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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-willing-consider-loans-greece-114122433.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-willing-consider-loans-greece-114122433.html)

Russia is willing to consider giving financial aid to Greece, President Vladimir Putin's spokesman said Friday ahead of talks between the leaders of the two countries.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras traveled to Russia as his country struggles to reach a deal with its creditors for new loans it needs to avoid defaulting on debt payments at the end of the month. Without the bailout, Greece could be headed for bankruptcy or an exit from the euro.

Tsipras's visit has given rise to speculation that the Greeks may be seeking Russian loans.

I thought that Russia was in financial trouble  :(

Well... I'll give you a comparison between the United States and Russia.

Russia:
Net Debt: $243 billion
Forex Reserves: $370 billion
Surplus: $127 billion

United States:
Net Debt: $18,315 billion
Forex Reserves: $121 billion
Deficit: $18,194 billion

Now, from these stats, who seems to be in financial trouble?

I think Russia here plays a very clever game.
Currently, Russia is quite isolated in Europe and this is an excellent opportunity for them to deepen their ties with an important member of the EU and NATO and make Greece financially dependent on Russia.
Another important objective of Russian policy is likely to bypass the blockade of the EU and to build their pipeline of alternative route: Turkey- Greece- Makedonie- Serbia and Hungary, through the countries with whom they have built excellent political and economic relations.
However, Russia is also in financial problems and the question is how much they can really financially help Greece.

Heads up WW3 coming...
Both EU and US warned Greece it seems the new Government wan'ts to refresh relations with Russia(and China). Economic devastation of a country in astrategic position is no good. Russia would like like to get
a "far hand" inside Greece to sabotage EU sanctions and bypass Ukraine.

[quote
I thought that Russia was in financial trouble  :(
[/quote]

Well the answer for this is, Russia has a large and sophisticated arms industry, capable of designing and manufacturing high-tech military equipment, including a fifth-generation fighter jet. The value of Russian arms exports totalled $15.7 billion in 2013—second only to the US. Top military exports from Russia include combat aircraft, air defence systems, ships and submarines.

Arms industry is important for the Russian economy, but it is not one of the top revenue earners for Russia. Russia produces some 10.7 million barrels of crude oil every day, and exports crude and products worth 8.1 million barrels every day. They earn a tax revenue of $42 per barrel from the exports, amounting to $340 million per day or $124 billion per year. They also export vast quantities of natural gas, in addition to other resources such as timber, coal, nickel, phosphate, copper, aluminium, and gold.

You should relate debt and deficit to gross domestic product, and income per inhabitant...

Now, I wonder what game the Greeks are playing. They've said many times that the Germans and especially Frau Merkel were all nazis, but they would like us to believe that Putin is Mr Nice Guy, and that he will save Greece from rapacious western bankers? I'm doubtful dealing with Putin will be any sweeter than dealing with Mme Lagarde from the IMF.

Pretty sweet and smooth move by Russia. After making greece financially dependent, they will hold an upper hand in their region and might take advantage of their favours provided at future. Also, Russia is one of those countries with the lowest debts I assume and maximum resources. They are pretty strong.

The net debt in the United States is around 120% of the GDP. On the other hand, the Russian net debt is just 7% of the national GDP.


At least Putin is not trying to steal money from the Greek pensioners, when they are struggling to survive. And he is not siding with Goldman Sucks, when the bank is trying to loot the Greeks.

Well, Russian Federation is now in economic decline. Not America. Those debts are just a numbers. America have control of its money which is world reserve currency. American dollar yeah! )))

i think these debts are on papers only and never gonna get clear ;)

Greece has a collateral ? :P

Wow. The US net debt is a really huge number. How on earth did it get up to that?

They need money to invade sovereign nations such as Libya, Serbia and Iraq, right? Also they are spending almost $1 trillion a year to maintain their war machine. That said, most of the federal debt was amassed after Barack Obama became the POTUS. And if Hillary becomes the next POTUS in 2016, it can rise to new peaks.

http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Federal-Debt-Total-Public-Debt-U.S.-Dollar-Collapse-2015.jpg

Financing war is only part of the budget. There's also medical insurance, but since the average American is more than 10 times richer than the average Russian, bankers will always have more trust in US than Russia. US government can borrow money at less cost than the Russian one, and this isn't going to change in the foreseeable future.

