Bitcoin Forum

My Amex card expired last year, they may have sent a new card but I don't live there anymore. I'll get around to officially turning that one off, I've had an Amex since '97. I called a few months ago and cut off my Mastercard and verified that my Bank of America card was turned off.

That left me with my bank's debit card. That expired at the end of April.

I still have my bank account, I have my house rented with direct deposit into my bank account and I turn around and pay my mortgage from there so I haven't taken that final step to close that account. Plus I figured I can just use my bank account to buy/sell bitcoins until they shut down my account like they do with so many people.

I do have a deutsche bank account card that I use to deposit cash into my account. I tend to get more through localbitcoins than I spend so I just convert the extra cash back to bitcoins so I don't have to turn people away who want to buy bitcoins with cash.


Here's the thread with links and reviews of places I use regularly that accept bitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0

Are you going to try to live off Bitcoin, or is it poor organization from you that has let you have no cards anymore?!

I don't see cards as the problem, I mean there are bitcoin debit/credit cards, I see the fiat system as the problem.  If you have a fiat bank account (pretty much a necessity) then you are still in the system.
If they do shut your account because of your bitcoin trading, what will you do then? Can you get paid in cash or bitcoin? If not then you are going to have some major difficulties!

I'm currently paid 100% in Bitcoin through bitwage.co.  I pay for as much as I can using bitcoins. I actively sell bitcoins on localbitcoins so I usually have plenty of cash for buying food and paying rent.

If they shut down my bank account I can probably have my tenants direct deposit directly to my bitwage bitcoin address and I am looking at billpayforcoins.com to see if they can handle my mortgage payment. My goal this year is definitely to go into 2016 with no bank account. I have confidence in the Bitcoin community filling the final pieces necessary to do that.

i'm using that too, is a great card, zero fee on everything(and i'm not joking), it's the only card that makes sense to have, but besides this i want to use bitcoin more, and get rid of those dusty preistoric payments methods

That sounds really cool to be honest!  It isn't something that I would do, but you are really pioneering in the field.
I mean, most people who do what you are doing are making documentaries about it, but you are just living it!

Let me know if I can help you out somehow, and good luck with it, I hope you and bitcoin are sucessful.

Elwar, I think what you are doing is bold and pioneering.  I hope you will continue to post your success and how you did it.  I have a few rentals and would be interested in how you solve that problem.

That's the main thing.
Getting away from those bloodsuckers.

They don't deserve one penny from my heard earned money, so why should I let them "handle" my money?

Someone already checked on direct deposit from their tenants, bitwage.co will convert those to bitcoins. There are no fees but I have noticed the price they use for paying me is about 1% above the price on most exchanges so that is probably where they are getting their cut. Great service though.

I admire your confidence and dedication to bitcoin but I wouldn't have the balls to go full bitcoin. I still like the comfort and security my bank accounts and cards bring but I am also a big fan of the financial freedom bitcoin brings but its not at the point where I could ditch fiat all together unfortunately.

This is great, I don't know any other person that is taking it this far. My question is, do you tax your BTC? I assume you want to avoid to do that, but let's say you eventually buy a property paying with BTC: How would you go about it? The government would find out you own a house sooner or later, and they will want to know how did you pay, and where did that money come from. You'll not have any other explanation but telling the truth, which means they'll want to know your total BTC stack and tax your ass.

Also, what do you think about using exchanges like multisigna + mixing the coins before doing so? are you still in trouble with the law that way? I want to be as anonymous as possible, no one needs to know the movements I make with my money, that is just so fucking annoying.

Although we want it there are lots of sites where you can't pay with bitcoin and only accept credit card,what will you do if you need credit card forcedly?

Elwar, that's where I am. I've cancelled my last credit card in October. I've been living with cash (most often) and BTC (rarely) since then, but I've finally decided to get another card. I travel a lot, and it hurts to see that paying for flights and hotels is difficult and often more expensive without a credit card. And it's impossible to rent a car!

I'm currently in Germany, which has a strong cash culture, with most people buying cars cash (I know, I just did), but in neighboring France, living without a credit card is really difficult, and it's worse in the US, where you can't get into a decent hotel without a credit card.

You deserve all my congratulations, but as you probably know, a few things will now be harder.

@Elwar

Wow, just read the OP.
I don't have the balls to do what you've done to be honest, I really respect what you've done.
You must really believe in the future of Bitcoin.
Very brave of you, I'm very bullish but I don't think I'm ready to take the drastic measures you have yet.
Very impressed reading your story though, best of luck, you deserve it.

This is a brave move, converting your wages directly to bitcoin. Don't tell me your life savings is entirely in bitcoin too. If you are, you need to rethink your investment plan. It's too much of a gamble. Think about your family.

Those are some bold and ballsy moves you've got there... I couldn't do it myself, at least for now. Thanks for sharing your experience and keep it up!

You're my hero!! Congratulations!!! I'd be doing the same but every time I pay off my credit card my car breaks down again!

Not having a credit card or bank account is definite freedom!

