Bitcoin Forum

I see some users with positive trust or with a lot of good ratings even if they are on the untrusted feedback becayse they take loans. What are these guys using the loans for? Im not going to name anyone but i have seen someone taking around 10 loans in the last 2-3 months. Normally when you take a loan is because you really need that money to either buy something or invest in somethinf, taking loans every 2 weeks not worth more than 30-50$ its weird isnt it? It just makes me believe that they are doing it to get trust or to gamble, i dont see any other reason. Any opinions? I dont know if this is the right section

A lot of what I have been seeing is to pay a bill or something periodic but the loanee doesn't receive his paycheck until after the bill's due date. I think that some of this is BS and that the real reason is to be taking out a rep loan to gain reputation and positive trust.

Some is for gambling and some is for paying something which is due before they get some cash i guess

Loans for gambling is just as bad as taking loans to build rep, they are dangerous, you obviously have no guarantee when someone takes a loan for gambling and unfortunately a lot of people is giving loans without collateral which only leads to more possible scams.

Most of it is fake, where they don't even need the loan, but want to get positive feedback by repaying the loan (i guess more than 80% of the loans is like this)
Some people offer collateral in form of their account, and then they just don't repay, and go away to their another alt account.
And then there are real loans, where people need it for things they don't currently have the money for.

cheers

The loan section on here is an endless mystery to me.

If you have LTC or whatever alt as collateral, why don't you, er, sell it and not require to pay someone interest? It takes a few seconds on most exchanges.

Why would any lender accept an alt as collateral that could go up in smoke at any moment?

I think there must be a shit ton of unwritten rules that I'm not privy to.

if you sell your altcoin then you lost it but if you put give it collateral for loan then you get it back after you repay
and during this time if value of the altcoin rise then you make profit also but if you sell it then you won't able to take profit from price increase of that altcoin.

1. People have altcoins because it is their investment, and they dont want to sell it, and/or are scared that the altcoin will increase in price.
2. Lender accepts altcoins as collateral, but usualy it takes about 120% counter value, and if it drops in price, under pre arranged rule, lender reserves the right to sell collateral before loan expires to protect his interest. But that doesnt happen as often as one may presume.

cheers

Well i saw a lot of people saying that you do that when you think the price of that altcoin is going to increase and you want to buy more but to make that profitable you would need a big loan not 0.05 btc loans, somethig like 1-2 btc to be able to gain profit after fees and you dont know for sure how much the price will increase or if will increase at all, overall its a bad decision, back on my topic, i still think 90% of people who takes loans are either scammers, potential scammers or building rep

this is one of the reason why you can't trust no one, even trusted people, because some of them are building their trust like this, to scam later, there was some cases of this

i see also numerous person doing the same kind of trade with the same trusted guy, another ploy for building fake trust

Thats why i never trust anyone that has taken loans unless its a really big loan but still, when you take the loan you are not loosing anything and you cant lose anything so why should that person be trusted? You have to be really careful with the trust system and i feel a lot of people trust someone else just because they see green trust or trust at all

there's no doubt that a lot of it is simply padding trust. that's why, above a certain amount (.5-1 BTC) i would use escrow regardless of trust, because it really isn't that difficult to get a green trust account. people are definitely gaming the system.

You can also think of it this way; hero account with some trust makes about what? 0,5 btc or so ? Well, then make sure that active deals of that person, plus your deal if youre sending first; that they dont exceed
the 0,5 btc pricetag that account can have on marketplace. I doubt someone is going to scam someone for amount lower than what he can get for the account..
But you are right regarding the escrow; whenever you can, you should use it; better safe than sorry.

cheers

Yep, always use escrow but you should always ask for a signed message from the buyer/seller and the escrow since those accounts can be sold, i doubt a super trusted escrow account would be ever sold but someone with a little bit of green trust yes, i have seen many.

Nowadays lenders are always careful to issue out loans. The will check the loanee's reputation, posting history, loan requesting record, etc, to minimize the risk! And some rules are alway followed by them, such as "no collateral no loan for the low member users", collateral selection,  reputational escrow preference etc.

the most legit guy is probably the one that have the trust, that come from many different things(trading, selling stuff, helping someone ecc...), and from many different users, i'm not saying that it is trustable 100%, but it is more trusted than others, from a logical point of view

Good points! I just want to add one more point! The level you trust any member level of account should be limited no over than specific amount of bitcoin, which shouldn't be over the value of the account! Then there is less chance that the users will run away with the money!

I think most people taking out such loans do so for rep building. If someone is obviously taking out such loans all the time you could leave a neutral feedback of your findings or opinion as I think it is suspect when people do this.

