Bitcoin Forum

Up for sale is a MS-68 casascius silver tenth coin.

Asking price: 3.5BTC (and taking offers)
Shipping: paid for by buyer
Escrow: Accepted, paid for by buyer

https://i.imgur.com/vzs0tTH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1ra9PE8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rF9iwLK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CBH73Zp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IlEQ5AO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DBinCrf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sthd066.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FQ0KXOi.jpg

Price is negotiable, however I am not in any rush to sell so please do not make any lowball offers.  

To avoid scammers the only address I will ask you to send to is below: (although it may change from time to time for privacy)

If you want a private address just ask and I will PGP sign an address for you. My PGP key is F0BEB516 (http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x532DD290F0BEB516)

Yes and Yes...

So I guess this is the 2nd one out there? Or did two come back like that?

There's a thread on this forum that catalogs what people have paid and what grades people have gotten for these coins (for all Casascius coins). I just tried to search for it but couldn't find it...I bet you could find it if you have the time to snoop around.

These tenths are an allusive group of coins, only 800 minted and ~790 active!

How many of these coins are in "safe keeping storage" right now and how many have been tossed aside, to never be seen again?

You're not the first but it's the best grade for a tenth atm. I'm interested in the price since the last MS68 tenth sale.

Based on my source, the other person who owns a casascius tenth MS68 has not sold it, so I don't think there is any existing sales data available is going to be available. If I do end up receiving an offer high enough to allow me to not keep it in my collection, then I would keep the sales price a secret if that was the buyer's wish.

this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214589.0) is probably the thread you were referring to. The tenths are a very rare coin, as you mentioned, there are a very limited mintage of them. It is also somewhat rare for the tenth to get a grade above MS66. AFAIK, this is only the 2nd casascius tenth with a MS68 grade!

Didn't you have a MS-68 tenth also?

I've still got a couple ungraded ones...  Very high quality to my untrained eye.  I think I will hold out on selling any more until someone makes me an offer I can't refuse.  :P

FWIW, the coin in question was one I got from you :)

Your source is wrong ;D I had the first MS68 tenth and I sold it. Which is why it interested in the sales price of this if you sell it.

Are you allowed to reveal the sales price of the coin, either on this thread or via PM? I would be curious to know to use it as a starting point.

I am fairly certain that you did not sell it on here publicly because I looked for threads of MS68 tenths and could not find any

The buyer asked me not to reveal the selling price.

I did sell it here. I'm fairly sure because...I sold it here lol. Rather search for 'MS68' and look for my username somewhere. If you still can't find it, I'll send a link.

Here we go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=911883.0

As far as I remember, Miffman's Ms-68 was the first such grade for any Cas coins and therefore went for quite a high premium. Although MS-68 and above is very rare, it's no longer unheard of so I wouldn't expect to get an offer like he got (although he won't disclose it at the buyers request). It's interesting how until now the highest grade was an MS-67 but in the last month alone with had quite a few MS-68s and even a couple MS-69s appearing on here. Could ANACS be changing their grading system and becoming more lenient?

It seems that I found the link, however I see that you also edited your post to include it. I am not sure why I couldn't find it earlier, maybe I was expecting for a thread to contain the denomination, or maybe I was expecting the coin to be blazedout's. I am also not sure why I don't remember the thread.

If your buyer really didn't want the sales price to be revealed, then he didn't do a very good job at hiding it. It seems that it was publicly announced as to who you struck a deal with (monkeynuts), and it was on February 4 that he confirmed the receipt of the coin. According to the trust rating he left you the same day he confirmed the receipt of the coin, no digital value was traded, which implies it was for a trade, and the amount risked was 4BTC, which implies what he gave you was valued at 4BTC. The trust feedback that you left him said that you traded the coin for a Cryptolator #1 set.

