society deserve their own subforum then so be it. It's quite possible that someone in the very early days requested it. I'm pretty sure that the purpose of that forum was for threads related to Bitcoin, but over time it has changed.

If you don't want to get paid for something that doesn't mean that others don't want that too. Actually there is no reason not to get paid. I actually think that excluding the off-topic subforum is a mistake. There are/were quite a few threads with great discussions. Obviously it would have to be capped by a percentage and reviewed.
But your solution is wrong. Excluding these sections will drive those spammers away from them into other ones, and then we end up with essentially the same situation.

Your point is nonsensical. Might as well ban all sub forums going by your logic yet you're fixated on Politics and Society for some reason because you think it's spam but won't accept that spam happens everywhere so that's the issue here not certain subsections, and that's what you're not getting.

I never said it was spam I said it was Off-topic.

But you're right. And I am wrong. I was trying to think of a solution but this isn't it and I shouldn't have made this topic and I apologize.  :-\

Well, I actually get your point quite well. ;)

Off-topic and Politics & Society have a lot in common. It is not as if off-topic has no constructive threads or posts. They certainly have few, and politic & society is very similar.
IMO, both should fall in the same category. Which is also why, they fall into the Other section. ;)

Firstly, the warning sirens posts are annoying indeed.

I dont like public shaming thread though, thats just bad style. I wonder though if it would make sense to write a PM to the campaign manager if you see a spam post. IIRC there have been plans in the past to add a "rate my posting style" link to the dadice signature. This would essentially lead to a PM for the manager, but it somehow never got implemented.
This would for one keep the work load for mods low and it would also make sense for people that are only borderline shitposting and are not full blown spammers. Confronting them directly or in public would put them in a defensive position. By addressing their manager[1] you put pressure on those running the campaign to deal with the problem. Since they are paying for the posts its only fair that they have to deal with the shit that comes with the posts.


IMHO dadice and bit-x are the big ones. The smaller ones might become a problem in the future though. Same as with the sections[2] you might just shove the problem elsewhere.


But its common for boards to have these sections. Probably to give some sort of valve.


I dont think we should make this a mod issue. This should be handled by managers and participants.


IMHO any meaningful discussion will take a long time till it finds its end. If there is a easy answer to all questions, there is no reason to discus about the topic. Theres threads are also easily avoided if you dont want to participate.


Yes, there are sometimes nice discussions informative posts about vulnerabilites. This is certainly not a question of section. I agree that the offtopic section has a fair amount of "post any bullshit daily" threads. They can be fun from time to time though and I think this is what is getting forgotten here. Posting here should be fun. Let them post what they drank this morning, but if they expect to be paid for it tell them to fuck off.



[1] yes I have this picture in mind while writing this -> http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/54371317.jpg
[2] Yay, I somehow made this post ontopic ;)

I agree that spammers should be reported and banned, that is just good board protocol.

I also like that you are asking the sponsors of these programs to not count posts on these boards.  I've long maintained that they are the logical target to help combat the spam since they are actually paying for it.  I agree that a PM is a good way to go and liable to be more effective.  The signature campaigns seem to be getting more professional and serious in their administration and a message along the lines of "why are you wasting your money paying this bozo to spam all this" might be effective.

Good luck!

I am be a bit more polite, but I currently do exactly this with ndnhc as an experiment. I will probably ask marco as well.

One thing I would add to my first post in this thread is that if enough campaigns ban enough sections then it will likely lead to the ultimate banning of paid signatures. The reason being is that it is going to push shit posts/threads into sections like technical support and technical discussion which is intended go discuss advanced topics. Additionally sections like Bitcoin discussion will see even more of shit posts and threads asking ridiculously stupid questions beyond the point that it would be possible to keep clean which would defeat the point of having a Bitcoin discussion forum in the first place.

Indeed. Although a few smaller campaigns add up. I'm not sure what is worse, a member or hero member spamming.
This is what I and hilarious have said here. This is not how you solve this problem. It is actually just mitigating or moving it. Almost all the section should get counted.
There are 2 solutions to this: a) Signature campaign managers lower their tolerance a lot; b) Moderators lower their tolerance and start banning.
Option b) would work if the managers kicked out anyone who got banned for spamming.

What does it mean for you the word 'spam'? I think if someone make/write 10-20 or 100 posts per day should not be considered spammer (if his posts are substantial and constructive). Because if someone else who is not wearing a sig ad make the same thing he will not (probable) be banned. In that case the problem is the sig ad (and not the post content itself) and the solution is only to limit the posts (counted) by the various signature campaign maintainers.

It's the change in behavior. If he was doing 10-20 posts per day before, and after joining a signature campaign he starts doing 50-100 then something is wrong.
He's posting for the wrong reasons. Even if the post is somewhat constructive/decent (I said somewhat!) I would consider that spam as he is only doing it to get more money. Wouldn't you?

Well yes I have argued that not counting certain sections is just going to move the problem (and hilariousandco has pointed out that it will result in campaigns getting free advertising). However my additional point here is that pushing the problem to other sections will result in some sections would become overwhelmed with signature related useless posts that should not have any of such posts (and will stand out because they traditionally have a small volume of posts) and other sections will be overwhelmed by so many insubstantial posts that moderators cannot sufficiently moderate.

I don't think stricter moderation is the solution because people will eventually figure out how to evade their bans and will simply come back under different accounts and continue to spam. If campaign managers are more strict about which accounts they accept into campaigns and which accounts they allow to continue to participate as this will result in people being prevented from participating in sig deals in the first place and in some situations will not get paid for their shit posts.

My arguement is that if managers push insubstantial posts into other subs then the ultimate consequence will be that paid signature deals will be disallowed all together.