Hotels and car rentals are hard to get without a credit card. Good point there. You can book flights with bitcoin so that is a bit easier.

So who is going to do the documentary on the first person in the world, who broke away from the traditional banking system?

I think I would also go that route, if my salary was paid in Bitcoin.

Very bold move buddy.  :o ..... The mortage payment is going to be a tricky part... { Any Bitcoin based Mortage lending out there? }

Where are the Bitcoin whales, when you need them... { Pay his mortage and charge him less interest } Break the last chains to the banks.  ;)

On the long term this is what the majority of us want.

We want the freedom (the real one) to decide whether we want a bank account/credit card/debit card or not!
Nowadays, if one is to live in the "civilized" world one will need all this.
No bank account, no card, no credit...

But do we really need it?

I hope you are free now Elwar. I regard you with esteem.

I admire Elwar for having the confidence to take these steps. I couldn't do this right now. This is indeed pioneering!
After Laszlo's pizza event which gave BTC it's first kind of value, this thread can be one of the most interesting ones in the next years.And hopefully more and more people will be able to follow him. Awesome. Big respect!

As for buying another house, my next permanent home will likely be on a seastead or sailboat. I left the US and do not see returning unless they have a USSR moment.

Rental car will be difficult, most places I have traveled to in Europe I opt out of getting a rental and just get a hotel in the city and walk everywhere. I always book my hotel rooms through expedia which accepts Bitcoin so there's no problem there.

For things online that require a credit card, I used to rely on brawker.com but now I need to figure out a new way. Hopefully the Bitcoin community fills the vacuum that them leaving has created..

I have seen you how you turned your whole salary to bitcoin and receiving and buying everything in bitcoin.
You sir, are a ideal for Bitcoin Enthusiasm.

Within short your credit card issues will be resolved.

A big step in BTC-reallife adeption is around the corner;
You will soon be able to "precharge" a CC with BTC. :)

Mark my words, change is coming!

-grg

ps. my crystal-ball tells me that btc-price will drop when this goes live. ds.

Just reading this topic makes banks look old.
I feel like I'm in the future reading a post from 2009 when bitcoins were really cheap. Does anyone else feel like that?

I would love nothing more than cut all ties with my bank account.

Fortunately, Belgium is relying mostly on cashless payments & we do get wire transfer papers every month, which I could pay through Bitbill or BitWala.

The one thing holding me back is the mortgage, as there is no way to circumvent that :(

It's nice that you're trying to live off Bitcoin, but getting 100% in BTC just to sell some on LocalBitcoins seems complicated. Why don't you get a BTC debit card from Xapo or Bit-x? (you don't have to keep much money in their wallets)

You know, yes I did get that feeling now that you point it out.
And now that I'm gonna point it out, banks aren't all that "old", and how long have credit cards been around? How long has it been that governments don't let you freely use cash, put on a $10k withdrawal limit, and require you to have a bank or credit card for a lot of things?

In a way Bitcoin is the future of free commerce, on the other hand it brings us back to the coffee can buried in the back yard days when commerce used to be free. But the key is free commerce without being in the monitored and regulated big brother system.

This is a truly bold move that the vast majority of people could never hope to do. Most of us need continuous established credit for the loans we all get periodically. I myself am about to lease a new car. I prefer leasing over purchase because I roll it into a new car every year or two. In order to lease a car you need exemplary credit, a bank account with a substantial balance and some history.

Home purchase or large luxury purchase (boat, plane, vacation cabin, etc.) with cash is way outside the means of all but perhaps 1% of the population. Many people could probably save up for a few years to buy a car with cash but what if your car breaks down before you've saved enough? Well, you need a loan then.

Landlords where I live run credit reports. If you don't have established good credit you will not rent an apartment or a home anywhere. In fact, you would be lucky to rent anything available for rent without credit.

Most of us would probably be terrified to convert all of our wages to Bitcoin (or any stock or bond) because of its high volatility. If all of the products I need routinely (including petrol, electricity, natural gas, etc.) were denominated in Bitcoin I might think about it. With all things being denominated in fiat, including Bitcoin, you are gambling the value of your daily labor as surly as if you went to a casino after work every day.

You are a very brave individual living under very special circumstances. Best of luck!

I'm certainly not the first to drop my credit card. Dave Ramsey encourages people to drop their credit cards and switch to cash all the time. Plenty of people do it all the time. Getting rid of the bank will be different but I don't think impossible.

They should have made a documentary about you instead of Morgan Spurlock that shows how you survive solely on bitcoin and interview why you have come to that decision. Well what can I say, just admire your determination and your belief in bitcoin.

I don't think it's THAT much of a gamble. If you understand and believe that Bitcoin will work, it's simply trusting and using the system.

I'd do it as soon as my credit card gets paid off!

Are you from the UK?
Why do you always need loans? To buy things you can't afford?
I'm living temporarily in the UK and I see what you mean. But I live fine even without loans. It really depends on what kind of lifestyle you want.
I'm sorry man but if one has debts, loans, whatever one can't consider himself free.