After a review of your thread, it looks like you initially said that you would accept a MS67 Silver+gold single casascius plus 1BTC, which would put your asking price at roughly 4.5BTC. Later you said you would accept a roll of lealana funded (I assume non-buyer funded) .1 BTC silver plus 1BTC, and based on the current high bid (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1118507.msg11874522#msg11874522) for a similar roll, that would put the asking price of the coin the same.

Even though there have been more MS68 casascius coins recently, I still think a MS68 tenth will hold significant value.

I was thinking of having a starting price of roughly 5BTC, although I would obviously consider offers. I would probably also wait some amount of time after I receive my first offer to give other sufficient time for someone else to make a better offer.

If either party wanted me to delete the information regarding the price of the previous coin, such information will self destruct, although you probably should edit/delete posts and trust if you want it to be truly secret :)

My friend  ;D ;D ;D

Monkeynuts is no fool. It is still a secret ;) we did 2 deals in very short succession (three deals actually, but in 2 shipments), one of which is the tenth and the other is the cryptolator set. I will be open about it and say that I traded that set for a casascius bearer bar. My set and my tenth was traded for things from monkeynuts.

I will give you credit for trying, but you did not get it yet :)

Very interesting. Maybe you took more care to keep the sales price secret then I thought :)

I am fairly certain that I was right about your asking price though. 

Surely they wouldn't do such a thing. It would increase the number of coins being sent in for grading, which they obviously do not want.

I almost bought a roll of 0.1s, but figured 0.45 each was too expensive.  ::)

If they become too liberal with their ratings then they may start to get a reputation of being inaccurate and people will not trust their ratings.

Yes... start to get a reputation  ;)

I have an MS65 with an actual clod of dirt on it.

In the "normal" coin collecting world, ANACS is not very well trusted, and in general their grades are consistently seen inferior to the "big two" - PCGS and NGC.  Unfortunately for now, ANACS is the only game in town for Bitcoin related tokens.  That may change if there's enough volume being seen in these series, enough so that the other guys see enough of a revenue stream possibility to make it worth their while.

Grading disparity is an issue across the board, not just to ANACS.  Even with PCGS I've seen many Ike's come out of them which should be a grade lower than what is on the slab, given what may have come out just 6 months prior.  Visible nicks, scuffs, etc in the prime areas which should drop at least half a point grade are in some cases being ignored.  And, with the backlog and turnaround times what they are, it's become an assembly line to get the coins in and out as fast as possible, so they may not be examined as thoroughly as they used to be.

I'm not at all surprised to see the grades trending higher.  Higher grades mean higher resale prices.  It also means more people resubmit coins chasing that higher grade, which benefits the grading companies.

Back on topic tho... the Lealana's.  Are any of those 68's a gold holo?  Do you also have serial #'s on the three?

I will shoot you a PM about exactly what I got back. However I believe the serial numbers are random, and don't remember seeing anything notable.

Yes I traded with Miffman for his 68 tenth. Cant really put an exact price on it, as what I traded with him doesnt have a known price either. But it was a fair deal. Miffman made the most of it being the only 68 at the time. QS your detective work puts you in the right ballpark.

Yes it also seems that there are some higher grades coming through. Really difficult to quantify without the ANACS population database being available.

There are definately variances in the grading, it isnt an exact science. The same coin will get a different grade on a different day, I have no doubt. I have recently opened and split 3 rolls of cas silvers. Sent half of each between 2 different batches for grading, just 2 weeks apart. All coins handled the same prior to sending, law of averages would expect similar average grades between the 2 batches (wish they were my coins !!). 1 batch graded very highly. 1 batch not as well.

