Bitcoin Forum

When Gavin went to see the CIA, do you think they turned him? Is this why Satoshi left? Maybe this has been USA's plan from the beginning, which is why they don't fear BTC. Gavin is on a secret mission to tear the community into two; thus the death of bitcoin from the core v XT debate.

Thoughts? I'm genuinely worried what this will do to bitcoin, I don't know if I should dump or not. If Gavin goes to XT, does that mean we're all bag holders of a worthless altcoin, or is XT considered an altcoin? What is real anymore?

You win USA. Bitcoin is a failure; that was a smart move from the CIA. Checkmate, Satoshi.

no read the other thread about no-sense chain a and b, only one in the end will be operative, and you will not lose your coin, it's like a standard client upgrade in the end, so don't be stupid and don't dump anything

I'am the only one surprised about this thread guys ? when the hell Gavin went to see CIA  ???
Also Bitcoin is not a failure , it's still working and al ot of people are earning money for now , and it will probably stay this way

Yeah well actually he is a space alien in disguise.

But seriously this whole thing is blown out of proportion.  Please check out this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1075510.0  There is an interview with Gavin in there and he explains a lot of things about the 20mb blocks.  After you listen to that you will want to hold your coins.  Maybe.

Gavin working for the CIA? Nope
Did he go there to explain the concept and to reduce the misconceptions that there might have been about Bitcoin? Yes, I think he did.
If you are identified or linked to any possible threat against the USA, you will be "pulled in" to state your case.
In the beginning a lot of agencies, who did not understand the technology, might have perceived this as a threat, and he willingly went there to explain the technology. That is my take on it.

After studying history of the USA I would not be surprised
AT ALL

He's not really undercover if he's made threads about it on the forum ;)

Gavin's visit to the CIA: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=6652.0

Lets not forget his visit to the Council on Foreign Relations:

You guys watch a lot of TV.  :D

I think the same. They planted Gavin here very early on and then killed Satoshi. To destroy Bitcoin was planned from the beginning.

Bitcoin doesn't go on Tv silly the CIA won't allow that :D

Gavin is Satoshi!

http://up.picr.de/22104463cx.jpg

STFU and GTFO

lol  :D

thats part of the bitcoin story. maybe after 7777217777 times of telling this story satoshi will appear again.

This sounds like shit Alex Jones would say. I think the guy is genuine and he wants to keep Bitcoin alive and decentralized. Now if that is the best solution or not is yet to be seen. But we don't have many options until 2016 when then it will be a gamble to see what happens once we reach 1MB of stress.

58% believe he's a mole... interesting ...

Isn't 51% considered 'consensus' these days?

LOL, yep. We have a mind fork!

not in the bitcoin world, you need 90%


why destroy something that can give you plenty of money? no-sense

It deff seems like everyone has an agenda.

I heard they shackled Gavin in a room with all kinds of pulsating lights and techno music until his ears started bleeding to turn him.  He held out longer than any top dog CIA officials thought he would. :p

Sounds like a Die Antwoord concert

You need a new account MR. CIA shill. This one was burned in the fork dicussion. You're a known ugly Gavin-shill. Best to stop posting with that account.

Bingo...as a matter of fact the 'secret put him under phrase' is:
"I Fink your Sexy and I like you alot!!"

I think it is possible. CIA had interest in Bitcoin pretty early for a reason and they could've seen the need to take control at an early stage, before someone else does it. It's not even about what they can do at that moment, but what might be possible in the future. I also think, they have pretty good arguments to convince people to keep things secret, so Gavin will not come back from the meeting and tell everyone "Hey, I am working with the CIA now and we are working on some cool exploits now", but he will continue working as usual until the CIA wants to change the parameters. Maybe they found an exploit, that will only work when the Blocksize is bigger? That could be the reason for Gavin's overreaction, when many people questioned his idea. Speculation, but makes sense to me....

edit: The CIA knew about Bitcoin about that time of the Wikileaks story in 2010. At that time they wanted to stop Wikileaks from recieving donations. They shut down their Visa and PayPal and as a reaction Wikileaks started to accept Bitcoin. Now what would the CIA do then to stop Wikileaks? Satoshi didn't like the hype, because of the bad image and he thought it was too early for Bitcoin to get media attention. When the CIA contacted Gavin, they were not only trying to understand the technical aspect of Bitcoin, but they wanted control over the whole damn thing.