Do you understand what I mean?

Loans are an unavoidable part of life, I'm afraid. I could afford my first home. I paid it off and I've purchased three more. But without a loan I'd still be saving for my first home purchase.

You can live just fine without loans or credit. I have a divorced long time friend who's psycho wife ruined him financially. He ended up in bankruptcy. He has no credit and complains constantly about the things he can't do without loans or credit. He wanted a new wide screen TV because his old one quit working but couldn't afford it. Without credit he couldn't get one so I loaned him five hundred dollars for a few months. Essentially, I became his bank and gave him a loan.

Every time you borrow money from a friend or family you secured a loan. Just because the loan originator was not a bank does not mean loans are absent from your life.

I like following Dave Ramsey's advice on living debt free. Only buy what you can afford, work hard to pay off your debts so you can let your money work for you.

My co-workers are driving around expensive Camaros, the latest BMWs, etc. I could afford just about any car I want but I bought a 5000 euro 2006 Smart Roadster. I enjoy driving it, it has great fuel mileage and runs great. I paid cash for it. If the bitcoin price wasn't so low right now I'd be putting more toward paying off my mortgage, I was putting $4k per month toward it last year when the price was high, now I'd rather have that extra money going toward cheap coins. But I should have it paid off in the next couple of years. Then I will be truly debt free and free from the chains of the banks.

Will you be buying the boat or renting it?

If you'll buy it, aren't you at risk of being caught? what if for some reason they ask where did you get the money from to buy that boat?
That would be my biggest concern, because once they ask you.. what options do you have?

I will buy it. If Bitcoin is over $1k I will pay the guy with bitcoins. Otherwise I will sell my house and pay for it.

As for asking where I got the money...I will likely be buying the boat in a foreign country, most likely registering it under a bahamas flag. If I do pay with bitcoins I will do my darndest to pay the appropriate income taxes because I love the IRS and want to have sex with any agent reading this.

Sure, your debt days are behind you as soon as you pay off your home loan. I think as long as you never want to own a home or buy expensive things anyone can live debt free. That life isn't for me because I like my home and my cabin on 4 acres in the woods and leasing a new car every year instead of buying one every 4-5 years and vacations that are easier with credit cards than without, etc.  I do commend your personal sacrifice though. I couldn't do it because I'm a spoiled brat with lots of nice toys. lol

Ok,
maybe I say this now since I don't need to buy a house, I don't need a car and so on.
It's true what you say dear QA but, anyway, as Elwar also said being debt-free gives you a kind of freedom that otherwise you can't have.

Simple example:
I still use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus bought in 2012: I did not want any contract, anything. I could have had any phone I wanted but I simply love that one and I bought a new battery on Amazon for 12$ which works just fine!

Of course, you could say, that's a small scale example but... I feel definitely better than my friend with an Iphone who's still paying a lot of money for a 30-months contract.
One can get into the loop then: today Iphone 6, next year Iphone 7 or whatever always with one contract.
Then one day it'll be the car, then the house and so forth.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I say that, if I can, I say no.
 ;)

Nice discussion

I always dramed with living on a boat, but at the end of the day I always chickened out, because I wouldn't feel as safe as living on a house/flat.
If you do buy it on some far away island to register it over there... are you going to live on that island, or you will go back to europe/america?
If so what kind of boat are we talking about that could travel that far?

I am looking at somewhere around 40 foot catamaran sailboat. I would just live wherever the weather is nice. Though I am looking at seasteading options. They will likely have the first one up in a few years.

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Because banks and credit cards are also a huge pain, and the banking system will be quick to remind you about it if you do something they don't like.

Regarding boats, I see 2 problems with them.

The first is that unless you're in the Southern hemisphere, in Europe or Florida, you'll have to pay at any port to get in.
Then boats don't last as well as houses, and their maintenance can get really expensive.

I'll stick to land, but that doesn't mean to a fixed place. Freedom is in traveling.

You have a single pathetic point but you are the person that stayed in Europe centuries ago or the person that stayed on the East coast of The newly formed USA.  See you later, whateveryournameis.  Keep moving, Elwar.  You are my hero.

Great job with the uncreative insults. If you believe in what the OP is doing, why not do it yourself?

There's nothing wrong with staying in Europe, and in fact, Northern Europe is a much better place than the USA. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with the East coast; as logically flawed as your point was, you still choose a rather pathetic example.

See, with moving to the New World, or the West Coast, or becoming an Early adopter of bitcoin, there are huge potential benefits. People made millions of dollars. Billions of dollars, even. For the efforts and risks they took, they created a lot of value in the world, and they reaped the benefits of that themselves as well.


But what about what the OP is doing? How will that help society? How will that help himself? It won't. All it does is limit his own choices. There is no potential upside. A person who chooses to live without fiat a year earlier than everyone else won't benefit him (or anyone else) in any way; it's completely different than being a first mover in the New World or whatever.

