Bitcoin Forum

This asshole Lawsky laid a very complex minefield of bullshit http://www.coindesk.com/lawsky-consult-digital-currency-nydfs (http://www.coindesk.com/lawsky-consult-digital-currency-nydfs) regulations.  Now, he wants to quit his government job and have you hire him so he can take tons of money from your company to navigate through the mines he laid!!   Please don't hire this guy.  Talk about abuse of a government job.  

well although i agree that he built the walls and now wants to charge people a fee to enter through the only hole in the wall...
.. what it does show is that a guy that is/was involved in FIAT law, wants to join the bitcoin community..

i read this as a good thing, as he knows that bitcoin would be a success compared to fiat, otherwise why get involved to such an extent that he is willing to make a life changing career change.

"he is willing to make a life changing career change" - actually, people I know have told me that his bosses are furious that Antonopolis said in one of his speeches that 'bitcoin companies are already leaving New York because of Lawsky's department'.  In other words, he is not willing to change career - he got fired for making a raging mess of this department which has companies fleeing the US (i.e. Xapo most recently).  He was sacked for shit performance.

Even though I understand why you are upset, I will explain this to you from a businessman's point of view.

I have a business that is involved in crypto.
There are rules I have to follow and holes I can go through.
Who do I hire to walk me through?

The guy that made it all  ;)


Keep in mind: Everything is all about business.
Making money and establishing a high position.
That includes religions as well.

Lawsky creates all these crazy laws with the idea he can have a job later.  The result: Xapo, Antonopolis, others all leave the US.  Lawsky is an asshole for putting such a huge burden on bitcoin community, so he can have a job, at the expense of the community leaving New York.  For every dollar Lawsky made for himself, he cost the community $10,000.  Now, your explanation tells why Lawsky did it.  I know why he did it - 'its just business'.  
When a theif steals a $1000 car stereo and sells it for $100, he does 10:1 damage:gain.  How much damage did Lawsky actually do in order that he have a sweet consulting lawfirm job after leaving government?  100:1?; 1000:1; 10000:1 - at some point you've got to complain.  'Its just business' isn't a sufficient explanation.  

I heard about Xapo but I didn't know Antonopoulos left the U.S.
Any idea of where he relocated?

Once again, I understand why you are upset.
But let me ask you this:
What do you plan on doing about it?
"Bitching in forums" isn't sufficient to stop what has been happening ever since money was invented ;)

You might be wrong.  This forum is bigger than any other in the bitcoin community.  Getting people motivated against this activity taken up by US regulators and reminding them that everyone is leaving in earnest can make them think twice about overly regulating an important community.  NY may have choked the life out of young bitcoin startups, but silicon valley/ California still has some chance to go a different direction.  Popular opinion does matter.  Bitching in forums can move popular opinion. 

Yeah, he is a senator in Canada now.

I have to agree with the OP. This is very unethical to have insisted on a bunch of laws then quit and offer yourself as a way to navigate the same laws. It happens a lot in government, but there really should be a rule about waiting two years or so.
It is very bad in the military. Countless officers nearing retirement help contractors to get at tax payer money under the assumption that they will be given a "job" when they leave the military.

Sounds like a good ole case of crony capitalism.

Buddy has a point though..

What are you going to do about it? Nothing, I thought so.  Not that I am but still.

I completely agree but what can we actually do?  This is why I veiw the entire population except those born into owning Central banks salves of those that are.  Royal bankers rule this world.  Bitcoin is like the gun in france in the late 1700's...

UK is already bent on sticking it up NY/Lawsky's ass.  http://www.coindesk.com/will-the-new-uk-government-create-a-bitcoin-hub/  (http://www.coindesk.com/will-the-new-uk-government-create-a-bitcoin-hub/) The problem is, Lawsky doesn't think it is late.  But so many US companies are already long gone and busy setting up shop in Singapore, Zug, others - just because Lawsky thinks he must put his flashlight up everyone's butt to see what is up there.  OP has a point.

I agree OP.  But this is just standard operating procedure.  This is why our economy is such a mess for everyone except the elite.  I suggest everyone go watch a movie called "inside job", it takes a microscope to the 2008 meltdown.  Interesting, if infuriating.