So you really think, the CIA contacted Gavin in 2011 only to get a quick lession in Bitcoin and that was it?
Don't you think they wanted to stop Wikileaks from getting donations?
Now if the only donations possible were in Bitcoin, don't you think they can come up with the idea to take control over a developing global currency or at least to be able to stop the donations?

I love how we use a vote to determine the truth. lol It's how scientists figured out the world is flat.

@kingcolex
How about you just stop posting on the thread, bro? You're annoying as fuck.

It's a barren thing to discuss with you.

Well a discussion has always more than only one point of view. If he is shill, ok good for him. Maybe he is Gavins buddy or Gavin himself. Possible that he is a CIA shill or whatever. We are here to discuss this topic and when he is able to convince me with better arguments, it's ok with me. My point of view is, that it is quite possible, that the CIA finds Bitcoin important enough to take control over it. What is better for this goal to get the main developers into the team?

It all depends on what you think Bitcoin should be. Bitcoin cannot be all things to all people, IMO. Gavin wants it to something, others don't want to go that route. It is interesting situation.

Just two links about the reason why the CIA wanted to know about Bitcoin:

20.04.2011:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0509/technology-psilocybin-bitcoins-gavin-andresen-crypto-currency.html

14.06.2011
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/06/14/wikileaks-asks-for-anonymous-bitcoin-donations/

+1

Overwhelmingly the users of the forum agree with this statement. We are fast approaching the death of bitcoin. It is being killed from within.

We have actually a consensus on it (since 51% around here is obviously a consensus already)!

Cool.  See you all in Litecoin.

I don't understand, why the involvement of the CIA = death of Bitcoin
The source code is still open and everybody can get involved. Why not the CIA?

If you haven't noticed. 90% of bitcoiners hate the government (I'm in the other 10%). This destroys any confidence in the system. There are hundreds of alt coins but none are as big as bitcoin because they lack confidence.

open source = success?

 :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

Logic right there... Who will support anything bitcoin when this stupid shit happens? Bitcoin is trying to solve something that doesn't need solving. Have fun with your worthless sea shells.

Please refrain from crude language. Your motives are clear after reading your post history. Thanks for the laugh before though, next time i want to be successful, I'll just open source it.

Where would most of you guys be without your government that protects your ass? There are some nice countries in the world that show, how things go when the government is incapable. Life looks so easy, when everything is in balance and you have your fridge filled, but history has shown countless times, that things can change rapidly...

There is a huge difference between consulting with the CIA and working for them. In those days MANY of these "hackers" were Anti-government or Anti-regime. They worked underground on projects to communicate privately {Anon-mailers and PGP encryption ... real 007 shit}

A project like Bitcoin would have flagged a lot of attention and the CIA would do anything to get there hands on the people behind this project.

I think, and this is my opinion... Gavin got flagged and he decided that it would be better to communicate with them directly. You do not want to be red flagged by these people... He went there to state his case and to clear the air.

If I was put in the same situation, I would most probably have done the same. {It will be bad for you to get a internal exam, every time you fly from one city to the next}  ;)

Go there... explain things and go on with your life.  ::)

True; or not.
This conversation is not helpful (even if the results are interesting).

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Given a healthy forum of debate, any ulterior motives should emerge.
Alternatively, logic bereft of ulterior motives should emerge.

A well-researched solution(or lack thereof), supported by more than political arguments, is the only logical way forward.

---

TL;DR

- Proof the problem.
- Proof various solutions.
- Choose a solution (or multiple solutions, leaving the choice to consensus).

the problem is that you can't do a consensus, if you think that thwse joke poll can do it...., there must be an option in the client so every node can vote for future upgrade/fork, right now it is just a mess, you do not know who want to follow that specific path and who not

The poll is indeed a "joke".