Having a bank account is convenient...for the government to track every transaction that I make. For the banks to control who can and cannot have access to that "convenience". They are a third party holding my funds. If you don't own the private keys, the money is not yours.

I have found Bitcoin to be so much more convenient than my bank account. I must have had at least 3 different e-mails telling me on the 1st of the month that my card on file had expired. Companies that could withdraw funds from my account. My friend at work just had over $800 taken out of his bank account this week for his phone bill that was linked to his account. He was having trouble with his phone plan so he switched to a different one on the site. He did not realize that the new plan charged 40 cents per kB of data while all of the plans he used before had data included. I've had so many automatic fees taken out of my bank account that I've had to dispute. One that charged me $50 per month for over a year that I could not get the right number or department to turn it off, finally going to the bank to get them to block it.

With Bitcoin I control my money. My hosting service charges me monthly in bitcoins. If I want to stop my service I stop the payments. If I stay at a hotel and they want to tack on some fees after I've left...they cannot, I paid with bitcoins. I don't have to worry about insufficient fund fees kicking in because of a bad ordering of payments which then snowball for a bunch of tiny purchases. I don't have to pay yearly credit card fees or interest payments ever again.

I can get paid in bitcoins from my US company and sell those bitcoins for a profit in euros to spend instead of paying for a wire transfer and currency exchange fee plus ATM fees to get the money from my paycheck.

That is convenience.

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

Absolutely. This.

Everyone talks about being a survivor.  What is the point?  We don't need any more survivors.  We need more dreamers and explorers.  Imagine (or look up) what people like you said about the ones who got on boats pointed at the New World?  People who do not seek their dreams will likely end up as sludge that doesn't go down the drain; You, I suppose.

Also, I have mined since 2010.  I am an early adopter.  I operate full nodes and run over a terrahash to heat my 6200 sq ft house.  What makes you think I am not on the same path as Elwar in regards to going fully bitcoin?  It is why I asked him about the rental stuff because I own a bit of real estate and some businesses.  You put the ass in assumptions.

TL;DR:  this person (Elwar) is a pioneer and a hero.  We should cheer for him.  If he is not a hero, what is a hero to you?  Some cowardly schmuck that stays indoors and plays video games and occasionally looks out his window?

I think he wants to stay out of the system 100% to achieve a tax free life. So far is he is doing great, since the first step is getting paid of BTC and buying with BTC, without interaction with fiat whatsoever.

This sounds very exciting. Keep us updated on how things roll. Im willing to try something like this in the future, when (hopefully) my BTC stack is enough (10+ years?).

I think you are relying too heavily on bitwage.co. Most employers need a certain amount of notice in order to change where your direct deposit payment is sent to, so if/when bitwage.co runs into problems and/or turns into the next gox, you could potentially have two, or maybe even three pay periods worth of money sent to them depending on how quickly you can see they are having problems.

I think it is good to use/spend your bitcoin as much as you can, however I don't think it is smart to entrust a third party with so much of your money as you are doing.

Our of curiosity, when you sell on LBC, are you able to get above market rates, or do you need to lose some amount to liquidity providers?

I don't think that is why he did it.After all he still need to pay tax unless he's living in a country( or a citizen of a country) that have zero tax.

A lot of what he is doing is going to allow him to avoid the reporting requirements that would make it easy for a taxing authority to know how much income the OP has.

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it is. My impression is that he is trying to avoid using government fiat as much as possible, however there are not enough businesses that accept bitcoin for this to be a viable option yet. I think a better approach would be a greater push to get more merchants to accept bitcoin so they can see it's cost advantages

The concept of loans isn't evil. The institutions loaning the money are. If you borrow $40k from your parents to attend college and promise to repay the loan over 10 years they won't destroy your financial future if you miss a few payments. Banks will chase you to the ends of the earth, destroy your credit rating, garnish your wages and attach a property lien on your possessions to get paid. Because that process is so destructive you'd be lucky if you could rent an apartment when it's over. I hate the process of commercial loans and lending. I just haven't seen a decent alternative yet.

OP is trying to use Bitcoin as much as possible - which is a good thing, but the way he is doing that is bad IMO. I'd suggest keeping the cards and accounts and getting paid in your national currency - buying BTC with your card when you need them instead of getting paid in BTC and cashing out on LocalBitcoins or getting only a part of your income in BTC if that's possible.

I don't think it's possible to avoid taxes using bitwage. They report from what I believe, and so does your employer, as usual. This has little if anything to do with taxes.

I guess you're right.

This entire line of conversion was started by this post  which is pretty much seems out of the blue for me.

Yes QA. I also said it is neither good nor bad. I understand what you mean. But as you specified one thing is to borrow money from a "trusted" source i.e. your parents, another thing is to go to a leech of whatever kind (banks & co.).