You should have expressed yourself in a different manner (i.e. the numbers). I actually thought at first that you wrote $18.315 billion and wanted to correct you. To clarify, we are talking about $18 Trillion USD debt. According to wikipedia it is 72.50% of the GDP while for Russia  (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/russia)it is only 11.42%

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

From what I understand they plan to do a gas deal with them in addition to their help.

well the problem its if its left wing connected to a bit of terror and the part of greece democracy must be implied to remove both liders of this regimes to another will of people in those countries for the all europe to provide the correct ideology distorced by this to nervouse irregular rich guys

I am not sure, whether your figures are accurate. According to the site which you had mentioned earlier (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org), the US GDP is $17.418 billion. The net debt is $18.319 billion, so net debt accounts for 105% of the United States GDP. And according to the same site, the Russian GDP is $2.117 billion (the Russian economy is having a significant informal sector, so the real GDP might be much higher). So the net debt accounts for 11.4% of the Russian GDP.

I think that the numbers from Wikipedia are based from a 2012 report. Actually it is, I've just verified  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt)it.Russia actually deceased the dept if the numbers are correct. It was 12.2% of the Russian GDP in 2012.

However, this link  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt)has more 'up to date' information, the numbers don't match now. I'm not sure exactly what to make of this.
Even if we take into account the worst scenario, Russia is still in a better state than the USA. That's 23% of their GDP, compared to 105% for the United Sates.

The Eurozone countries are going to help them I suppose. I read in the newspaper that Greece is on the verge of defaulting euro 1.7+ billion and have asked the Eurozone countries to help it with euros 7+ billion.

They will not get any more loans from the Eurozone, period. And if they default on their loans (which looks extremely likely right now), the troika will take retaliatory measures, such as kicking Greece out of the Euro Zone, and seizing the Greek government assets abroad. Everything is just a formality now... No one believes that Greek will make the next payment.

I suppose someone will bail them out of this. It could be US, it has to be US, as China and Russia will try seize the opportunity to get close with Greece if euro zone and america decides not to help it.

Greece is probably better off siding with Russia, they will get the benefit from the gas pipeline, have a market for their agricultural produce without other competing EU members due to sanctions, a weaker currency boosting tourism and exports. Staying with the Euro they will just have perpetual pain.

You are probably right. But Greece cannot remain with Russia for a long period. And Russia supporting Greece, will be a risk, a risk of Greece getting converted into conflict zone.

A gas pipeline? To what end? Greece doesn't need much of it. The customers Russians want are in the EU, with Italy first in line. I'm not sure many European leaders would be pleased to pay the Greeks to buy Russian gas, especially since that it would be a way to bypass Ukraine, giving Russia an even tighter grip on Ukrainian economy.

I agree that a cheap currency would help exports, sadly Greece doesn't export much. Anyone here likes ouzo? I don't.

Russia has a very good strategic position. This country not depend from other coutries on the world. Because of  all her wealthy depend on it. Most of her income from working with gas. Because of Russia has a money to give in loan.

At least Putin is not trying to steal money from the Greek pensioners, when they are struggling to survive. And he is not siding with Goldman Sucks, when the bank is trying to loot the Greeks.
[/quote]

Another thing to remember. Merkel made herself very unpopular in Greece a few years ago, when she suggested that Germany will take ownership of several of the Greek islands against writing off of the debt. At least Putin is offering Greeks a way to earn money unlike Germany, who wanted to make another stab at land grab.


That's backward logic. When Russia bypasses Ukraine, which has a track record of stealing the transit gas, Russia actually forfeits some of the control on Ukrainian economy: Ukraine no longer gets paid the transit fees. As for having a tight grip... You should expand your historical horizon. Russian/Ukrainian economies were intertwined from before the coup d'etat of 1917, when these lands were one and the same country.

You ask to what end if the pipeline? to supply Southern Europe with gas. Northern Europe gets its gas through North Stream. Central (Poland) - through Yamal pipeline. Southern Europe is at a disadvantage, having it's supply routed though a US puppet state. Russia and thous Southern countries want to have a stable supply. And Greece was an industrial country before it joined EU. Who knows, Greece may need more gas once it starts to re-industrialise. And the transit income is very much needed too. Everyone (except the USA) wins.