I disagree that:

I did not mean "social consensus".
I meant "software consensus".

In the end, there WILL be consensus. 
That consensus may leave two networks; but, it will be maintained.

No need for a "feature". 
The client is specifically designed to maintain consensus.
Users vote via running a client that maintains consensus with the network they agree with.

Alternatively, you could split the pubKey space and count chickens.

I mostly agree with you, but there are some things to add:

- Most of these "hackers" from the early days are either dead, in prison or they are now working with the once hated government.

- I don't believe, that the communication between Gavin and the CIA is limited to this one known occasion like you said "Go there... explain things and go on with your life." I don't believe, that Gavin told us everything about later corrospondence and he has a right to do that in my opinion. Like Gavin said "it's the nature of the beast": everyone can make part of Bitcoin and as long as you get a majority your fork will win the race.

If I could vote for which of the big players will fork Bitcoin it would rather be Europe or USA than any other.

I wonder when these gavin-tards get it that Bitcoin is not broken and running fine. It is a rule of complex system to not change them when they are not broken. There is currently a consensus for 1MB blocks else the network would not be running.

The anti-20MB people have to prove nothing and also have to deliver nothing. All they have to do is tell the reasons for the veto and that's it. There is consensus for Bitcoin as is today else it would not be running. If you want to change it you need consensus. If you get a veto (which you did) then there is no consensus on a change and you need to accept that.

After getting a veto for your proposal you have two options:
1) producing a better proposal which will not get a veto
or
2) leave the group (bitcoin in this case)

that is how consensus principle works if you like it or not. There is even more sophisticated methods of approaching consensus but since you are all behaving like apes i'm not even trying.
It's not like consensus democracies would be something new or something. They are just not as commen and people generally have no idea about it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5146TA6KXSL.jpg

Here's the real reason: Manchurian Candidate. Gavin is NSA. There is distinction. CIA does the thinking, NSA carries out their plan. They're trying to stockpile funds to put their libertarian presidential candidate into office.

I'm surprised that the Gavin shills haven't skewed the voting to 'No' yet  ::)

I think everyone in this forum except me are CIA mole. Get out

As someone who grew up in a family of actual government operatives, I assure you this is comedy gold to them.

Gavin is a CIA agent.  Buwahahahah :D

I'm voting yes. A poll. OMG hahahah.

The only reason why I (slightly) humor conversations of this nature, CIA etc.....is because of the name Satoshi Nakamoto.

At least according to name translations, the name itself Satoshi Nakamoto loosely translates to CIA.

Satoshi translating to "wise, intelligent" (via most any baby naming website)
Nakamoto translating to "central" (again baby naming websites, even geneology.com)

Loosely CIA would fit those translations "theoretically".

I just always though Satoshi N. was a very interesting choice for handle or name.

I have no opinion really on Gavin. Just looking at the bigger picture here. I don't think anyone could really know obviously.
On the flip side, would it matter?

Theoretically, If Gavin were CIA dude - what would that mean or what would the effect on the bitcoin world be? What's the intention?

Im gonna go ahead and say, Gavin prob isnt CIA.
CIA would not want so many people using bitcoin - it dilutes the population with legit users making monitoring whoever even harder.
does that make sense?

This is very true. It should also be noted that large governments (primarily the US government) plays a large role in keeping the world a (somewhat) safe place so even if there is no/little government where you live, a government is still going to be protecting you.

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No Gavin is not a CIA agent. Even if he was Bitcoin is open source and several people have looked at it's source code for any backdoor/spyware/ect. and has found none

I speak and read some Japanese and that translation is not correct.

聡中本 is a normal name in Japan. The first word "Satoshi" is something like "wisdom". A bit like "Sophia" in Greek. But the second name is made from two characters that imply "inside origin or inside beginning". The first Character is 中. This is a mouth with a line going inside. The second (moto) 本 depicts a tree with it's roots highlighted. Just as in English the roots imply origin of or the start of something.
It is a bit subject to interpretation as it is not an alphabetic language. But mostly it is a name like Dale Winston. Not the most common name, but not uncommon.

