Bitcoin Forum

I was playing at Cloudbet tonight and had question that since we can't see wheel. Is it possible it is balanced or stable to make the ball land in one place or area  ?

Yes of course it is, are we talking live roulette then they are trained to be able to get it in an area not so much a single number but small group others who are really good can do pretty much anything. If it is online virtual then if it isn't provably fair then yes it can be rigged  >:(

It is always possible but I doubt thats the case. Since a lot of viewers play on these sites together, so if the Wheel is biased , it would make only a few people win. Say if you bet on odd, and more people bet on even , then if the wheel is biased to come up odd, then you win. Its hard to know where it is biased towards .

But again it doesn't mean they can change it anytime they want to. It will just be biased towards one side, which is actually worse for them ,as anyone who finds out can exploit it.

Well if it is live is definitely not provably fair because its impossible i guess, they could very well be rigging it but if a lot of people is playing at the time, they dont really win much by doing so because where one player loses the other could be winning. Just dont play live roulette, there is no point, go to a real casino if you want that

I don't think they can change the balance of the wheel like that. The wheels are actually unbalanced by default, and due to that a number or group of numbers are more likely to happen. A Casino , live online or live in casino , cannot just unbalance it in front of the camera or other people, and that is the reason I doubt they do it, specially because if someone realizes it, the casino could lose a lot because of it being exploited.
However if someone was continuously betting on Even , then they might do so .

Have been trying Jetwin's Immersive Roulette. It's something unreal!

As the live dealer spins the wheel, you can see and follow every movement of the ball – all in 200 frames-per-second HD video and with a slow motion replay of the winning number-colour as the ball comes to rest.

The point is I know from casino and life experience that when a dealer is taught how to spin they are taught to get it in a area when needed. Lets say you and 5 other high rollers are at the table and most of the bets are on tier, then the spinner is going to be spinning in the 0 area where there are not as much bets (which is easy for them). I Said nothing about an unbalanced wheel because that does not matter in the slightest to them, wheels are changed between tables anyway so you never know which is which that is nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am talking about precise spinners which I know to be fact please don't try tell me different.

why cant it be rigged? even if you saw the whole wheel you couldnt tell if its fair or not as under it can be magnets and so on so i guess when playing live roulette its even easier to be scammed than playing a provably fair one

That might be a possibility , but the thing is that the numbers on the wheel are distributed randomly , so if someone bets on red or black, or say over/under , then relying on the fact that where to spin from won't work.

Thats not true, Magnets will never be used, as the ball will experience a force due to the magnet, and since all eyes are on the ball, even the slightest deviation from its expected movement will be visible, and will be caught .

You are still missing the point.. They don't care about 50/50 because that is not controllable and I never claimed it was, most of the time they don't care at all but if a few whales start piling on in known areas, tier for example then the spinner is trained to miss that area, simple as that.

Physical roulette is very easy to be rigged so why not online one ? If the online roulette or any gambling site is not provably fair tested you can expect anything.I dont say about th mentioned one but talk in general.Yes,it is possible to be so.

Online roulette is even easier than live to rig, for starters you don't have all the eyes on you at all times. If it isn't provably fair then you can bet your life savings that it is not fair lol and more than likely provably rigged!

Yes OP on live tables that get worn down after thousands of spins they become prone to certain numbers on the table, casino's usually counteract this by switching the wheels with others in the casino so people don't get savvy to which part of the roulette table is hot.

They dont need to rig roullette to take your money, the odds are already against you.  One thing about dice is at least the house edge is much less.

Ofcouse it can be rigged, if you have no way of checking the provable fairness of the results then it can be rigged, not only it goes for the live online games but also the other online casino games which provide no way of checking their fairness, such as some of the video slots.

In legitimate or licensed casinos like the ones in Las-Vegas, there's a gambling regulatory authority which checks each game and makes sure that it is fair before it can be put on the floor. And they even do random inspections to check whether a casino is cheating or not but a site hosting a live roulette table might rig it. There's no way to be sure.

It is cloudbet again, I have seen many complaints said cloudbet's live games are rigged, I think so too, because it is very easy to rip you off, they can replay video feeds instead.

Actually this casino has bad reputations because of rigged games, slow withdrawals and very low odds for sportbook, if you guys have much money to give them, they are very happy to get your easy money.  :D

All details you can read Cloudbet recent posts, review some pages, I think you won't gamble there any more.

well yeah their house edge is really big but if a whale comes and gets really lucky they need to do something, and the easiest way to bust him would be not letting him to win by rigging the game

yes that is happened so many times with cloudbet's live games, i think so online roulette wheel can be manipulated easily in favor of house and the dealer knows the result what will be come out when that wheel will stop, because they well trained to do like that.

trained to change the outcome of the roulette wheel? cant all casinos in real life do that then? it seems to be unbelievable

Friend of mine used to be a casino worker. Roulette is not 'rigged' but the operator is trained to land the ball wherever he wants. Good operators will be able to land the ball with a 2-3 spot miss from their target spot. Based on that, it's pretty easy for specific number bets to be dodged. This is why you'd want to sit on a table that is populated.  

there is golden rule for gambling we always play with that amount that we can afford to lose while we are blaming others for our lose, that is common thing in roulette some dealers knows where to land the ball for expected outcome result and that kind of things happened almost most the online casinos.