If you pass me this I could say that maybe this whole thing of building up credit, avoid overdrafts, use credit cards instead of money one might already have, this whole mechanism is evil. This is the problem.
We should be aware that everything start from our choice. Please don't answer "I have no choice". But go back to the roots of those choices and see if you could have done it differently.

these are my 2 cents

online business that are relevant are all accepting bitcoin already, offline you may be right there are many that are still far behind in time

the point of the OP is to detach himself of the control from government and going 100% bitcoin is the only way to do so, i'm supporting 100% what he is doing, and i will do the same in the future when bitcoin will be more accepted


completely with you, bitcoin offers surely a greater privacy than credit card/debit card, no more random providers who calls you to offer you stupid business everyday, i hate those to death

1. I never talked about "being a survivor", whatever that means.

2. "People like me". And you're saying I'm making assumptions? ROFL. You're making completely unfounded assumptions about me. I clearly showed you the reasons why going to the New World is fundamentally different from just using bitcoins. If you can't understand that, that's your own problem. I never made any assumptions of you.

I'm not even gonna waste my time pointing out all the logical fallcies in your posts. It's so sad all you can do is insult people without any logic.

If BitWage has any problems I would know about it within hours of missing my paycheck. My paycheck is every other Friday, I usually get an e-mail about 6-7PM on that day with the amount of bitcoins deposited into my account and the rate. If this did not happen I could call them, if they give me the run around I would call my company and have them reverse the direct deposit(which would be a hassle, but possible). And from there I would certainly drop them. So at most, one paycheck is lost if they go under. They don't keep peoples bitcoins though. I gave them my bitcoin address that I have in cold storage, they send to that address immediately once the direct deposit goes through.

For localbitcoins I am getting 10% above the market rate, I get enough for spending money and rent each month.

As for taxes, yes I am avoiding taxes...legally. I live outside the US working for a US company. If you live outside the US for more than 330 days out of the year you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. This means that the first $100k of my salary is tax free and I can write off any housing costs. My situation is unique in that I work as a contractor for the US military so I do not have to pay taxes in the country I live in (I can even avoid paying VAT, but usually don't bother with the process).

I prefer Bitcoin than credit card. Good decision.  :)

Thanks  clearing that out. :)

You're wrong.  ;)

You're not avoiding them if you're not supposed to pay them. There's no tax avoidance in your case.
I will say you're in a very good position.
If you were an Italian citizen (and thank God for you you are not) they would be at your front door every single day.

I've always thought that in common terminology tax avoidance and tax evasion were 2 different things. The first would be legal, such as moving the location of your business to a different jurisdiction, while the latter would be illegal (such as simply not paying taxes you are supposed to).

If I could go back and do it over I would do one thing differently to change my financial future. I would never have married. That one life decision can make you or break you and having kids is like having a garden hose connected to your wallet. You seem to walk around spraying money everywhere when you have children. One little cheap latex tube could have made me and additional mountain of money. The loans I've made in my life have always improved my situation whether it was a personal or a business loan. My bad decision wasn't related to the evil banking world, it was having a vagina around to vacuum away my money. Day before yesterday my wife came home with a little bag from Sephora. You couldn't fit a loaf of bread in the bag. I asked her how much she spent and she responded, "just a little less than $500". Fuck!

I wanted to share a saying we have in Italian but I'm afraid it will not make sense to you. But I totally see what you mean.

I think it's not a good idea, you need to split it. 50% for credit/debit card and 50% for Bitcoin

So Ebay is irrelevant? because last time I checked you couldn't accept BTC as an ebay seller.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with this is bills. I couldn't be able to pay for basic services with BTC, because there aren't any around that accept it.

I sill think you will need credit/debit cards, at least for a couple of years, for it's convince. Even though BTC is slowly getting there.

Well you could get an anonymous debit card to use if you were worried about being tracked or everyone knowing your business. I think regular debit cards have their place though, and sometimes the convenience is worth a little sacrifice.

http://www.billpayforcoins.com

they allow you to pay your bill just like a bank bill pay system, and I was told the fee will come down this week after they roll out a new feature that will make it easy for everyone to do the same thing I'm doing

I would love to do the same become bitcoin only sadly theirs not enough places that use bitcoin around me to live off independently. Would love to be paid in bitcoin from my job would be good and then to  turn some to fiat when needed. If their where more shops and places to buy food from local id be using bitcoin every day.

Pioneering stuff Elwar.  

 I'd say give it one more year and i'll be following in your footsteps.  8)

no cards 2016 no bank 2017.

Wish you well. It would be great to get an occasional update with this and any problems your hit along the way.


Ps surely there must be a Bitcoin car rental option in europe these days??

I guess if you really stayed on top of it, and were really paranoid then I would think you would have no more then one paycheck at risk at any time. However I would think there would be some reasonable explanations that many people would be able/willing to accept as to why they are not sending your bitcoin to you immediately. At the company I work for, you need to give roughly 6ish days notice to have direct deposit information changed, and I don't think they would be willing to reverse a direct deposit, although I have not tried.
Very nice, this is essentially at least a 2-3% bonus (depending on how much of your salary you need to convert into fiat, price declines, ect.) raise over your normal wage. This is also the taxes I was referring to as say you needed to sell $1,100 worth of bitcoin to cover your fiat related living expenses, but only "paid" $1,000 (via your wages) then you would owe taxes on that $100 in short term capital gains (assuming the below tax break would not apply to this)
That has nothing to do with bitcoin, however is a pretty sweet deal. I should probably look into doing that as that would save me a great deal of money.