You can also see this in the name ( 東京日本). The first caracter shows a tree with the sun rising behind it. So you must be looking "East" the second is an imperial lantern that means "Capitol". So the first word is Tokyo or eastern capitol. The next word is Japan. There is the square "sun" again but this time followed by "Origin". So Japan means origin of the sun. Or land of the rising sun.  

Do they know that you spend a great deal of time on an anarchist forum chatting about the end of the fiat world? Bitcointalk in a nutshell?

Yes. Despite my constant pointing out the silliness of many conspiracy theories I am actually fairly radical. I just don't go in for theories when there are plenty of documented facts about the government's misuse of authority. For example I saw no mention here of the "American Freedom Act" that past yesterday. Even with a name straight out of a George Orwell book, it sailed through with no public outcry. Only Rand Paul held, and was abandoned by his own party.

My Dad served in the FBI and from what I have seen I believe they would only get involved if:
(A)There were a bunch of complaints about specific people or a business.
(B) The specter of terrorists or pedophiles is brought up. That get's everyone going.  ::)
(C) It was part of a larger operation. Like say a money laundering scheme.

Honestly, at the institutional level I think they know very little about bitcoin. Which is not a good thing. Misunderstanding bitcoin is what leads to stupid draconian laws and a perception of BTC as criminal in nature.


   

I thought he was from NSA?
His real name is: "David Andersen"  https://www.nsa.gov/research/_files/selinux/papers/policy2/b908.shtml


ps: This's a troll post, don't care much.

I think the trolls who post FUD on here constantly have got more chance of being CIA operatives... or are being paid by the CIA or some other government agency to Astroturf.

Indeed. The NSA and CIA has their own signature campaign going, except the FUDsters don't have a signature and they get posted by amount of people trolled per FUD thread :D

The started to get involved after Wikileaks accepted Bitcoin donations and they wanted to cut off their money supply.

Gavin's comments on the LTB podcast #217 (iirc) are very telling.  He implies that people would be more worried if other governments than their own had some control over Bitcoin.  This is utterly dead wrong in my case and probably in the case of many others who had an early interest.  I personally don't give two shits about whether Russia or China spy on me.  They have very limited ability to manipulate my life and unlikely to care enough to try.  My own government, OTOH, is a completely different matter.  The main problem with Russian and China spying on me is that they may (and likely do) horse trade the data to my own government where it has the potential to do me harm.

Gavin loves big brother.  Whether he works for them because he loves them, or whether he loves them because he works for them, or (the most likely scenerio) that he is a mainstream conformist who simply loves big brother because it's his nature is unimportant.  The fact is that he does, and that fact alone should eject him from any significant role in any worthwhile effort.

I seriously doubt he's a CIA mole ..

I wouldnt be surprised if Gavin received a letter from the NSA .. though I seriously doubt he's 'undercover' for the CIA lol

I found your question strange. You are asking if her is a mole in CIA?  That CIA thinks he works for them, but he works fro someone else?  This is job for counter intelligence service. I have no ideas how is called in USA. In UK is MI6.

I agree if he is mole in the CIA, he should be ashamed to work against his homeland.

The scary part is that if he is, there is nothing we can about it. They've won.

Not by a long shot.  Ultimately Hearndresen could be the best thing that ever happened for Bitcoin in certain somewhat non-intuitive ways.  His rather surprising actions have the potential to set off a chain reaction which offers Bitcoin it's best hope for enduring value (using the term broadly) and success.  Not on his XT fork of course.

I see what you mean ;), you could be right, time will tell.

Coincidence, right? I don't think so... Gavin will be paraded down the streets of Washington as a war hero after he succeeds.

Just as an aside, I have a proposition of sorts that I'm developing.  It is this: The more widely ridiculed a 'conspiracy theory' is, the more it is worth analyzing as a hypothesis.  'fluoride in the water' and 'tinfoil hats' are classics.