Yeah thats a good idea, maybe make a limit on how many loans a person can take, as a rule? Like not more than 3 loans per month, seems reasonable to me. Obviously this would be like an unofficial rule but it would allow trusted members to leave a red trust if you take too many loans.

Sounds very plausible if you ask me. People are allowed to do some shady business over here at times, but as long as no rules are being broken, there isn't much you can do :)

If we go by "no rules are being broken" then any scammer is free to do whatever he wants since there are no official rules, obviously bulding rep 99% of times is going to be for bad purposes, i guess we cant really do too much about it

since accounts can be sold ,lets say someone sold his or her account for some bitcoins the new owner can easy request money people should trust on them because high rate .... soo they will lend ,thinking that will receive the money on the time

yeah, i'm sure that people buying accounts specifically with green trust are looking to do exactly that. all the more reason to be ever-more vigilant in the lending forum. always a scam around every corner...

theres really no other point in buying a green trust account besides scamming, it shouldnt be allowed to sell them on the forum, at least to make it harder. Anyways back to the point, we can all agree that most people taking a lot of loans are doing it to buy trust

not exactly, IMHO, people sometimes is really in need

Of what exactly? Could you give me an example of this? If you are in need how come you can pay them back after a few days always? Why would you need to take a loan every week?

because you're addicted to something maybe? like gambling, many here are addicted to have more money, or i should say basically everybody

while the chance of doing it for non scamming purpose might be very slim, there is still someone that is honest and is doing it for something else, like resolving econmic issue in their real life(no money even to pay for your food), many are suffering this crysis, another reason why the majority here are looking for quick buck

If the reason is gambling is just as worse as someone building trust for bad purposes and if the reason is because they need the money so much, how come they can repay it back?

as said several time ago ¨IF WANNA LOOSE A FRIEND LEND HIM OR HER MONEY!!!¨ these is to all new friends online.... the same way we think we should trust because soo many positive feedback those user wont scam? for me i do not lend without colateral otherwise i would loose my money to a scamer and since i were newbie now sr .member but stills hero or legendary word is much more value then mine ,new member and low rank....

I will lend my money just for sr.member above, but I'll take collateral if they don't have any trust/neutral. I will not trust newbie anymore..., :)
also the purpose why they lend money..., I'll check it seriously...

same with me from now on, im about to have two people default on me; late and no contact; ill either be taking collateral no excuses or no collateral for people who have solid green trust. at least i have collateral to cover the loans.

collateral is needed for most lender, now I don't have the borrower,..
and I'll taking newbie if they have enough collateral though they don't have any reputation...

Not everyone asks or requires collateral, ive seen plenty of people giving loans to high rank members without collateral probably because they too want to buy trust by giving loans, someone that is giving a loan with collateral shouldnt get a positive trust rating, he didnt risk anything with it

Which members and what colleteral did you get? Doesn't really matter whether they default if they you have collateral though, just make sure its enough to cover the loan or preferably more and if they default you've made money.

But it does matter, no one likes when they lend money and the borrower doesnt pay, you have to try to sell the account (which is the preffered collateral here) and its a bitch sometimes to sell it. One more thing is that some users instead of selling their accounts could be using loans to do so, they search for a loan of 0.25 using as collateral their account, they dont pay the loan back ad thats it, they basically just sold their account.

one reason is because bank didn't issued their money retirement, this is perfectly my case, the case of my father, that is still waiting for his 60k euro, and in the main time he is struggling to go ahead

he is asking loan to me plenty of times already, basically every month, not every week though, then he said that he will repay me when the money will arrive

so you see there are some cases

Its not the same, he is asking you for loans and he will pay all of them at once later, the problem with these loans here is that people is paying them on time which is the weird part, how come they always get the money to pay back all the loans, why would they need to take the loans then?

the thing is you must protect your money otherwise we will see newbies or any rank members start scamming several people.... those is just to be sure that your money still save even on others hands...

well we have already reached the point, some of them are just building those trust, to have a good position on the forum, having a green status is better than 0 or red, other are just building gree status, in the case someoen will put a red trust for personal reason

and then there are those that are doing it for scamming, but i don't they are the majority, like someone could think

as long as people dont ask for a collateral they will loose their money ... and no reputation green worth such money to be lost .

There are no rules about loans, only the ones that the parts agree.

But there are common practices and the trust system.