Great story indeed
If we started a Poll to ask people, if they could do the same thing, almost 90% of them would say NO.
I find that it is easier for people living in 1st world countries to break the chains, than with 3rd world countries. Simply because more services like these exist locally for them to go 100% off the grid.
This is truely inspiring and one of my primary goals for the future.

what kind of card is it?

It was a Carte Blanche. He was the last person on earth with an active account. lol

https://victualling.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/carteblanche1959.jpg

Do you take any anonymous measures like mixing coins before paying and whatnot? or you don't care about what shows up on the blockchain?
I would like to try this but I don't want my name attached to blockchain transactions.

I would think it the other way around - third world countries don't have credit cards do they?
Not that Mexico is a third world country, but when I was there several years ago people actually owned the cars they drove and credit cards didn't exist.

Yeah and Mexican sewers don't work. They wipe their ass and throw the paper in a bucket next to the toilet. The age of consent is 18 but most things in Mexico don't go by the law. It's common to see 14-15 year old prostitutes working the streets. Drug cartels control major sections of Mexico including the largest cities. The Mexican Federales are afraid of the largest cartels like the Knights Templar, Los Zetas or Sinaloa unless they're on the take (which they usually are). I lived in Mexico for a few years and even thought about buying a retirement house in Baja. Don't make decisions based on what happens in Mexico. There's a reason they keep illegally crossing the border into the USA. I would too if I was born in Mexico.

It sounds like you are above board regarding your bitcoin dealings and taxes. Based on what I have heard from people I have discussed bitcoin with in person, it seems that a lot of people are engaging in questionable tax practices when it comes to their bitcoin dealings which is not a smart idea nor is it good for "bitcoin's" reputation

The thing is if you are a trader, even if you wanted to, it would be a pain in the ass to report all tax gains. Let's say you've been trading since 2010+mining+signature campaings+gamblings, now add up the fact some of the exchanges you traded at are dead and buried and records are lost, now take into account some of the coins you holded and exchanged are dead, now into account you've mixed your coins several times... how in hell are you supossed to report anything? it gives me an headache if someone asked me where my bitcoins come from, because i don't even know it at this point.

No, please, there are ways to avoid all that. No company has any right to make direct debits on my account, I haven't paid for any fee for a wire transfer for over a year, and I've only paid ATM fee once this year because I had no time to go to the fee-less ATM. I had a bank account with ridiculous fees, but I quickly closed it. With a bit of organization, banks work. You can make BTC works too, but BTC also calls for organization.

The problem as I sse it today, is that if you want to avoid cards, you'll always end up spending more. You can fly Easyjet without a credit card, but you'll pay more. I bought a car in Germany last week. Germans usually don't pay the registration tax on the spot, they give their bank account details, and the money is taken off their account sometimes later. With me not having a bank account in Germany, I had to use the service of an agent, and I paid him cash, but I ended up paying more than a German with a bank account would have paid... I hope that someday, companies will give you a discount if you pay with BTC, but I don't see that coming soon for anything I usually buy.

Interesting, I bought a car in Germany last fall. I had no cash and to transfer that much over would have taken days. I could take money from my US bank account at the ATM at a heavy conversion and ATM fee which had a limit of 4-500 euro per day so it would have taken me 10 days of doing that to get the cash. Instead I went on localbitcoins and got 5000 euros for my 12 bitcoins (price was higher at the time) and paid the private seller in cash. It is probably different for me since I go through the military for registration. That was a hassle of its own.

What part of Germany are you in?

Ok, a few people asked for me to update with any difficulties I run into with this.

I usually do not buy bitcoins through localbitcoins but I stuck an ad on there anyway a long time ago at a percentage that I did not think anyone would ever take, and since Germany blocked localbitcoins I cannot edit my ad so everyone in Germany is locked into how we were in December. (I probably shouldn't be saying on a public forum that people can still get to those ads...so shhh).

Anyway, I get a message from someone who really needed some money. He arrived in Germany to work and the ATM ate his card. He tried to get his wife to Western Union him some money but he had a hard time finding one and the fees were more than my ridiculous exchange rate (20% discount). So he contacted me and I really could not pass up such a rate so I gave him all the cash I had available. I had deposited a lot the week before so I only had a few hundred euro available. I had a few sales so I had some spending money again but he contacted me again a week later. He was moving into an apartment and needed some money. I again gave him everything I had, only a few hundred euro.
Long story short, I was starting to run out of food and money for spending.