Since there are devices which use a camera to visually estimate where a ball will land based on the speed and all, I think this would definitely be possible, but again extremely hard. However, it is hard for them to rig the odds/even bets. Only the number bets are what are unsafe to place as that can be manipulated to an extent.

These operators of roulette are so good in doing their jobs to let the little part of money to winners in physical roulette in front of everyone's eyes without letting them know.Online is much more easy even we see wheel rotating they can do anything with different frequencies.So I would say this possible easily especially when there is no provably fair tested game.

Yeah its very possible over 95% of online casino sub-contract there live games to a number of companies and its very difficult to tell which ones are honest so i guess you have to go on your gut instincts.

And how would that possibly work since you can't bet after a ball has been spun?

It also works the other way.  If you find a bored croupier and tip him well enough you can see some impressive stuff.

Have you actually ever played live roulette because that question tells me you have not! I am still piling on the chips in the casino after the ball has spun usually get at least once or twice around the table before the croupier calls last bets. So that is how, I can tell if a croup is trying to place it with my eye by the speed and how many times it goes around before dropping. Anything less than 7 times round is suspicious.

So I played on betcoin.ag because I love poker there. Decided to try out the casino games.
Was a bit wasted and trying the Martingale method.
I won with small amounts over and over. I won like a grand.

Then I raised the amount I was betting.
Bet on red over and over. It came up black something like 15 times in a row.

If you have the money to loose try putting 1BTC on the wheel. 1BTC or more always looses when on the ~50 50 pieces.
I wanted to make my money back and I cannot stress this enough was stupidly wasted. I started with 1btc. Then 2btc. Then 4btc. Then 8btc. Then 16btc.

I lost about 5 grand total. 6 grand if you include the 1 grand I had won then lost.
I wish there was a way to prove it was a scam.
 :-\

Maybe I am just that unlucky

No one will ever know

I'm not so sure I agree with that.  I do agree that if the players had an HD view of the table then magnetic movements may be visible.  But depending on how elaborate the magnet system is it could be made to be really hard to detect.  And since most displays of the live feed aren't really very HD the magnets wouldn't even have to be all that elaborate.  If there were a trusted 3rd party inspection service that would make the tables more trustworthy.  I don't trust roulette any ways.  There are other games to play with better odds to win.

I think they can be rigged but unless you have a way of manually checking the roulette wheel you can't say which site is cheating and which are not. These are some of the ways they can be rigged: http://www.winning-roulette.net/cheat.php

But this article might be old and they may very have better ways of doing it. When you're playing at Online Casinos there's always a chance that the house might cheat which is why bitcoin gambling is based on a provably fair system but if a site is not offering any ways of checking the rolls then just stay away from it.

I hate this argument because it is flawed. Anywhere there is money to be made, people try to gain an edge. Even if the edge is illegal. Look at sports, insider trading, ponzi schemes, and the list goes on and on. Many times they don't need it to gain an edge because they already have an edge. But they want an even bigger edge.

Physical roulette wheel can be rigged but if it is a licensed live game provider than the risk of it being rigged is close to zero. There is monthly inspection for all the game to ensure fairness for the players but the operator of the roulette could be train to land the ball in some areas.

Not to mention that if you are seeing that the wheel if only in favor of the several areas than the wheel is biased (which is not rigged ) but it happened due to being used several times. Here is a way to check if the wheel is biased or not http://www.roulette30.com/2010/04/concept-of-biased-wheel.html

P.S : it will need like 1000 attempts though


The odds are always against us but it doesnt mean that the players "will always" to the game


Even if you do have a chance to manually check the roulette it will be impossible for you or me ( the ordinary people ) to know if the wheel is rigged


The same thing applied to site with provably fair system but it will be harder for them to cheat with the provably fair system. In licensed casinos there will be always a monthly inspection for the game to ensure it is fair for the players but ofcourse the house could just bribe the inspector for that

Yes of course only had that a few times unfortunately and I always tip well lol It is just the casino I play at the floor manager watches the guys like a hawk no shit he is really on the ball and if one spins to many 'fortunate' for the gambler then he is changed for another. The part about the 5 whales as an example, if I am at the table and see this and clock on to the betting and what the croup is doing I will bet against the whales and it does work a lot of the time.

The thing with magnetic movements is that they usually will have to employ some strong force on the ball, for the reason that if they wish to stop a ball at a place other than near a group of numbers, then they will have to slow down the ball, and applying a large magnetic field on it. Doing so will clearly bend the ball inwards, as it usually spins away from the wheel initially, and that unexpected movement will become fairly well visible to the eye .
Also , this actually would mean sensing what is the approximate position for the ball to stop at, and all that is pretty hard to implement. However, I am not sure of it myself, but just don't expect casinos to be using a magnetic system.

Thanks for all the replies guys . :) All of you were very helpful

Forgot to ask are there any other sites you people will recommend for live Roulette ? I couldn't find many.

For live betting would suggest check out Cloudbet or Mbit. There are also couple others you could just google for.

I did look at mbit but it seems it is linked to cloudbet. They have same dealers and everything . Even interface was almost same.

Yes, thats because the live room they host are the same . There are also many other sites which essentially has the same room, but the sites are different. They just rent the live feature from these companies.
EDIT: If you want another site with a different live table or room then check out Jetwin. They have a different live betting room .

Alright thanks will see if it is good.