Appeal to Sig-Campaign Managers to Exclude "Meta" & "Politics & Society"

[twister]

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

Same is happening at Politics & Society, For ex:

CNN national poll: Rand Paul 13%, Bush 13%, Ryan 12%, Huckabee 10%, Christie 9%
ISIS destroys Syrian Church on Easter Sunday
Why do islam hates people?
Miracles of Bible...
Etc..

These are some of the examples, people are hyper actively discussing about their views on Religion, Culture, Global-affairs and other such stuff, which as I said is not spam as that place is there for such discussions but I think some people are deliberately dragging these discussions just so they can increase their post count. Which I believe they wouldn't normally do if they weren't getting paid for it.

So my request is, simply exclude "Meta" and "Politics & Society" from the Pay-Per-Post board as Off-topic board is. And if the members still feel like discussing about World-affairs and/or the Forum they can do that without getting paid.

---------
ndnhc has already excluded "Beginners & Help" & "Politics & Society" to help bring down the spam and insubstantial posts. But I think Meta should be excluded too, as it isn't a place where companies would like to advertise.

2. Beginners & Help and Politics & Society will be excluded.
3. No spam will be tolerated.

Hoping that others Sig-managers see this and include this rule in their campaign from next week/month.
________
Kindly also exclude "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns" as requested by thread owner, see below.

[1715058801]

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[Mitchell]

Excluding posts in those subsections are a good idea if you ask me. I've noticed a lot of unnecessary (but not off-topic or spam) posts in Meta and it's getting worse.
 
I would like to add my thread "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns" to this appeal as well. I've already reduced the amount of unnecessary posts a lot by contacting the people organizing signature campaigns, but in case they haven't added it yet, I would like to hereby appeal them to do so. Hope you don't mind twister.

[twister]

Excluding posts in those subsections are a good idea if you ask me. I've noticed a lot of unnecessary (but not off-topic or spam) posts in Meta and it's getting worse.
 
I would like to add my thread "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns" to this appeal as well. I've already reduced the amount of unnecessary posts a lot by contacting the people organizing signature campaigns, but in case they haven't added it yet, I would like to hereby appeal them to do so. Hope you don't mind twister.

I don't mind at all. I feel the same and think the amount of discussions on signature campaigns in that thread might get reduced when the participants realize that they are not getting paid to post in that thread.

[Mitchell]

I don't mind at all. I feel the same and think the amount of discussions on signature campaigns in that thread might get reduced when the participants realize that they are not getting paid to post in that thread.

The amount of posts decreased immensly when I contacted the campaign owners, so I know it helps. As a side effect, less people report changes to me, but I'm willing to put more time into the thread if that's the price for less unnecessary posts.

[hilariousandco]

Or how about actually cracking down on spammers instead? If people are making spammy posts do the logical thing and kick them off. Soon half of the board will be excluded from posts but once you do exclude certain boards what do you think will happen? The spammers will then just move on to other boards where they can rack up their post count likely feeling forced or encouraged to posts in subs or threads they have little interest or knowledge to offer anything meaningful. I probably make half my posts in Meta as do many others like shorena and quickseller. Should our posts be discounted because some other people take this piss? No. Just discounting certain boards is largely just laziness on the part of the campaign managers. Fair enough if you want to target certain areas related to your business but if you can't check your participants posts adequately and choose to just eliminate boards because of spam then either find someone who can or significantly reduce the number of people on your campaign.

This thread is also more suited to Service Discussion.

[twister]

Not talking about you, quickseller or shorena. There are some people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge and they can be excluded from this rule. But if you see some threads on Meta, you'll see that some people are not exactly spamming but they're also not adding anything new. They just rephrase the same answer by adding a few sentences here and there smartly which makes it look like that they're telling something new but in reality that's not true.

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

Anyways, this is just a suggestion, what rule they follow is up-to the campaign manager's discretion. But my intention was not to target you or any one else, just simply trying to think of ways to bring down spam on this forum as I feel that it is the no.1 concern right now.

[hilariousandco]

Not talking about you, quickseller or shorena. There are some people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge and they can be excluded from this rule. But if you see some threads on Meta, you'll see that some people are not exactly spamming but they're also not adding anything new. They just rephrase the same answer by adding a few sentences here and there smartly which makes it look like that they're telling something new but in reality that's not true.

