Bitcoin Forum

Hello,

How much btc do you think you need before you can move the price on a exchange?

Also is manipulation legal at bitcoin exchanger?

I'am pretty sure that normal people like us can't change the price that much or at all . Only exchanges do that as far as I know .
Or you can do that if you have a mining farm obviously after earning hundreds/thousands of Bitcoins .

You need a shit ton of dollars to move the price even for a little bit.. As for the price manipulation, I don't even know if its legal/illegal people

Will 1000 BTC be enough to move the price?

That's like 226 000$ , It's a huge amount and it may affect on the price but not that much as I said .
It's basically big exchanges who can do the real manipulations and price changes

10k BTC will be enough for a 10$ change, im sure it will end up in a 20$ change since we all panic either way it goes.

- Mayer Amschel

it depends on which side you want to move the price, for moving it down, you will need less then for moving it upward, basically pumping it is far more difficult

usually four zeroes are more than enough to do it in any direction

Just look at the order books.  This will give you a really good idea of how much you need to move the price in either direction.  But I am guessing that with bitcoin it would take a lot of money to move.

Also, when attempting to move a market there is a very high chance that it will not work. So perhaps 1000BTC will move it a bit, but you may just be throwing away a quarter of a million dollars.

You need incredible amounts of liquidity to move the market. Usually this would be a huge mistake, as moving against the market will surely fail. Remember the 30k bear whale on Stamp? He tried to hold the market down and failed miserably. Smart whales move with the market, not against it.

uff hard to say, because it depends on exchange dailys volume, but you can check it by yourselft, just look at esxchange volumen to see how many you need to change it ;)



the truth is that we dont want laws in BTC world ;)

the truth is that we dont want laws in BTC world ;)
[/quote]

But wont the exchanges, stop this?

Why would they? Bitcoin exchanges are barely regulated, and it would take regulators quite a lot of time to built any sort of enforcement effort in relation to an exchange.

So at the end of the day, no, exchanges won't do anything to stop would-be "manipulators".

1.Depends on what exchange you are aiming to manipulate, local smaller ones, or major exchanges with high volume, and also; for what time-range you want to move the price..
If you are asking about big exchanges, dont even think about it, even a large amount wouldnt buy you much time, thats why people work in large teams when trying to manipulate on such scale.

2.It's not illegal so far. When real regulation comes to place, it probably will be, but i doubt such thing will happen soon.

cheers

What ever that price is. But its better to exchange your coins when its price is more than you can get into signature campaign you joined must 5x more than .

some exchanges only need a few hundred coins to move it down. on exchanges like bitfinex you would need thousands of coins to achieve the same.

Hmm interesting, so lets say 10,000 bitcoin is enough to move to price around 10-20$?

yeah it should be more than enough, what will really trigger it is the panic buy caused by it, not the amount itself, well it's a bit of both, but if you can trigger a cascade, then you're done

whales move in group for this reason, it more easy for them to manipulate the market in group without  putting too much money

Well this whale group are well only hidden or just for the elites people with much money:)?

Just find the exchanger provide a massive trading amount everyday. As I know , the high volume exchanger were poloniex,bittrex, and Bter.

About manipulation, that's can't be done with one person. But it can be done with a group of whale trader

And its ok how much you will exchange and you can do that if you stored your coins and then exchange it.

you don't need to be in a group in order to manipulate the price. one person is enough. most important is to have loads of fiat and bitcoins.

You can make it on your own if you have enough knowledge about strategies how to make it or do it so you can earn more.

I think you need at least 20 000 K BTC to move the market.
Why it shouldn´t be illegal?

not really advisable, if you join a good professional group, you can invest much less, and the market will be manipulated in the same way, but with less risk from your side

But its so hard to find a professional group and hard to find to trust people, Yeah its a great help to less invest and less risk. but my opinion is its hard to trust people that you don't even know.

well trust here is build with confidence that you have at first, you initially invest a little, just in case..then you start to add more coin and so on, and don't forget that even if you are in a group you are still playing for your profit too, and not for someone else, they are just helping you to invest less and still manipulate the market

So you mean that invest small amount and then add coins in succeeding months. And also you mean that you should make a decision or a things that make your investment great.

how many bitcoins have been mined till the moment? soo lets say 10% of them would be enought to maybe change the price ,to manipulate it im pretty sure we will be talking about milions... soo till that happen we will have to wait a bit i guess ,btc is a good investment but can turn into risk if someone tryes to control it

we are at 14M, but bears in mind that you do not need 1.4M to manipulate the market, because there no exchange that is holding all the 14M coins, they are holding much less then that, so in the end it depends on the volume of the exchange too

small exchange are far easy to manipulate

yes that way small exchanges are getting a good investments,well how many still to be mined ? soo im pretty sure to affect the price it will be around 4%of total or more to make it raise easy

its generally groups of people working together, so you really just need to find one of those and contribute a few hundred or thousand btc

we can see on the last days whales making some coins raise in a short time ltc just doubled these days.... severtal coins getting pumped.... need to be part of the group if there is a group if they arent individual with huge ammounts of btc since no one knows how many btc the biggest wallet has ....