I think that is exactly what they are planning, holding an upper hand above Greece to make them dependent financially. Russia has a really low debt and it is very nuclear strong, they will definitely try to hold a position above Greece.

Playing with the devil. By giving loan to Greece Russia will gain influence in the Europe and that is exactly what she wants.

Of course Russian financial aid to Greece was not discussed, it's like expecting one broke homeless guy to lend rent money to another broke homeless guy, it's simply not doable .

It is, but they need allies. And of course, EU being that rigorous to Greece, will make Greek govt. seek refuge under a different wing. They should cut them some slack, or this could become reallity.

Whom do you call "broke and homeless" here. ;) Don't fall for the Western MSM wishful thinking propaganda that wants you to think that Russia is in economic trouble. Nothing is further from the truth.

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You can demonise Russia all you want. I don't think attempts to drive a wedge between Russia and Greece will work. Russia and Greece have several centuries of good, mutually-benefitial relations.

To those asking what Greece has to export. Before it joined EU, Greece was one of the to ship-building countries. Wouldn't it be good if it reclaimed that position?

Also, everyone should ask themselves: why is USA so desperate as to sabotage any gas pipeline that would bypass Ukraine? Because USA has a tight grip on Ukraine and can thus blackmail both EU (if you don't as we say, we'll disrupt the gas supply) and Russia (if you don't do as we say, you'll lose revenue from gas sales as the transit will be disrupted).

As it stands now, if Ukraine was a stable state, it should be the same for EU if the gas comes through Ukraine or Greece. With Ukraine in the last death throws, EU should be interested to get the same gas supply through a more reliable source.

Although Russia is broke, this is a good way for Russia to gain new allies as the EU will not lend to Greece without any austerity conditions.
Russia can have influence in Greece which will give them more room in Southern Europe.

Did you read the post just above your? Who told you that Russia is broke?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gold-reserves

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/russia-gold-reserves.png?s=russiagolres

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/unemployment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/russia-unemployment-rate.png?s=ruuer

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/articles/05062015141245.htm

He didn't read any posts, he is part of a signature campaign. Most of the participants usually try replying without reading anything which tends to be obvious at times.
Just a comparison of the USA with an unemployment rate of 5.5%:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-states-gold-reserves.png?s=unitedstagolres&d1=20000101&d2=20151231

I often heard from people that Russia is in a bad state and whatnot. I'm yet to figure out why is that. Is it their own ignorance or are they being influenced by the media?

Fix :D

This two-dimensional financial analysis focuses only on a single metric, and ignores the most important factor: ability to borrow / creditworthiness. Until the US government cannot borrow or has as much trouble borrowing as Russia does, it cannot be said to be in financial trouble. With Russian government bonds yielding over 10%, and the US yielding 2.4%, the world markets have spoken about which country is in more financial trouble.

All markets are cyclical, Greece could well be a fulcrum. The IMF US hegemony are reaching their zenith, for Greece it's a perfect opportunity switch and ride the Bricks swing that will inevitably follow

While the recurrent statement that "Russia is bankrupt" is in the category of a wishful thinking lie at best (at worst it's a market-manipulating propaganda on par with the numerous "Bitcoin is dead" meme from those, who wish to buy in cheaper), as with every well-crafted lie, this one too is based on some truth. Russian economy is not optimal. It's agriculture suffered a long period of neglect (from 1992 onwards) and the industry only started rebuilding after a complete destruction during the 90s. As Russia is operating as an open free market (alas, freer than, say, the US market), there was little incentive to invest into agriculture and industry - why bother with initial investments and waiting for ROI, when there was bigger profit to be made at once buying the ready-made stuff from abroad and reselling it on the domestic market?

In that sense, the sanctions imposed on Russia and the resulting counter-sanctions are as a breath of fresh air for a suffocating person. Russia is going now through a process of rebuilding, so some hardships are to be expected.

An interesting read in this regard is the following article:
http://stanislavs.org/for-russia-90s-were-worse-than-wwii/

And the same can be said about Greece. After it joined the EU, both it's industry and agriculture were systematically destroyed and limited by various directives from Brussels. This crisis may well be for Greece the last chance to regain its sovereignty and rebuild its economy. And, mark my words, the same problems that Greece is facing now, will in a short time come to the surface in the Baltic states...