I know, but with your suggestion none of our posts would count so why let a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else? Campaign managers need to check their participants posts better and crack down on them instead rather than just discounting everyone's posts in entire subsections.

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

I don't think it has but once you discount it then a month later you'll be saying Bitcoin Discussion has become like Off-topic or whatever. People just seem to be getting annoyed by the fact that some people are making a lot of posts in there which will happen if you get into an argument or discussion. If people are engaging in heated political discussions and contributing their opinions on a subject (whether you agree with them or not) that doesn't mean they should be discounted or are spamming (unless they're making half-assed posts).

Anyways, this is just a suggestion, what rule they follow is up-to the campaign manager's discretion. But my intention was not to target you or any one else, just simply trying to think of ways to bring down spam on this forum as I feel that it is the no.1 concern right now.

I know but it's not really a solution to the greater problem, it will just move the issue somewhere else. I'm sure you can agree it's not certain boards that are the problem but the actual shitposters who post in them. Deal with them instead rather than saying I can't get paid for posts in x subforum because of other people making low-quality posts.

[erikalui]

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

I agree that Meta and Politics & Society section should be excluded but I don't agree that Meta section is only for Mods to reply. Isn't this section open for all users to suggest or complain about this forum? All the questions might be for the Mods to answer but even forum members can give their opinion about the system and if they agree or disagree. I only don't prefer users replying on threads which read as  "Why was I banned?" And members behaving as self appointed Mods. These members don't even know who banned the user. Also, Scam Accusation section should be excluded in that case where it's a dispute between the buyer and seller.

Same is happening at Politics & Society, For ex:

CNN national poll: Rand Paul 13%, Bush 13%, Ryan 12%, Huckabee 10%, Christie 9%
ISIS destroys Syrian Church on Easter Sunday
Why do islam hates people?
Miracles of Bible...
Etc..

These are some of the examples, people are hyper actively discussing about their views on Religion, Culture, Global-affairs and other such stuff, which as I said is not spam as that place is there for such discussions but I think some people are deliberately dragging these discussions just so they can increase their post count. Which I believe they wouldn't normally do if they weren't getting paid for it.

This thread is about Signatures and shouldn't be in this Meta section.

I am upset about the discussion and accusations in those mentioned threads. The members are mostly non-sig ad members who accuse other religions and drag the matter while sig ad members keep entertaining their accusations and leading to a never ending argument. They have already dragged that ISIS case to over 15 pages with their arguments.

Mods can move this thread if they think this is the UN-appropriate board for it. In-fact I am thinking maybe I should close this thread as I seem to be pissing people off and I don't want to do that.

If you mean to say that I am upset with this thread, then sorry as you are wrong. I am not upset if all the sections of bitcointalk forum are excluded or even if the ad campaigns are stopped as I wasn't a member of these campaigns before Feb. In fact, yesterday I was only having a discussion on this topic with a Mod. I will be as happy as I was before but I don't want my freedom to be hampered by these campaigns. I want to post without any restrictions and if it means that I need to leave a campaign, I won't hesitate from doing that.

[twister]

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

I don't think it has but once you discount it then a month later you'll be saying Bitcoin Discussion has become like Off-topic or whatever. People just seem to be getting annoyed by the fact that some people are making a lot of posts in there which will happen if you get into an argument or discussion. If people are engaging in heated political discussions and contributing their opinions on a subject (whether you agree with them or not) that doesn't mean they should be discounted or are spamming (unless they're making half-assed posts).

But that's what I mean. I don't think (some of them) will get so actively involved in heated political discussions if they knew that they're not getting paid for it.

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

I agree that Meta and Politics & Society section should be excluded but I don't agree that Meta section is only for Mods to reply. Isn't this section open for all users to suggest or complain about this forum? All the questions might be for the Mods to answer but even forum members can give their opinion about the system and if they agree or disagree. I only don't prefer users replying on threads which read as  "Why was I banned?" And members behaving as self appointed Mods. These members don't even know who banned the user. Also, Scam Accusation section should be excluded in that case where it's a dispute between the buyer and seller.

I didn't say that it's only for the Mods to reply but I still feel some questions are targeted at mods and maybe they should only reply. For ex. "Why was I banned?" Now a Mod/Admin can simply know the reason behind it and therefore it should be left for the Mod/Admin to answer it, rather than posting "Maybe" replies. Ex. "Maybe your posts weren't good enough, you shouldn't spam!". I don't think it's solving anything as the questioner still continues to wait for the Mods/Admins for the answer.