Usually I have cash around so it's no big deal. I finally had to go into my big pile of coins that I've been amassing since I arrived in Europe. Fortunately they have a 2 euro coin and I just throw those to the side like they're quarters. I was fine but that was the first time I felt the pinch of not being able to access my money and taught me that I need to keep some reserves around just in case. Fortunately rent is not due until the end of the month and I have enough people buying bitcoins that I am caught up now but that gave me a flashback to the college days of scraping up change for food.

The problem I see now is getting dollars. I work for the military so I can use the Commissary to buy cheap American food but they only take dollars. I also fill up my gas card with dollars which gives me US prices at the pump. I did fill that up with $200 last month and I drive a Smart car so I should be good for about half a year. I was thinking maybe I could buy popular gadgets for 35% off on Amazon through purse.io and sell it to people on post for dollars through the local craigslist. And I think it is better that I not eat American food anyway, it's probably healthier to spend the extra few euros for German food. I just need to get used to less preservatives means cooking things quicker.

I am looking to go on a vacation in France next week so we'll see how that goes.
 

Do they have BTC ATMs in Germany or near you, or do you depend only on localbitcoins to get cash?

I was in Koln, but I left on the 11th, and I have already been to 3 other countries since then. Travel is my life!
It's quite true that ATMs aren't good tools to withdraw large sums, but if you're with an international bank, you can make larger withdrawals at the counter. Then I suppose it's not that easy to sell 12 BTC for cash in a single transaction. It will be much easier when there will be car sellers accepting BTC...


What? Do you have an American gas card which works in Europe?

I have an Esso card through the military instead of needing to go on base to fill up.


As for ATMs, I think there are only 2 in Germany and they are only for buying bitcoins.

Ok so I cancelled a credit card today. I'm trying to reduce and eventually be fiat free like Elwar - but I have a way to go (gotta pay off my credit cards).

It was like pulling teeth to close the credit card. First they told me all about my history. When I applied, that I transferred funds, that I paid it off quickly, that I made a transaction in October and several in January.. my whole life story since I had the card.
Then the next 30 minutes was spent trying to give me every possible reason why I should not cancel. And they kept saying: Well, while you are still thinking about closing your account, let me give you other reasons to consider..
Finally it got to the point that I just repeated after everything they said: "Close my account please" and they finally did.

I did not mention bitcoin. I did not want them flagging me!

Aren't you paying a huge premium though running only on Bitcoin? Aren't the fees a major pain? I can imagine it being expensive to switch back and forth to bitcoin and back seeing as the world runs on fait, not BTC  :-\

Switching back and forth?

Nope, converting to bitcoins and spending bitcoins. I sometimes need fiat so I sell bitcoins for a profit using localbitcoins.

My next challenge is that sometimes I order electronics on Amazon through Purse.io and they don't ship to an APO address. So I have been using a ship to APO website (apobox.com) that charges my credit card so I can use a US address that they then box and ship to my APO address.
I will put in a request at the various sites to see if they can add bitcoin as a payment option.

Nice story..! Although I cannot agree with you that german food is much healthier than american food. Germans eat like not veggies at all! Only meat, potatoes and bread :P

But lets face it, credit cards are easier to use than bitcoins for the next 100 years.

I'm actually very impressed at how much you've managed to integrate usage of Bitcoin into most of your payments. For me I've only been able to buy a few electronic goods (i.e. domains, servers etc). Do you have plans to continue using Bitcoin long term? And do you have a strategy set up in case Bitcoin falls significantly compared to the USD worsening the value of your holdings or do you just have most of your worth with a bank?


For laypeople I'd have to agree. There still needs to be more simplification of the system for end users and greater access to goods and services bought with Bitcoin before usage will rise significantly.

Daily reminder that OP AKA Elwar is the resident attention whore of this forum, proud SJW and just an all around faggot.

He'll make threads like "why don't girls use bitcoin more"? and "im a special snowflake who doesn't use credit cards anymore!" even though we all know that's a flat out lie.

He made his account in 2010 but you can bet dollars to donuts he sold any bitcoins he had when they were worth little to nothing, and made always zero profit.

At this point his best bet is to sell his "legendary" account filled with spam bullshit and hope to make up for all those bitcoins he sold when they were worth nothing.

i find more tedious to use credit card at supermarket than probably pay with bitcoin(still not common there), the boring part on writing your pin everytime, not to mention the risk associated with that, also the magnetic stripe of the credit card will be ruined after some time you use it(it was the case with one of my old debit card)

We should not mention bitcoin at all, when we close our accounts. The banks does not need any more information about this matter, than what you want to tell them.
They sr3w us over for years and then we have to arm them with knowledge to hurt us more?
Just close your accounts and tell them you are changing banks for cheaper banking fees.

I'm kind of liking the Case wallet coming out. With the right stuff on the merchant side there could be an argument that it makes transactions the same if not easier than credit cards.

For online payments it is so much easier to pay with bitcoins.

Though I do not get the chance to pay with bitcoins very often in the real world, paying with bitcoins is so easy. Take out your phone (which everyone carries now), open Coinbase...scan the QR code, hit send. Done.