Turns out that fluoride in the water is now pretty clearly associated with decreased cognitive function.  That from a Harvard review of research which came mostly out of China (interestingly, as one would expect it to have been studied significantly by countries which supplement their own water supplies.)  True, the concentrations needed to see statistical artifacts are above the level of treatment that we tend to uses in municipal water supplies, but by a factor which is really quite small considering the inherent difficulties of dosing by this method.

With respect to 'tinfoil hats', I doubt that I was alone as a reasonably scientifically literate person who was a bit surprised by these results:

  http://news.yale.edu/2014/03/25/yale-researchers-reconstruct-facial-images-locked-viewer-s-mind

Most of us know that sensors which can detect electromagnetic activity are becoming really sensitive as technology moves forward and the computer processing power needed to make sense of brain data is becoming immense.  It is really not to far outside the realm of possibility that fairly impressive 'mind reading' by 'them' could be possible.  Nor that a tinfoil hat could impact it.  Certainly not so far out that it warrants the traditional level of derision...though no where near likely enough to wear a tinfoil hat either.

As a function of my analyzing the hypothesis about 'mind reading', I do notice that it is very much in vogue for 'them' to try to get at least a little mercury into everyone's body relatively early in the game.  Pregnant women are highly encouraged to get flu shots now and they still usually contain mercury.  It used to be that back in the day a pregnant woman was supposed to avoid all medications if possible.  One the first day of life one shot is very highly pushed.  It is for hepatitis which can be caught almost exclusively by engaging in unprotected sex or sharing dirty drug needles...neither of which are likely for a new-born infant.  Almost all shots use aluminium as an adjuvant and have contents which weaken the blood brain barrier.  Of course these observations don't prove anything or even come close.  It's just interesting and fun (to me) to see if this rather mysterious use of vaccinations maps to a hypothesis about the practicality of mind control.  Actually, I would expect 'writing' to be more practical than 'reading' when it comes to metallic elements in the brain.

---

For the record, I consider the hypothesis that sinister use of fluoride in the water, or wide-spread mind reading (or behavior modification) or vaccines used to facilitate it are less likely than not, but I do not reject these hypothesis either.  I simply have no rational basis upon which to do so.

Option 1: Gavin suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder
Option 2: Gavin wants to attack Bitcoin for personal gain
Option 3: He works for the government

All of the above?

Well, nothing is impossible.

There are multiple ways the CIA or other government bodies might have influenced Gavin. Maybe through personal incentives, maybe through incentives regarding to their actions towards Bitcoin. Since Gavin is a rather conformist person, who exhibits an above average narcissistic personality trait and in general appreciates governance, it would be an easy task.

The most realistic scenario would be that government wants a (to a degree) controllable Bitcoin and therefore tries to foster the change from a decentralized Bitcoin to a Bitcoin working on a reduced number of supernodes that can be put under control or surveillance with limited resources.

That's all speculation, but after the Snowden revelations I would not be surprised at all if it's confirmed.

ya.ya.yo!

Another level of conspiracy theory  :o
He can work with CIA, but for what reason, noone will know.

there are way too many trolls, don't believe everything you hear. theoretically every one can work for the CIA or FBI, NSA or whatever. people like to talk about nonsense.

Theoretically everyone could work for the CIA, yes... but not everyone was invited by them to do a presentation and happily accepted...

To be clear: I'm not claiming that Gavin works for the CIA, but I think this speculation has at least some informational foundation.

ya.ya.yo!

I vote yes and he is PERSONALLY in charge of keeping an eye on all the bitcointalk members! :-) haaaa!!! ~ ROTFLMFAO

I'm not aware of having a hidden agenda. Are you a conspiracy theorist?

At least you openly admit that you're a proud homosexual scammer. That's true honesty. :D

ya.ya.yo!

What does CIA can get from Bitcoin? Maybe private information of bitcoin holders are not what they care about. The position of US is not steady as before, and do they worry about it? Or find out the ones who trade with bitcoin illegally for earning money by selling weapons? Yes, the motives are various. However, that depends on the motives of yourself by holding bitcoin. If it is legal,  you won't be held any cues to commit crime.