Then there are questions which are answered in first 2-3 replies but the thread continues to grow by same answers only phrased differently.

Mods can move this thread if they think this is the UN-appropriate board for it. In-fact I am thinking maybe I should close this thread as I seem to be pissing people off and I don't want to do that.

[hilariousandco]

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

I don't think it has but once you discount it then a month later you'll be saying Bitcoin Discussion has become like Off-topic or whatever. People just seem to be getting annoyed by the fact that some people are making a lot of posts in there which will happen if you get into an argument or discussion. If people are engaging in heated political discussions and contributing their opinions on a subject (whether you agree with them or not) that doesn't mean they should be discounted or are spamming (unless they're making half-assed posts).

But that's what I mean. I don't think (some of them) will get so actively involved in heated political discussions if they knew that they're not getting paid for it.

Again, then if that's true those people will move somewhere else and spam there instead and that's why this isn't a solution.

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

I agree that Meta and Politics & Society section should be excluded but I don't agree that Meta section is only for Mods to reply. Isn't this section open for all users to suggest or complain about this forum? All the questions might be for the Mods to answer but even forum members can give their opinion about the system and if they agree or disagree. I only don't prefer users replying on threads which read as  "Why was I banned?" And members behaving as self appointed Mods. These members don't even know who banned the user. Also, Scam Accusation section should be excluded in that case where it's a dispute between the buyer and seller.

I didn't say that it's only for the Mods to reply but I still feel some questions are targeted at mods and maybe they should only reply. For ex. "Why was I banned?" Now a Mod/Admin can simply know the reason behind it and therefore it should be left for the Mod/Admin to answer it, rather than posting "Maybe" replies. Ex. "Maybe your posts weren't good enough, you shouldn't spam!". I don't think it's solving anything as the questioner still continues to wait for the Mods/Admins for the answer.

Most of the time mods wont know info about bans either. We can't see people that are banned unless they've been explicitly mentioned by a global or admin who can. Users can normally make an educated guess why a person might have been banned if the person provides their account name though (sig/ref spam etc).

In-fact I am thinking maybe I should close this thread as I seem to be pissing people off and I don't want to do that.

So you get opinions that you don't like and that means people are 'pissed off'. I think this is what's wrong with people complaining that Politics section should not be counted because people have differing opinions and argue them, yet some people cannot handle opposing viewpoints or when they argue them they suddenly become spammers. There's not much point opening a thread for discussion if you're going to close it as soon as people offer a different view or opinion.

[twister]

And "Politics & Society" has become like an off-topic board, where again all the posts are on the subject but really not necessary.

I don't think it has but once you discount it then a month later you'll be saying Bitcoin Discussion has become like Off-topic or whatever. People just seem to be getting annoyed by the fact that some people are making a lot of posts in there which will happen if you get into an argument or discussion. If people are engaging in heated political discussions and contributing their opinions on a subject (whether you agree with them or not) that doesn't mean they should be discounted or are spamming (unless they're making half-assed posts).

But that's what I mean. I don't think (some of them) will get so actively involved in heated political discussions if they knew that they're not getting paid for it.

Again, then if that's true those people will move somewhere else and spam there instead and that's why this isn't a solution.

If they really are passionate about discussing politics than it shouldn't matter to them if they're being paid or not. I am not saying block them from posting there.

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

If they move to other sections, they can, I am not saying to stop anyone from posting anywhere but if you see some people deliberately abusing sig-campaigns by making a hell of posts in that section, it's not hard to understand that they're simply doing so to increase their post counts. Because the thing about politics is that one can keep arguing non-stop and if you don't like this now, wait until that section goes out of hand.

As anyone participating in sig-campaign will simply go to that section and start arguing for no-reason but to simply increase their post counts.

I was only thinking about closing this thread because I think this suggestion won't be liked by the posters who post obsessively in that section and might piss them off, if this rule gets applied to the campaign they're participating in.

And if that is allowed, then why not allow Off-Topic too?

Because how is this Question :  

Off-topic/Scientific proof that God exists?

any different from:

Politics & Society/Why do islam hates people?

In both the threads people are arguing over their viewpoints, if one is allowed to be paid than the other one should be too?