Yes but holding bitcoin or pumped it will affect its price. Mining are also affect of its price. And about the person who have a biggest coin in his/her wallet, i think more on that person is mining and also he/she may mined for company .

Holding and buying more

im pretty sure that some compaines sold some part of the btc wallets stored to pay bills others keep them safe ,we will see it explode on the next years....

Mining bitcoin is greatly affect the price, especially in the next year there will be halving,
and certainly there will be a rise in prices there bitcoin

You not only need the money but you need too use the money at the good moment for maximum effectiveness

Yes as day passes by the bitcoin are getting stronger than fiat money or banks , because its the easiest way to transact your money you don't need any paper to sign.

the 24 hour volume of bitcoin is usually between 10-20 million dollars. So no, the price won't be affected too much.

Imagine that every day people are buying 800k worth of dollars in new bitcoins just to keep the price steady.

For them its so easy to bough a bitcoin because they can bought it low and then sell it high repeatedly. So that they can easy to maintain the price of bitcoin.

Its really easy to manipulate the price at this low marketcap for big whales.

They dont even need a big amount of bitcoins, when they sell a little bit people will began to panic and sell everything they have and the price go down, its like on the stock market.

Anyone want to show this? I personally think it would take millions to move the market. It would only move it temporarily and by an unknowable amount. People with millions of dollars did not get rich  throwing money at a childlike scheme that could make some money, or lose some money. I think the effect of market manipulation is very greatly exaggerated.

This is a phenomena in many markets and has been studied by psychologists. People try to attribute random events to a conscious force.  So if the market goes down and Mr.X loses money he may be inclined to think someone did something to him rather than taking into account that the price change involved the actions of thousands of people acting in their own interests. 

well as others altcoins bitcoins can be manipulated down as above the big thing is to set up two walls one on buy and other on sell soo this way can be a pump as a dump anytime but well is risky to play on both sides

Doesn't have to be the case. It would be done same way altcoins are manipulated, but with way larger value. I don't think it's a risk to make large bitcoin dump these days,
because people react on price drops with a certain amount of panic, selling as a stop loss method, and during such a chain reaction of sells, the original dumper could re-buy lower and return to the game.
I can't say for certain that this is happening, noone can, but there are certain price movements that i can't explain otherwise, hence i tribute it to the manipulation.

cheers

well sure it can happen if lets say900 btc get on sale for 200 dollars several people will follow it as will be able to set some new orders expecting it to go lower then 200 dollars.

I will answer your second question, manipulations of bitcoin price is not legal and is not ethical, the market price tends to fall below expectations when you removed or withdrawn your investment after pumping it up.
This often makes the price of bitcoin to collapse due to lack of support funds.

I think BTC price is manipulated. Al the order books are fake and you need a huge amount of value to move all the important exchanges at the same time. One you did that, you get reactive effect but the timing is important!

Thats right its all depend on the trends of the market, you couldn't say that tomorrow the price of bitcoin will goes up or down because you don't have evidence that its make it happened. And yes its collapse when its lack with financial fund.

well it can be manipulated but has a huge ammount on it to be able to change it

It all depends on the volume of that exchange. I know in some small cryptocurrency exchanges one can manipulate the prices of some coins with under 10 btc but on bigger exchanges I would expect you would need several hundred if not more btc to drive the price of btc or any pair. Now there are gangs of whales that move in groups which makes the whole thing look a lot more sinister sigh.

i don't think so, it is that they are using bots all over the place, in every exchange, you can use your too, human trading is very rare nowadays

manipulation is there but to a much less extent than before

But more people are not believe in manipulation although its true, because they not thinking about how they are going to trade with high profit, they just only need is to trade with a profit not big not small its only enough.

nowadays there is a lot less manipulation, i think that's mainly due to the fact that traders are wiser. especially when good or bad news pop up and cause a massive price movement. news doesn't move markets anymore. that means that inside trading is less effective.

well there is around groups of whales ,they had joined to get profit much faster then before... they can easy up an altcoin in short time and left sell orders to others enter and they out.... its happening already

now there are many fake volume created in the exchanger, with a view to seeking a profit, and this is done by the sharks that work together, and usually the victims are traders without experience

I think that manipulate the BTC exchange is quite impossible by a single person.

Maybe within a group of 5-10 people with huge amount of money.. and trying to manipulate all exchanges

probably because there is also less interest in trading bitcoin at all, it could be the reason why the market is so stagnant lately

with greater manipulation, there should be greater up and down

Yes more people not using the method of manipulation because of their own reason, but its better to manipulate or you know how to manipulate so that you can follow the trend in the market and earn more.

well the manipulation happens in groups when did anyone saw 5000% up with lets say buy orders os 2 satoshis and sell at 10000 satoshis.... is very easy to find the manipulation on them ...bitcoin i believe can be affected but isnt soo easy even on small exchanges just small parts of bitcoins sold

Moving with the market actually means riding on the bodies of the majority.

A market mover will be one that is forced in a net position through the counter-party.

His net position will decide the outcome of his next move.

well to moove it there is a need of atleast 10% of the total coins running into the exchanges otherwise wont go anywhere  bitcoin is very powerful.