The thing is that we CAN do something about it.  If companies like Xapo refuse to be extorted and instead leave the country then that sends a big message to regulators.  As consumers we can refuse to use U.S. based companies.  Harsh, but this is the opening salvo in an ongoing war. 

Regulation can be a good thing (see: the food industry) however it must be done by ANYONE except a lawyer.

i don't think that the government would care if someone leave their country, unless they all do it, and as a result the whole country might die basically, but this isn't something that can happen ever, and many people actually don't care, as long as they have no problem and their life is quiet

And yet people continue to give these people power through their tax dollars.

Giving someone power then getting upset with them for abusing it is not the path forward. The first step is to figure out how to stop giving them power.

You lost me at "New York...".

To be fair there are other 49 states beside NY... Granted, other states expect to follow NY BL rules to some degree but I do not think all this is final and hostile. Besides, with how corrupt this sounds, I would rather have these ex-regulators consult bitcoin side of enterprise rather than team up with Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

Is it right or wrong for his behavior? I am a little confused about the motion. Maybe it shows that he looks for further increase of Bitcoin.

For those states that choose not to use a version of bitlicense there will be new opportunities.
Eventually this should lead to NY reconsidering their stance.

voice or exit?

use bitcoin properly and you don't have to worry about corrupt regulators or burdensome, bad, over-reaching regulations ... if you are you are doing it wrong.

The regulations are clearly designed to keep Bitcoin on the fringes. Bitcoin can't win if there's not a level playing field and fiat isn't hard to obtain, you don't need to track capital gains, and you don't need a Bitlicense on top of the standard retail license to accept it. Game, set, and match.

You're going to see this times 51 >> http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2015/05/25/nc-considers-regulating-bitcoin-virtual-currencies/27912079/

Yeah. The US is turning into kind of byzantine backwater with all its mind-bending bitcoin and monetary regulations ... it's the general obsession with money, status, envy and control taken into the digital realm I guess.

But then how do you manage to do anything at all without micromanaging everything? There is a reason government exists - you can't have individuals vote on every single proposal, every single time a new one pops up. Theoretically, that would be the best as power would reside with society and not a select handful. However, who really would have the time to read newly drafted bills over and over again? Who would be educated enough to make a proper analysis? It's easy to say - but the reality is, is that power structures like government exist as a band-aid solution they don't fix these underlying issues but they are the best solution we currently have.

Fucking unbelievable!!  Now they are even going after Europe's criminals?!  FIFA gets busted by US cops!!!!  Doesn't Europe have their own FBI and court system?  US thinks they fucking own EVERYTHING!!!  ASSHOLES!!

You see this everywhere...  We had a instance like this where the main negotiator for a union signed off on a crazy low increase and benefit agreement with the employer, and two months after that, he got a executive post in the company he fought against in the negotiations.

The employees were fooled to believe, that the agreement was done in their best interest... but the negotiator from the union got the biggest prize.

The company saved millions by offering him a executive post and paying much less in salaries and benefits.

Money corrupts, we deal with it every day.  >:( >:(

It's stories like these, you hear them everywhere now, that make you wonder how long until assassination markets spring up ...  :( Natural justice has a way of taking over when the department of justice is broken and corrupted.

Yep thought exactly the same thing when i heard the news. I like how he just goes from a gov job to slide nicely into a private sector job.  Since they like making rules in gov they should have a 5 year waiting period rule for that kinda move.  That would be fair, if you want to serve the public then you cant do it for financial benefit.

You can have people voting on every single proposal that affects them. With their bitcoins.

Gavin is the first in line to kiss his ass.

he's just trying to 'regulate' the little guy out of existence .. he wants only big banks and corporations and Wall Street to be able to play the game.  Impossible for anyone else to open a bitcoin business in NYC

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/business/dealbook/new-york-regulator-announces-final-rules-on-bitcoin.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/business/dealbook/new-york-regulator-announces-final-rules-on-bitcoin.html?_r=0)

Too late Lawsky - everyone already left the United States - they don't like having their government's head up their ass all day long.  London is making a nice home for all cryptocompanies.