If you think your altcoin will about to skyrocket and you need BTC now, you can use your alt as collateral and keep most of your profit.

well there can be another reason beside Gambling and gaining rep, lets say cloud mining like eobot or exchanging curcerys coz sometimes  Priceses go down by 30-40% and ppl try to buy them in that moment (if they think it will increase soon) and then sell them and make profit from it.. i do same thing thats why i think thats the reason (i dont take loans) but if u dont have money at that moment loan is good way :)

Bullshit, how come you never have to money then? Taking loans every week means that you dont have money every week for some odd reason? If someone was indeed mining they would profit from it and they would be able to re-invest their own money no need to search for loans.





Thats just really risky and not really profitable UNLESS you are taking a huge loan to be able to buy a good amount of altcoins, taking loans of 0.05 wont help you in that strategy because of the fees, you might end up loosing money or winning, what? 0.0001 satoshis of profit which is shit considering all the time and effort

They are probably doing it to gain trust like you said.

Many of them take loan and invest them just to get interest on them.
But considering the present economy they should know that loan has no value.

If you don't have the btc should be rare when you need to borrow it.

the point was , why they are asking for so many loan, if after the first one they could essentially use the their money(that they gave to you) to do their businesss

this could be explained only if for every new loan they need a bigger amount than the previous one, or because they want to increase their trust to scam a big ammount in the end it's a common strategy between scammers

Well, thinking of each person is different, we would not know the purpose of a person to borrow, if he does not ask the truth. but someone who has earned the trust feedback of loans, may have a goal to cheat, and the best way to avoid it, is to use a trusted escrow

It's just the loaners trying to make a small profit off interest. Of course, there are risks too, like some time ago one guy with a big reputation and age on the forum scammed few hundred users.

a lot of  loans are for gambling ,but there could be potential abusers but that is part of the system.

This is not about the loaners but about the borrowers which esentially lose money taking so many loans if they use them for nothing, i really dont understand why people is so interested in building trust, aside from scamming, of course. You can still do business lr trades as long as you use escrow or collateral even with 0 trust

I haven't taken any loans myself yet, but I have lend people my bitcoins. Sometime they want to quickly buy something or if their wallet needs btc to make transactions. Many situations can happen, usually I don't ask them. Some time they take a loan to pay back someone else that they owe money to, that might also be the case. Be honest with you, I don't understand them either. 

I can't say much about that but according to my personal experience in bitcointalk Some users buy trust to increase trust rating. Request a big loan and flew away
Some people take little amounts of loans from trusted users with green trust. When the user repays the loan Lender leaves a positive trust in it which is basically a easy free trust.
Some users also do trade and use trusted escrow to get extra trust point with totally free and some do currency exchanges of small amount from trusted members

These all are tricks to get cheap trust ratings and to scam someone after getting a cool green trust

So, lenders must take an Escrow of a Stable economic value and should give loans only after watching him/her last posts and trust ( read trust comments too )

If you found anything Suspicious. Just Decline the request because no one wants to risk their bitcoins in fake trusts

Hope this Helps :)

You would probably be wasting your time if you want green trust to scam with a loan because your account would be worth a lot and you wont get any big amount of money even if you have green trust unless you are extremely trusted, at most you can probably get around 0.3 maybe 0.4 with really good trust? I dont think so and your account its still worth around that amount or even more and you can rank it up even more to make it worth maybe even 1 bitcoin depending on your rank

Well first I never use such cheap crappy tricks to increase my trust rating. Even if I have no trust I am trusted in front of many users who know me.
Those green trust are just a show off

What if there is a lot of green trusts but no one knows you. You don't even get a reasonable loan

And about account prices then there are a lot of sr. Member accounts for sale on bitcointalk with the price range of BTC0.15 to BTC0.4

I think that people take loan to buy bitcointalk accounts and then apply for sign. Campaign. Usually the roi is not more than a few weeks.

The main problem is if bitcoin price goes up suddenly alot, then how are they going to pay it? They will default.

Now they are not necessarly scammers, but they just cant pay it at higher prices, so its not necessarly a good idea to take a bitcoin loan.

No, i doubt it, i mean sure people take loans to buy bitcointalk accounts but they wouldn´t take loans so often, with more than 1 account is really hard to post regulary and keep the posting quality high, as some people said previously, the only real reason someone could have to take loans regulary is to pay for something monthly, that would still be weird because if they dont have the money to pay for it but then they have the money to pay the loan back means that either they get real money later or they are scamming or trying to increase the reputation here.

Well sometime like me i got hack lost everything and then i needed a loan just to get going and till my miner made enough to start again....that was 4 days  ago and never got the loan....and still need a loan so sometime it out of your hand when it happens like that ........have a good day cause im not after losing everything .....