Which is why I say Politics & Society should also be considered off-topic and removed from sig campaigns paid boards.

[Bicknellski]

Irony?

This OP is a hipster making money off the post.

The forum is struggling with spam and most of it is because people trying to make as many posts as possible to get paid higher. While discussing about good/bad about the Forum and/or about Politics and Society is not exactly spamming but people are desperately trying to post their views on Meta on Questions that were meant for Mods or are already answered.

Same is happening at Politics & Society, For ex:

CNN national poll: Rand Paul 13%, Bush 13%, Ryan 12%, Huckabee 10%, Christie 9%
ISIS destroys Syrian Church on Easter Sunday
Why do islam hates people?
Miracles of Bible...
Etc..

These are some of the examples, people are hyper actively discussing about their views on Religion, Culture, Global-affairs and other such stuff, which as I said is not spam as that place is there for such discussions but I think some people are deliberately dragging these discussions just so they can increase their post count. Which I believe they wouldn't normally do if they weren't getting paid for it.

So my request is, simply exclude "Meta" and "Politics & Society" from the Pay-Per-Post board as Off-topic board is. And if the members still feel like discussing about World-affairs and/or the Forum they can do that without getting paid.

---------
ndnhc has already excluded "Beginners & Help" & "Politics & Society" to help bring down the spam and insubstantial posts. But I think Meta should be excluded too, as it isn't a place where companies would like to advertise.

2. Beginners & Help and Politics & Society will be excluded.
3. No spam will be tolerated.

Hoping that others Sig-managers see this and include this rule in their campaign from next week/month.
________
Kindly also exclude "Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns" as requested by thread owner, see below.

[hilariousandco]

If they really are passionate about discussing politics than it shouldn't matter to them if they're being paid or not. I am not saying block them from posting there.

You could say that about any section or user. Are you not passionate about bitcoin or this forum? If you are than maybe you should remove your signature if you feel getting paid to post is such an issue. For the rest of us maybe we can continue to get paid a little for something we would do anyway. Certain sections are not the problem and neither are those who jost a lot of constructive posts. It's the users who post lots of rubbish regardless of section.

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If they move to other sections, they can, I am not saying to stop anyone from posting anywhere but if you see some people deliberately abusing sig-campaigns by making a hell of posts in that section, it's not hard to understand that they're simply doing so to increase their post counts. Because the thing about politics is that one can keep arguing non-stop and if you don't like this now, wait until that section goes out of hand.

Who said they are 'deliberately abusing' the campaigns in there? This is your opinion. At the moment your reasoning is people are making lots of posts in there therefore spam, which just isn't the case. So why is Politics such a big deal and is not ok but others are? You can argue your points over and over in any section. Are we abusing Meta now? No. We're engaging in a discussion and that's what happens in Politics.

As anyone participating in sig-campaign will simply go to that section and start arguing for no-reason but to simply increase their post counts.

No, they're not arguing for no reason, they're arguing their points. You're just seeing lots of discussion and blaming it on signatures but if that was true (which I don't believe it is) then your solution would do nothing but move those people on to different sections to do their 'arguing'.

[Lauda]

If they really are passionate about discussing politics than it shouldn't matter to them if they're being paid or not. I am not saying block them from posting there.

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.
If they move to other sections, they can, I am not saying to stop anyone from posting anywhere but if you see some people deliberately abusing sig-campaigns by making a hell of posts in that section, it's not hard to understand that they're simply doing so to increase their post counts. Because the thing about politics is that one can keep arguing non-stop and if you don't like this now, wait until that section goes out of hand.

As anyone participating in sig-campaign will simply go to that section and start arguing for no-reason but to simply increase their post counts.
I was only thinking about closing this thread because I think this suggestion won't be liked by the posters who post obsessively in that section and might piss them off, if this rule gets applied to the campaign they're participating in.
-snip-

This is where hilariousandco has a point. Spammers should be cracked down on a individual basis. Someone could even hold a list of people who got booted in a thread so that other signature campaigns reject them. Why punish everyone else by excluding those sections if a few people are abusing it? Although it is already happening, soon DA DICE and Bit-x will both exclude some sections.
You know how one can easily identify a spammer? They did not participate in such discussions in the past and now they're posting a lot of posts in the same thread. If one were to study behavioral changes (posting habits; not that hard) on a per member basis they could easily be identified.

