I let my last credit/debit card expire this month

[Amph]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it is. My impression is that he is trying to avoid using government fiat as much as possible, however there are not enough businesses that accept bitcoin for this to be a viable option yet. I think a better approach would be a greater push to get more merchants to accept bitcoin so they can see it's cost advantages

online business that are relevant are all accepting bitcoin already, offline you may be right there are many that are still far behind in time

the point of the OP is to detach himself of the control from government and going 100% bitcoin is the only way to do so, i'm supporting 100% what he is doing, and i will do the same in the future when bitcoin will be more accepted

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

completely with you, bitcoin offers surely a greater privacy than credit card/debit card, no more random providers who calls you to offer you stupid business everyday, i hate those to death

[futureofbitcoin]

Everyone talks about being a survivor.  What is the point?  We don't need any more survivors.  We need more dreamers and explorers.  Imagine (or look up) what people like you said about the ones who got on boats pointed at the New World?  People who do not seek their dreams will likely end up as sludge that doesn't go down the drain; You, I suppose.

Also, I have mined since 2010.  I am an early adopter.  I operate full nodes and run over a terrahash to heat my 6200 sq ft house.  What makes you think I am not on the same path as Elwar in regards to going fully bitcoin?  It is why I asked him about the rental stuff because I own a bit of real estate and some businesses.  You put the ass in assumptions.

TL;DR:  this person (Elwar) is a pioneer and a hero.  We should cheer for him.  If he is not a hero, what is a hero to you?  Some cowardly schmuck that stays indoors and plays video games and occasionally looks out his window?

1. I never talked about "being a survivor", whatever that means.

2. "People like me". And you're saying I'm making assumptions? ROFL. You're making completely unfounded assumptions about me. I clearly showed you the reasons why going to the New World is fundamentally different from just using bitcoins. If you can't understand that, that's your own problem. I never made any assumptions of you.

I'm not even gonna waste my time pointing out all the logical fallcies in your posts. It's so sad all you can do is insult people without any logic.

[Elwar]

I'm currently paid 100% in Bitcoin through bitwage.co.  I pay for as much as I can using bitcoins.

I think you are relying too heavily on bitwage.co. Most employers need a certain amount of notice in order to change where your direct deposit payment is sent to, so if/when bitwage.co runs into problems and/or turns into the next gox, you could potentially have two, or maybe even three pay periods worth of money sent to them depending on how quickly you can see they are having problems.

I think it is good to use/spend your bitcoin as much as you can, however I don't think it is smart to entrust a third party with so much of your money as you are doing.

I actively sell bitcoins on localbitcoins so I usually have plenty of cash for buying food and paying rent.

Our of curiosity, when you sell on LBC, are you able to get above market rates, or do you need to lose some amount to liquidity providers?

If BitWage has any problems I would know about it within hours of missing my paycheck. My paycheck is every other Friday, I usually get an e-mail about 6-7PM on that day with the amount of bitcoins deposited into my account and the rate. If this did not happen I could call them, if they give me the run around I would call my company and have them reverse the direct deposit(which would be a hassle, but possible). And from there I would certainly drop them. So at most, one paycheck is lost if they go under. They don't keep peoples bitcoins though. I gave them my bitcoin address that I have in cold storage, they send to that address immediately once the direct deposit goes through.

For localbitcoins I am getting 10% above the market rate, I get enough for spending money and rent each month.

As for taxes, yes I am avoiding taxes...legally. I live outside the US working for a US company. If you live outside the US for more than 330 days out of the year you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. This means that the first $100k of my salary is tax free and I can write off any housing costs. My situation is unique in that I work as a contractor for the US military so I do not have to pay taxes in the country I live in (I can even avoid paying VAT, but usually don't bother with the process).

[BTC_Superman]

I prefer Bitcoin than credit card. Good decision. 

[Ruthful]

As for taxes, yes I am avoiding taxes...legally. I live outside the US working for a US company. If you live outside the US for more than 330 days out of the year you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. This means that the first $100k of my salary is tax free and I can write off any housing costs. My situation is unique in that I work as a contractor for the US military so I do not have to pay taxes in the country I live in (I can even avoid paying VAT, but usually don't bother with the process).