CIA and NSA controls bitcoin. You are all part of their trial phase social/economic experiment used to determine the viability of cryptocurrency, until they decide in the near future to unleash a much more advanced form of crypto based economic tool that they can control and direct based on all the references they are gathering now.

There. Happy?  :D

Pretty good, but it needs bigfoot. How could bigfoot factor into this? I know he's behind this somehow.

Nope it's not bigfoot.
Bitcoin was built by aliens originally (like Egypt Pyramids). This's why no one could ever find satoshi yet...
(He's now in a galaxy far far away)

That makes sense because bigfoot is an alien. Here is PROOF in the form of an episode of the six million dollar man. In this very episode bigfoot is discovered to be a bionic alien. It's all coming together.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZMn_711s4

I doubt it but he seems to be doing what governments do and thats scare the masses into following. i agree the blocksize needs to be increased but lets talk about it and not freak everyone out.

Third thread of this kind now. People seem to be interested in the topic.

Yes. Today I can confirm that from his actions and speech, something is very off with this fellow.

Mike and Gavin warned us of Cores takeover attempts on bitcoin and hardly anyone listened. Time to educate yourself instead of blindly spewing propaganda.

I seriously doubt that much of the meat and potatoes deep state stuff happens through the CIA in the modern age.

The CIA has been getting such an increasingly bad press for all their successful cover-ups that gradually unwound over the course of the 20th century that it make little sense to do much dirty work through the CIA these days. It's probably exactly like it is on Homeland and Meet the Parents/Fockers, lol

if Gavin Andresen works for any shady organisation, we probably don't who they are, or where their HQ is. "Knowledge is power", "we want information" etc

Why do you have to imply that he works for anyone but himself, his own vision? Read the post above you - it clearly says what the whole Gavin story has been about for 2 years now...

Now class, this is what we call an 'oxymoron'.

'Cores' are cores for the simple reason that for a long period of time in bitcoin-years they have demonstrated the skill and dedication that induces people to trust them.  If that could be said for Hearndresen then that mutation would be 'core' and the others would be goneski.

I've had my bouts of both delight and of hopelesness with the Bitcoin community.  Thankfully (and in fact surprisingly to me) the community consensus has arrived at pretty much the right point vis-a-vis who/what is 'core'.  At least it alligns pretty well with my tastes.  It's very likely that I would not be here now tapping this out should different decisions have been the consensus.  And I'm much more pleased than I thought I might be back in what are, to me, the early days.

is bitcoim a NSA/CIA projekt? and satoshi only the one who had the idea? which was than brought lo live by NSA/CIA

My current favored hypothesis is that Bitcoin was a result of the thoughts of one person known as Satoshi, and he was not working on the behalf of or for the corp/gov state.  At least not in his Bitcoin related work.  He (probably a male) did derive much motivation from earlier cypherpunk types who came pretty close to Bitcoin in some fundamental ways.

From thence, I feel that quite early on the CIA recognized the value of Bitcoin to various of their operations.  Probably right around the point when someone had the bright idea of bypassing the financial blockade against Wikileaks using it.  I consider the CIA to be on par with organized crime (and with large amount of cross-pollination.)  Their main function is as the muscle for the corp/gov owners (who are primarily bankers.)  Some say that the Jesuits serve a similar purpose in Catholicism, but I digress.  Anyhoo, I believe that the U.S. govt dropped their reflexive resistance to Bitcoin and became effective (if somewhat silent) supporters in the 2012 timerframe, and a good part of this would have been attributable to pressure from the intelligence community.

Obviously I could be dead wrong on any or all of these ideas.

Yes, then the FBI brought their drugs game into play, and both the NSA and CIA started seeding disinfo about encryption, and nobbled cisco, wintel and linux, all to get at our precious wallets.

satoshi is the living lord kind of the illuminati didnt u know? maybe thats why nsa and cia wrote btc for him and gavin was picked as puplic substitude so he works for cia
lol

edit: and since the cia is extremly satisfied with him he probally wont even get a pay check rofl