When someone does fraud, bust them with 'fraud' laws.  When someone does theft, bust them with theft laws.  Schrem and Ulbricht will tell you the laws are working just fine.  Bitcoin doesn't need more specialized bullshit rules to hinder small companies ability to innovate.  When idiots break laws, use the old laws to hang them - not a bunch of new crap that nobody can figure out.  

Bye-Bye Lawsky - good riddance.  I will laugh if someone hires you as their crypto-law consultant now.  What a joke.

The whole point is that it doesn't fall under state control. Those guys still control the Internet and would probably see Bitcoin as  "major threat".

I disagree with you... If it was deemed a threat, it would be banned. The state already have the same control over Bitcoin as it has control over fiat. They just regulated it enough, to enable them to know who they dealing with. {In the USA they force you with these regulations to divulge your identity and link it to your Bitcoin address.. KYC/AML} So they know how the money is being used and where it's going.

They have even less control over fiat.

Bitcoin, applied in this context, are no threat at all.... It's acctually a tool for them, to legally intrude on your privacy.

In countries where less regulations are forced onto citizens, people tend to misuse the currency more for criminal intent. I hate these regulations, and the applications in many countries are overkill in the extreme.

Atleast with these regulations, governments do not outright BAN crypto currencies and that is a good thing.  >:( >:(

but this is only working if the user , dump his coins in any exchange, not everybody deal with exchange, some are spending their bitcoin offline, by dealing with another human, those are basically unregulated, the same as find big amount of money on the street and use them

https://twitter.com/TheRealMage/status/601593926202580992

My feelings on this, which is the same as most im sure. Tweeted a few weeks ago.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/03/benjamin-lawsky-bitcoin/

Now the asshole says he won't work on anything related to his work at NYDFS - but here is the services he offers:



OK - sure Lawsky.  That doesn't have anything to do with what you did at NYDFS.  $100 says this guy will be doing cryptocurrency advising for a big company in less than 6 months.  What a joke.  Government abuse.  Now, there is a god-damn mine field left by this guy and bitcoin companies are leaving the US and NY because of it.  

What a dick.

OP has a very valid points. These people keep on trying to regulate something impossible to regulate and they want to impose laws only they know how to divert... Stupidity at its finest.

We could vote for the republocrats, they'll fix it.  ;)

Best thing to do is just what ShapeShift did and what Xapo did.  Get the fuck out of NY.  Quit doing business with New Yorkers.  

Bitcoin out of New York!!!!

New York jews have long believed they have the right to be in complete control of everyone's money.  Jews love control of money.  So, just don't deal with those New Yorkers who love regulating other people's financial activity.  

This is insane.  Bitlicense is just an enormous flashlight being shoved up our asses by the government to find out if it is dirty up there. 

When people use bitcoin to launder money - bust them for that.  When people use it to defraud, prosecute them for fraud.  Why the hell put heavy steel shackle and chains on a tiny baby?  The cops aren't having any difficulty going and finding the bad guys.  Most of them are already in jail : Karpeles, Shrem, Ulbrict. 
Now, good decent law abiding companies are running from the US and going to bitcoin friendly UK.  I've got a feeling NY is going to pay dearly for this very dumb move. 

I don't know what's he up to with this move, but boy, did he f**ck up in NY!! State of New York could have been a crypto and Bitcoin capital region of the world with all of the start ups and companies that would be located there and now they are all gone. What short-sighted moves did he make there, that's really unbelievable.

And now to see that he wants to join Bitcoin community, this is really weird to me!

These assholes don´t even try to understand what digital currency can mean for all of us!
FU+´/ª~++** puppets, they always run to protect others interests...

except Jeron - he decided to stay and kiss their asses.  His company will shrivel up and die try to suck up to Lawsky and the Feds.  Otherwise sensible bitcoiners only see NY in the rearview mirror.  Some people I know were setting up a massive operation in NYC just when all this hit, they as SOOOOO grateful they caught wind early and packed it up.  Saved them a nightmare.  Those who stayed in NYC - can pay the price.  

You just can't stuff an enormous regulation nightmare down the throats of tiny young technology companies.  Lawsky is an idiot to think this was helping anyone.  

Oh well.  History is done.  NY is out as a Bitcoin option.
 