Thanks  clearing that out.

[acquafredda]

I'm currently paid 100% in Bitcoin through bitwage.co.  I pay for as much as I can using bitcoins.

I think you are relying too heavily on bitwage.co. Most employers need a certain amount of notice in order to change where your direct deposit payment is sent to, so if/when bitwage.co runs into problems and/or turns into the next gox, you could potentially have two, or maybe even three pay periods worth of money sent to them depending on how quickly you can see they are having problems.

I think it is good to use/spend your bitcoin as much as you can, however I don't think it is smart to entrust a third party with so much of your money as you are doing.

I actively sell bitcoins on localbitcoins so I usually have plenty of cash for buying food and paying rent.

Our of curiosity, when you sell on LBC, are you able to get above market rates, or do you need to lose some amount to liquidity providers?

As for taxes, yes I am avoiding taxes...legally. I live outside the US working for a US company. If you live outside the US for more than 330 days out of the year you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. This means that the first $100k of my salary is tax free and I can write off any housing costs. My situation is unique in that I work as a contractor for the US military so I do not have to pay taxes in the country I live in (I can even avoid paying VAT, but usually don't bother with the process).

You're wrong.  

You're not avoiding them if you're not supposed to pay them. There's no tax avoidance in your case.
I will say you're in a very good position.
If you were an Italian citizen (and thank God for you you are not) they would be at your front door every single day.

[Soros Shorts]

You're wrong.  

You're not avoiding them if you're not supposed to pay them. There's no tax avoidance in your case.

I've always thought that in common terminology tax avoidance and tax evasion were 2 different things. The first would be legal, such as moving the location of your business to a different jurisdiction, while the latter would be illegal (such as simply not paying taxes you are supposed to).

[QuestionAuthority]

Ok,
maybe I say this now since I don't need to buy a house, I don't need a car and so on.
It's true what you say dear QA but, anyway, as Elwar also said being debt-free gives you a kind of freedom that otherwise you can't have.

Simple example:
I still use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus bought in 2012: I did not want any contract, anything. I could have had any phone I wanted but I simply love that one and I bought a new battery on Amazon for 12$ which works just fine!

Of course, you could say, that's a small scale example but... I feel definitely better than my friend with an Iphone who's still paying a lot of money for a 30-months contract.
One can get into the loop then: today Iphone 6, next year Iphone 7 or whatever always with one contract.
Then one day it'll be the car, then the house and so forth.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I say that, if I can, I say no.
 

Nice discussion

The concept of loans isn't evil. The institutions loaning the money are. If you borrow $40k from your parents to attend college and promise to repay the loan over 10 years they won't destroy your financial future if you miss a few payments. Banks will chase you to the ends of the earth, destroy your credit rating, garnish your wages and attach a property lien on your possessions to get paid. Because that process is so destructive you'd be lucky if you could rent an apartment when it's over. I hate the process of commercial loans and lending. I just haven't seen a decent alternative yet.

Yes QA. I also said it is neither good nor bad. I understand what you mean. But as you specified one thing is to borrow money from a "trusted" source i.e. your parents, another thing is to go to a leech of whatever kind (banks & co.).

If you pass me this I could say that maybe this whole thing of building up credit, avoid overdrafts, use credit cards instead of money one might already have, this whole mechanism is evil. This is the problem.
We should be aware that everything start from our choice. Please don't answer "I have no choice". But go back to the roots of those choices and see if you could have done it differently.

these are my 2 cents

If I could go back and do it over I would do one thing differently to change my financial future. I would never have married. That one life decision can make you or break you and having kids is like having a garden hose connected to your wallet. You seem to walk around spraying money everywhere when you have children. One little cheap latex tube could have made me and additional mountain of money. The loans I've made in my life have always improved my situation whether it was a personal or a business loan. My bad decision wasn't related to the evil banking world, it was having a vagina around to vacuum away my money. Day before yesterday my wife came home with a little bag from Sephora. You couldn't fit a loaf of bread in the bag. I asked her how much she spent and she responded, "just a little less than $500". Fuck!