That makes no sense, im talking about people taking too many loans, yes you can lose everything but i doubt anyone lost everything every two weeks to be needing a loan every week almost

i give loans to ppl because it get me some small interest. to be honest: i dont care what they need the money for as long as they pay back. i also dont care if they request like 10 loans in a row.

from my point of view: i know exactly how it feels when its the 24th of the month, you need something but you dont have any money.

If there is no risk in taking loans then i may also go for loan.
Because if they take loan they can get interest on it.

Yes that is a big problem, but if people need for trading so they can increase their amount of btc then it should not be a problem to pay back in this case.

There is always risk unless you're  covered with collateral, but the most risk is on the lender especially when they put faith and trust in the borrower and that's when scams happen but lending money when you already have it is silly in my opinion.

That depends because that adds extra risk to the loan.

If i were to give out loans I would first ask them what they need it for, and then adjust the interest rate based on that (of course they could lie so i would need proof beyond their words).

For trading loans IDK 10-15% interest.

For medical loans , personal spending, or education loans 5-10%

And for a solid business plan 1-5%, depending on what business they will do.

That is just my opinion, other guys would do it differently, and the numbers are not exact, but just to illustrate the difference between loan risks.

The problem with people asking so many loans is there, but now there are people who blindly give out coins to them, encouraging more to ask mfor loan.

It is unfortunate people game and abuse the system on this forum. Far too often I see the most ridiculous loan requests posted here. There are many ways people come up with excuses to not repay the loan. I probably won't bother in the future with getting a loan from a stranger in the future.

How many traders are actually successful? Very, very few I'd say. It often takes years of losses before you start to become consistent and train your emotions properly. You'd be massively stupid to trade with loaned BTC.

It would be interesting to check the loan forum in late 2013 to see what happened there. I assume quite a few hearts were broken.

That's the reason we shouldn't provide any one loan without proper collateral. Collateral should be easily liquidated later to recover our money. People come up with so many new ideas of reasons for asking loan without any collateral  but do not fall on those traps. Just follow no collateral means no loan then you will be safe in this business otherwise you may end up loosing some money because of scam.

which is the longest period for loan?
long period is very risky for both side, especially for big loans.
I would not dare to take loan, with my luck price will be jumped double on a payday

That's the best thing to do. I will never give out a loan without any collateral in my hands. I'm all for this P2P lending idea but at the moment we have a broken system. I may actually might want to look at building a website, get it tested by a professional hacker and launch a secure P2P Bitcoin lending platform. BTCJam is the shits with scammers as well. My site would hold collateral.

You can't really be sure what these guys are using the loans for. It could possibly be for paying daily bills, or even for supporting a gambling addiction. Other times it's just to build trust to value an account higher. If an account has a good trust rating and high forum tenure, I see no problem giving a loan out ot them. Especially if the have a good history of paying back the lender without defaulting.

And people often just ask for really low amounts like 0.1 which id garbage for trading unless you are a fucking god and can predict everything you wont be able to make profit with such low amounts or you will make really low profit that wont even cover the interest rate of the loan

True. Often when lending to strangers, you will more often then not find yourself financing gambling and drug addicts. That is why I would suspect that most borrowers here offering their account as collateral is fund some kind of addiction one way or the other

Its weird trust me people shouldn't take out loans to gamble its very bad.......


Dont ever take or give a loan. Its fucking black and white :O



unless you a boss *insert middle finger emoji*

I would only give loans with collateral only but even so it's painful when they dont pay back and you have to sell the collateral which might be hard sometimes and tedious and all that just to get your money back

Yes your correct. Some people seen giving away loans without any collateral for member accounts just because of some profits. If they pay back ok otherwise it be a big loss. Now a days lending section is full of new members (scammers) asking for loan.

Nowadays you can tell if they are asking for a loan with their account as collateral or they are selling their account
The requested loan amount is almost same as the selling price of the collateral.
There's a hidden agenda
So they are not taking loans, they are selling accounts!

So just refuse to give so much loan. One should give loan amount less then the account value otherwise surely every one try to exploit this option.

That wouldn't  be a really big problem if everyone asks for collateral worth more than the amount of btc that is being borrowed and even so at least it's a soft scam, the loaner doesn't really lose money only time

Actually I have witnessed one such guy, he is either lending money to random people or it's his alts!
It is of course the legendary pro lender, manyproofs

manyproofs is a special case :)
it may seems like he is lending to his alts but I have seen legit (not alts) loans that he funded. 1 example is letyouearn, but the rest I would say is just an alt or taking advantage of manyproofs "generosity"