A group of people are the sole reason for my departure from Bit-x after this term ends. They're everywhere and writing nonsense most of the time.

[shogdite]

Just left the dadice campaign as they've stop counting post on politics & beginners (where I mostly post). I respect their decision though, there are a lot of rehashed comments saying the same thing over and over again on the beginners board.

How many 'How to earn bitcoin' threads do we really need?

[Quickseller]

This has pretty much been addressed by hilarious already but this is what I wrote on the thread regarding the same proposal in the newbie section.

For upcoming signature campaign, I think will be :

Qualifying Posts:
Must be made with the appropriate signature.
Must be constructive to the topic.
Investor-based games sub-board does not count.
Non-English posts will not count.
Posts in this thread does not count.
Posts in the off-topic board do not count.
Posts in Beginners & Help do not count. 
Posts in other signature campaigns do not count.

I think this is the wrong approach. If you are simply finding sections where a lot of people make a lot of useless posts and then exclude payment for those sections then the spammers will simply find other sections to spam in.

A better solution would be to simply do a better job of screening potential participants and to do a better job of managing participants professionally by warning and/or removing participants when they start to make a large number of insubstantial posts.

I am not sure how active MiningBuddy and tysat are at moderating however I don't think I see them posting very often. Maybe the newbie section needs another moderator?

Other sections with a lot of problems regarding insubstantial posts (the politics and the off topic sections) do not have any moderators at all, so maybe it is a lack of moderator problem.

Excluding certain sections is not going to do anything to stop spam and shit posts, it is only going to move them elsewhere. We will see more threads with people asking stupid questions and then people getting stupid answers. The solution is to better screen participants and once they are in to deal with shit posts by warning and potentially remove people who are morons.

Both sections also need more active moderators to keep the sections clean.

[Blazed]

I agree with cracking down on the spammers, and not the sections. I have noticed that meta is very active lately and also a lot of "kicking the tires" in many sales threads. We should make a rule against people who always post the same crap with no intention of buying. "do you accept escrow" "can you upload a picture" - They do not want the item just some free posts for pay. I guess I should start reporting this sort of stuff rather than just complaining too  

Edit:

Or even better...maybe we should make a public spammer/shame thread where people post names and links of obvious sig spammers?

[twister]

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:

Code:

Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers 	 	
General Football Discussion 
Water-Powered Cars & Inventors Killed
Scientific proof that God exists?

I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.

Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

[Lauda]

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:

Code:

Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers 	 	
General Football Discussion 
Water-Powered Cars & Inventors Killed
Scientific proof that God exists?

I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.
Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

Wait a minute. That isn't relevant to this problem. If you feel like there should be more sections or some restructuring effort then you might as well suggest it in meta.
One could argue that there aren't enough threads that would fall into that subforum. That's probably why we don't have one. Besides, this is supposed to be a forum about Bitcoin. We should be glad that we already have the sections that we have. Technically they should all fall into off-topic. Anyhow that's a different issue.

The issue are the spammers. Luckily ndnhc and marco are willing to cooperate. What about the other campaigns? I'm not sure how many people are in them but I'm sure that it would still make a difference.

[hilariousandco]

And I didn't say they were spamming that section but just because they can keep making arguments like we are doing right now, and keep getting paid per post, they don't stop. And they know they won't get in trouble as they're simply discussing their views.

So what's the problem? Why would they 'get in trouble' for making constructive posts? They're not sneakily getting away with something here but for some reason you think they are. Should we ban Meta now because people get into discussions here? Bitcoin Discussion too? It happens all over the forum. That is what discussion forums are about.

If you're going to allow discussions on any topics, then why not allow off-topic discussions too:

Code:

Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers 	 	
General Football Discussion 
Water-Powered Cars & Inventors Killed
Scientific proof that God exists?

I believe these are also discussions of some sort, so let's include them too? If you call these off-topics then Politics & Society fall right into that.

Or let's make another board called "Entertainment & Arts" Because some people might not be interested in Politics & Society but they'd love to discuss and get paid talking about whether "Miley Cyrus is a whore or not?"

Yeah, why not? I don't post shit in spam threads in off-topic as do many others. Off-topic or any other sub forums are not the problem, poor quality posters are. If someone wants to write a 400 word essay on why Miley Cyrus is a whore or not why not let them get paid for that? However, if someone wants to just write 'yes she's a whore' then those people are the problem.