Well, I guess we predicted this...
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exchanges-kraken-and-bitstamp-cut-services-in-new-york/?utm_content=buffer254ca&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exchanges-kraken-and-bitstamp-cut-services-in-new-york/?utm_content=buffer254ca&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

The exodus continues.  Nobody can afford Lawsky's bullshit.  How out of touch can one possibly be? 

Well this is awkward.....https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric/status/630309296245489664


Bitstamp will be applying for it.

Those regulators are on a "paycheck" list, they do what they tell them or they are replaced by somebody who compiles. They aren't dumb, they know really well what bitcoin is but they don't have a choice. They do what they tell the to do.

All they will accomplish with stuff like BitLicense is emptying wherever the implant the license at off any Bitcoin ventures. Everyone is already evacuating NYC like if it was plagued by a virus. Ben ruined NYC from being the capital of BTC in the future. What a jackass.

That is not true, not everyone is leaving NY. Those who left/are leaving just thought that NY wasn't profitable/worthy to operate in.

Yeah, it's not so black and white.
Gotta say tho, I'm impressed to see some resistance for a change, instead of just bending over like business usually does.

LOL!  This guy (Comptroller Thomas Curry ) is brilliant - but far too late.  
http://www.coindesk.com/us-bank-regulator-calls-for-balanced-bitcoin-oversight/ (http://www.coindesk.com/us-bank-regulator-calls-for-balanced-bitcoin-oversight/)

Lawsky already has heavy burdensome law in place - his flashlight is well up everyone's ass (ask Jaron) - companies (Xapo, Bitstamp, Kraken, many others) HAVE ALREADY LEFT!!,  and now this guys says: "he called for regulators to avoid crafting overly burdensome rules that could stifle otherwise productive work on financial technology"


LOL!!!  American government.  Idiots!!  


Laws against fraud work with Bitcoin - ask Trendon Shavers.
Laws against money laundering work with Bitcoin - ask Charlie Schrem
Laws against drug pushing work with Bitcoin - ask Ross Ulbricht

Why does Lawsky think it is OK to crush small bitcoin operators with ridiculous expensive registration schemes - which do nothing but push good people out of NY and out of US?  Holy crap.  Mistake of the century for people in the US.  Next thing they ought to outlaw TV remote controls.  WTF?

Bureaucrats create more bureaucracy for the same reason that ticks suck blood, its their way of life, they are parasites

Then others have to waste time too, to comply or avoid the regulation. There are experts that claim that up to 80% of all the hours we work/spend are so called "useless work", and I tend to believe that.

 >:( >:( >:(

TSA in American airports spend enormous amounts of money 'looking for bombs'.  Recent tests showed more than 90% of test contraband easily passed into secure areas.  TSA does nothing but make people think airports are secure.  They sure as hell don't stop bad stuff from passing.  While TSA is very annoying, they are not making an entire industry turn and put the US in the rearview mirror.  I can live with TSA - dumb and wasteful as they are.  

Lawsky's Bitlicense made it clear to Bitcoiners - if you are going to do anything, don't do it in the US.  You might just end up in a jail cell next to Schrem, Ulbrict or Shavers.  


Fuck

That is the US government.  They piss out the campfire.  Someone tells them it was for cooking dinner.  Then they say: 'hey, let's build a fire!' 

Stupid fuckers don't realize it is too late.

This sounds fairly normal considering the state of the US's attempt to regulate Bitcoin. They fear any changes that can occur with the current system, and so they attempt to discourage people fromm using it. Then, when it actually turns out to not be a bad idea, they say exactly what you said.

Kind of a shame that's how politics works. I personally believe we need more open-minded individuals in the government, but what do I know :P

This is why Donald Trump is going to be the next president.  People are tired of politics bullshit.  Double speak is as bad as double spend.  While Donald Trump is a wild man with his bullshit, he sure doesn't talk like a politician.  It would be funny if he wins.  I wonder what he thinks of bitcoin.  He sure as hell likes money.

I hope you aren't using these people as examples of martyrs, because if these are the best examples anyone can come up with Crypto's are doomed  ::).

I'm not American, but I kind of want Trump to win, for the same reason that you're talking about. It's nice that he speaks his mind anyways, instead of being worried with political correctness.

"Can't stump the Trump!"