[acquafredda]

That one life decision can make you or break you and having kids is like having a garden hose connected to your wallet.

I wanted to share a saying we have in Italian but I'm afraid it will not make sense to you. But I totally see what you mean.

[BlueInCoin]

I think it's not a good idea, you need to split it. 50% for credit/debit card and 50% for Bitcoin

[thejaytiesto]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it is. My impression is that he is trying to avoid using government fiat as much as possible, however there are not enough businesses that accept bitcoin for this to be a viable option yet. I think a better approach would be a greater push to get more merchants to accept bitcoin so they can see it's cost advantages

online business that are relevant are all accepting bitcoin already, offline you may be right there are many that are still far behind in time

the point of the OP is to detach himself of the control from government and going 100% bitcoin is the only way to do so, i'm supporting 100% what he is doing, and i will do the same in the future when bitcoin will be more accepted

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

completely with you, bitcoin offers surely a greater privacy than credit card/debit card, no more random providers who calls you to offer you stupid business everyday, i hate those to death

So Ebay is irrelevant? because last time I checked you couldn't accept BTC as an ebay seller.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with this is bills. I couldn't be able to pay for basic services with BTC, because there aren't any around that accept it.

[Sheldor333]

I sill think you will need credit/debit cards, at least for a couple of years, for it's convince. Even though BTC is slowly getting there.

[Moonpig]

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

Well you could get an anonymous debit card to use if you were worried about being tracked or everyone knowing your business. I think regular debit cards have their place though, and sometimes the convenience is worth a little sacrifice.

[Elwar]

While I do think it would be a bad idea, it would be possible for the OP to hide a good amount of his trading income, especially if he properly maintains his privacy

Trying to use bitcoin to break the law is a bad idea in general for lots of reason.I surely hope that isn't what the OP had in mind.

I don't think it is. My impression is that he is trying to avoid using government fiat as much as possible, however there are not enough businesses that accept bitcoin for this to be a viable option yet. I think a better approach would be a greater push to get more merchants to accept bitcoin so they can see it's cost advantages

online business that are relevant are all accepting bitcoin already, offline you may be right there are many that are still far behind in time

the point of the OP is to detach himself of the control from government and going 100% bitcoin is the only way to do so, i'm supporting 100% what he is doing, and i will do the same in the future when bitcoin will be more accepted

I don't get why everyone's supporting the OP. It seems silly to limit your choices like this. Clearly credit/debit cards still bring a lot of convenience in this world. Why not take advantage of that?

Example A. True story. I travel to a different state. I go to make a purchase. The card doesn't work. I call the number on the back of the card. I then have a total stranger on the phone tell me where when and what I purchased for the past week. I can't even remember all that. Now why do I want total strangers to be stalking me 24/7, knowing all my purchases, where and when? Imagine how much total strangers know about me! They know where I like to eat, what I like to eat. What I like to wear. What my tastes in movies and music is. Whether I am an introvert or whether I am an extrovert. The list goes on and on. They could probably have a sketch artist draw a picture of me and they could probably be very accurate.

And that doesn't even touch any of the other reasons - for paying interest, credit reports, reporting and flags etc.

I hate credit cards. I really hate credit cards. I will be following the lead of Elwar as soon as I can!

completely with you, bitcoin offers surely a greater privacy than credit card/debit card, no more random providers who calls you to offer you stupid business everyday, i hate those to death

So Ebay is irrelevant? because last time I checked you couldn't accept BTC as an ebay seller.

Anyway, I think the biggest problem with this is bills. I couldn't be able to pay for basic services with BTC, because there aren't any around that accept it.

http://www.billpayforcoins.com

they allow you to pay your bill just like a bank bill pay system, and I was told the fee will come down this week after they roll out a new feature that will make it easy for everyone to do the same thing I'm doing

[crazyearner]

I would love to do the same become bitcoin only sadly theirs not enough places that use bitcoin around me to live off independently. Would love to be paid in bitcoin from my job would be good and then to  turn some to fiat when needed. If their where more shops and places to buy food from local id be using bitcoin every day.