I don't give my phone to someone to take somewhere, I don't have to worry about what cards I have in my wallet when I leave the house, if someone robs me and steals everything (including my phone) I am not out any money or hassle with credit card companies and replacements. My phone is locked and encrypted so good luck getting to my Coinbase wallet before I change my password.

Just took a trip to Lyon, France over the weekend. What I could not pay for with bitcoins I paid with cash (obtained from selling on localbitcoins). The only difference was when checking out of the hotel they asked for my credit card to charge the room. I assured the girl that I already paid. She told me a lot of people think they paid but only reserved the room with my credit card. I told her I paid with bitcoins and have no credit card so it was definitely paid. She pulled up my paperwork and sure enough, it showed the room was paid upfront via Expedia.

My strategy is that if Bitcoin falls significantly, in 2 weeks I get paid again. And I will continue to get paid.

Does that mean that you don't hold significant savings in bitcoins? If so, then what do you use to save?

About 98% of my wealth is in bitcoins. Other than home equity and retirement.

If bitcoin went to $0 tomorrow I could still pay my rent, I could still afford food and gas. I live far below my income but am still able to travel and do other things I enjoy.

But with the reward halving coming next year, I am fine with holding as many bitcoins as I can get at these low prices.

Well actually what you said is true. You are changing bank for better one. With lower fees and much more usable.

Right now, the total transaction volume is more than 10 times the output from mining. So I don't think that there is a strong correlation between mining and exchange rates. On the other hand, if the exchange rates remain at $200-300 range, then large institutional investors might dump their Bitcoin holdings, which will further weaken the prices.

The bank must hate you for cutting the cord, which is why we love you.  :-*

So the latest thing I ran into was that I wanted an app for my phone via Google Play. I could not find any way to pay with Bitcoin. I realized I still have money in my PayPal account so I used that.

I usually like to e-mail companies when I run into something I want to buy that I can't pay for. After searching for the person that would be in charge of such matters I found Ariel Bardin was the one to contact. I shot off an e-mail to ariel.bardin@gmail.com to see if that's the right guy.


One ship to APO company replied to my e-mail and said they were "keeping an eye" on Bitcoin for now. I just don't understand what they would be waiting for. Like something big will change where they need to jump on board.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get an Amazon fire stick shipped to me.

Yeah I guess it's "good luck" if you want to buy an Apple product?

I guess you can buy iTunes codes with Bitcoin
https://www.gyft.com/buy-gift-cards/itunes-code/

Looks like I didn't search enough for Google Play
http://www.yottaelectronics.com/products/google-play-gift-card

Have someone you know buy it and ship it to you. I'd do it for you but I have a policy of not involving money in any way with this forum. Maybe you could get one of the mods or admin to ship you one.

Ya, I could just have it sent to my mom's house but I'm trying to figure out something that will work repeatedly. I could order it on Amazon UK (and have it shipped to my German address) but the price is 1.5 times the US price. Which I can cut back down to regular price through purse.io.

Would you consider using BTC debit card? Cause using only BTC seems almost impossible in Europe.

That might be your only solution until the Bitcoin economy is a little more mature. The U.S. policy of not allowing simple electronics to be shipped to APO or FPO addresses is stupid. Do they think you're going to make a dirty bomb with an Amazon fire stick? Ridiculousness.

I solved the Amazon Fire stick thing using bitcoins.

Went to ebay and found a fire stick and the guy shipped worldwide. I ordered it for $43.97. I went to gyft.com and bought a $45 ebay gift card (found out later I could have saved $1 using egifter.com which lets you order down to the dollar). I put the gift code in and the purchase amount changed to $0. I still had to log in with my PayPal account to "pay" zero dollars.

The fire stick showed up yesterday.

I don't really want a PayPal account though. I just got charged over $100 for my Rosetta Stone subscription through PayPal. I thought it had ended.

I get a few e-mails here and there from companies telling me that my credit card on file needs to be updated. A small charge here and there from some service I signed up for would pop up at times and I'd just live with it because it's always such a hassle to cancel a service. Now I can just let them send me e-mails.

That you have to log in with PayPal to use a eBay car doesn't make any sense. But then again eBay policy doesn't make sense either. Congrats on getting the fire stick!

too much hassle for me, i think i'll just wait for amazon to accept bitcoin, they will end up there eventually, it is only a matter of when the 8mb will kick in

it is the only e-commerce that is holding me off from going fully bitcoin, this and maybe some taxes bitcoin service for euro

I doubt Amazon will ever accept Bitcoin because they have a competing service. https://payments.amazon.com/customer

I was wondering today how to go about getting a mortgage with Bitcoin.

At the moment it brings up too many issues. It made my brain hurt, so I gave up thinking about it for now.

Your other post shows that you use the ANX debit card. How is that working out for you? Have you tried out other cards? What is your experience so far?

I filled it with about $250 but the rate was 5% to charge it a few months ago. It took about 4 days to get filled. I don't see it as a solution.

I pay for everything with cash so I haven't tried to use it yet.