That's interesting. I was only partially aware of the problems that Russia had (has), however I had no idea that it was this extreme. It is good to see that they are in the process of rebuilding themselves from within. They have a lot of natural resources and shouldn't have that many problems. I never said that Russia was perfect, however calling them bankrupt is just wrong.
Look at the countries that have an unemployment rate of 30% or more.

According to Wikipedia (February 2015), Greece has an unemployment of 25.5%. Why are the Baltic states going to encounter problems?

The Baltics (I can speak mostly for Lithuania) have gone through the same process of de-industrialisation and and de-agriculture that Russia after 1992 and Greece after it joined EU. If you take a ride outside Vilnius, you'll see a lot of neglected fields. Abandoned factories are everywhere. Our family's friends worked at a drills factory in Vilnius, which supplied USSR with high-precision drills. The factory got privatised/turned into a cooperative in 1990, and in 1992 it got sold and closed down. The country has been turned into a good consumer, but for work, people look outside of the country. While bashing everything Soviet, Lithuania still lives on the dwindling heritage from the Soviet time. There is one indicator that i found funny: the manhole covers in the streets. If one cares to pay attention to such details, they are all from before 1992, some are as old as from 1970s - it feels like time stopped and no new constructions/repaiers of infrastructure has been done since then. The public transportation park is also largely from the 80s. What I didn't find in Lituania, is antagonism between common Lithuanians and Russians. You hear Russian and Lithuanian speech everywhere, often within the same conversation...

EDIT: And the most important bit. Lithuania switched to Euro this January. From what I've been told, prices are silently creeping up since then, as many sellers simply switch the Lit sign to €, leaving the amount on the tag unchanged.

Here are some pics that I took in Vilnius, just 10-15 minutes walk away from the tourist centre. These are like they are coming strait out of Half-Life 2's City17...

http://stanislavs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3369.jpg
http://stanislavs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3367.jpg
http://stanislavs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3368.jpg
http://stanislavs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3366.jpg

And here is a manhole lock, one of many, from LitSSR, the last 2 numbers is year - 1974:
http://stanislavs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3365.jpg

PS: And there are long queues in front of the Belorussian embassy - people going there for work or to visit families. Belorussia, being the only USSR's republic that didn't get plundered and didn't succumb to the post-Soviet syndrome.

The United States's ability to borrow will diminish, as the net debt mount beyond a certain limit. And the Russian troubles are just temporary.

While this might be a interesting subject, I'm afraid that we might be straying away too far from the original subject. It's quite unfortunate to see some countries slowly dying. It's not just a matter of the EU, it is also a problem with some countries outside of it. The justice system isn't doing their job properly in addition to a high amount of corruption. That can't lead to good things.

I actually have a friend who lives in Greece. I remember us talking, even a few years back he was complaining about the situation. His family was barely able to survive due to the conditions and they were making huge salary cuts to everyone. Unfortunately, also people with huge potential get affected by this and they probably don't have possibility to use it.
I've just read something about Russia having a low life expectancy, and that their population is shrinking.

Official statistics for demography dynamics:
http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/rosstat_main/rosstat/ru/statistics/population/demography/
Blue: number of births, red: number of deaths

Population for RF in total and by region:
http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/generation/dem1.xlsx
Totals:
2012: 143056400
2013: 143347100
2014: 143666900

Life expectancy for men and women after reached 60 and after reached 55 (2005-2013):
http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/generation/dem2.xlsx

Besides that Oil, natural gas, metals, and timber account for more than 80% of Russian exports abroad. According to famous news channels, Russia is considered well ahead of most other resource-rich countries in its economic development, with a long tradition of education, science, and industry.

They provide loan to Greece for the extension of gas pipeline which will pass through Turkey to Europe. :)

The first part of this is certainly true in theory, however people have been promising it for a looooooong time and it hasn't proven out in the slightest so far. You can always claim time is on your side, however you have no evidence to support the claim right now. The second part of this is opinion I don't care enough to rebut.

The life expectancy in Russia is a little bit lower when compared to its neighbors. For example, the life expectancy was 70.9 years in 2014, compared to 77 years in Poland, and 74 years in Bulgaria. But it has improved quite a lot during the recent years. And the Russian population is not shriking. It is growing at a rate of 300,000 per year.