[lunarboy]

Pioneering stuff Elwar.  

 I'd say give it one more year and i'll be following in your footsteps.  

no cards 2016 no bank 2017.

Wish you well. It would be great to get an occasional update with this and any problems your hit along the way.


Ps surely there must be a Bitcoin car rental option in europe these days??

[goosoodude]

I'm currently paid 100% in Bitcoin through bitwage.co.  I pay for as much as I can using bitcoins.

I think you are relying too heavily on bitwage.co. Most employers need a certain amount of notice in order to change where your direct deposit payment is sent to, so if/when bitwage.co runs into problems and/or turns into the next gox, you could potentially have two, or maybe even three pay periods worth of money sent to them depending on how quickly you can see they are having problems.

I think it is good to use/spend your bitcoin as much as you can, however I don't think it is smart to entrust a third party with so much of your money as you are doing.

I actively sell bitcoins on localbitcoins so I usually have plenty of cash for buying food and paying rent.

Our of curiosity, when you sell on LBC, are you able to get above market rates, or do you need to lose some amount to liquidity providers?

If BitWage has any problems I would know about it within hours of missing my paycheck. My paycheck is every other Friday, I usually get an e-mail about 6-7PM on that day with the amount of bitcoins deposited into my account and the rate. If this did not happen I could call them, if they give me the run around I would call my company and have them reverse the direct deposit(which would be a hassle, but possible). And from there I would certainly drop them. So at most, one paycheck is lost if they go under. They don't keep peoples bitcoins though. I gave them my bitcoin address that I have in cold storage, they send to that address immediately once the direct deposit goes through.

I guess if you really stayed on top of it, and were really paranoid then I would think you would have no more then one paycheck at risk at any time. However I would think there would be some reasonable explanations that many people would be able/willing to accept as to why they are not sending your bitcoin to you immediately. At the company I work for, you need to give roughly 6ish days notice to have direct deposit information changed, and I don't think they would be willing to reverse a direct deposit, although I have not tried.

For localbitcoins I am getting 10% above the market rate, I get enough for spending money and rent each month.

Very nice, this is essentially at least a 2-3% bonus (depending on how much of your salary you need to convert into fiat, price declines, ect.) raise over your normal wage. This is also the taxes I was referring to as say you needed to sell $1,100 worth of bitcoin to cover your fiat related living expenses, but only "paid" $1,000 (via your wages) then you would owe taxes on that $100 in short term capital gains (assuming the below tax break would not apply to this)

As for taxes, yes I am avoiding taxes...legally. I live outside the US working for a US company. If you live outside the US for more than 330 days out of the year you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. This means that the first $100k of my salary is tax free and I can write off any housing costs. My situation is unique in that I work as a contractor for the US military so I do not have to pay taxes in the country I live in (I can even avoid paying VAT, but usually don't bother with the process).

That has nothing to do with bitcoin, however is a pretty sweet deal. I should probably look into doing that as that would save me a great deal of money.

[Elwar]

Very nice, this is essentially at least a 2-3% bonus (depending on how much of your salary you need to convert into fiat, price declines, ect.) raise over your normal wage. This is also the taxes I was referring to as say you needed to sell $1,100 worth of bitcoin to cover your fiat related living expenses, but only "paid" $1,000 (via your wages) then you would owe taxes on that $100 in short term capital gains (assuming the below tax break would not apply to this)

Unless I create a localbitcoin sales company based in the Caymans and I draw a salary for my efforts. Then it is income which is subject to the $100k limit. But paying capital gains on $1k or so for the year is not that big of a deal (which I keep diligent records of when exchanging cash for bitcoins because I love the IRS and am a loyal citizen, etc.).

[Kakmakr]

Great story indeed
If we started a Poll to ask people, if they could do the same thing, almost 90% of them would say NO.
I find that it is easier for people living in 1st world countries to break the chains, than with 3rd world countries. Simply because more services like these exist locally for them to go 100% off the grid.
This is truely inspiring and one of my primary goals for the future.

[BIT-Sharon]

what kind of card is it?