Also, part of it is that many more different people are grading higher and higher volumes of coins. Only a few folks previously sent to ANACS. More recently a lot of people are doing it, and seeing peoples success, even more are doing it (yes Nubbins, may not be accidental). With higher volumes, you would expect seeing more at the higher end ... but proportionately it would be the same .... if everything else was consistent

Personally, I do think there was a window at the start of June, where Mrs ANACS was giving Mr ANACS more for breakfast than just cornflakes, as a few grading batches have been looked at favorably - Blazed, Me, Bitmarket, and now QS. Be interesting to see if Mr ANACS goes back to just cornflakes or not. I have a batch to send in over the weekend, it has some more coins straight from a fresh roll. In my mind if they go back to 'previous levels', then it was a blip, and there were a few fortunate people, and we may never see the same grades again. If the same levels are seen again ... then perhaps the coins are getting graded more favorably across the board.
(and people will start cracking open old slabs, that they thought were treated unfairly, and getting them graded again .... Nubbins, maybe thats part of the ANACS masterplan as well ?)

Good luck with this. Watching !

Maybe  8)

I'm probably going to just stop selling. I do have one spare 0.5 series-2 first-roll and two spare 1btc third-roll silvers, and a couple odd pieces (2011 s2, etc), but I'm tired of selling to rubes who undervalue anything not in a shitty ANACS slab. Maybe I'll run into you guys at a convention some day  :D

Rubes...lol I think #b-a is starting to warp your brain. Having coins being graded and stabbed is good for the future values. It shows how strong the Casascius following is....not just some metal coins sitting in a drawer somewhere. People care enough to pay and have them graded by professionals, and at some point we will get population reports. I think for the cost it is a no brainier to have done. Slabs are by far the safest long term storage for coins since they are 100% sealed and the coins can not move at all while in them.

Stop acting like a pleb....lolz...

As a real-world example, I've never been able to get more than 0.7 for a brass half; I sent you a stack of 'em, some graded MS67, now they're selling for ___.

Same coins, same quality, people paying an extra 1BTC for a plastic slab. If that's not a rube, I don't know what is :)

The difference is that when a coin is graded, a professional is saying that it has a certain specific quality, when it is not graded only an amateur is giving a vague estimation as to the quality of the coin. When the professional says the quality, they guarantee they are accurate.

My current theory is that as people receive coins that get a high grade back from ANACS they are going to be more likely to be willing to sell it due to the high premium associated with the high grades, then they would with a lower grade, even if they want the coin to be part of their collection. I am just throwing numbers out there, however it would be possible that 100% of MS68 casascius coins get put up for sale right away, while only 40% of MS67s will be put up for sale, and maybe 30% of MS66 or lower. It is also possible that someone who receives a lower grade might intend to sell their coin only when there are no other similarly graded coins out there for sale.

If ANACS had an increase of 500% in the number of coins being sent to them over a certain time then you would expect a 500% increase in the number of MS68 coins being put up for sale, but maybe not for the number of MS67 coins.

If ANACS is giving out grades that it shouldn't be giving out (temporarily), then any potential buyer can be rest assured that they will be protected because ANACS guarantees the grade of the coins they grade, and will buy the coin back from you in the event that they are incorrect (and/or will pay you the difference in value of what grade the coin should have actually received). How they value these coins, I am unsure, and it would be an even larger gray area considering that these physical coins are almost always priced in terms of bitcoin.

I do personally think this is a very nice coin, and although I am no expert, I would certainly agree that it is deserving a MS68 grade!

The problem with "throwing numbers out there" is that they aren't rooted in fact. In statistical terms the bell curve represents the fact that most things being evaluated (across the same categories of evaluation) will be similar with little or moderate variability. Then there will be a significantly smaller number of outliers with high variability from the mean (on both ends of the spectrum). If ANACS increases the population of coins being graded, it's logical to assume that it would not result in more higher grades to be assessed beyond the natural distribution.

And, with out providing actual fact but thinking about theory it's realistic to assume that if more of a good thing is available the price for that good thing will come down. In your example if more MS68 graded coins are available they will not all command a higher price.

I think you should play up your hunch that you have the only or one of two MS68 tenth coins rather than try to convince prospective buyers that there are a lot of MS68 quality coins in existence, they just haven't been graded yet - hell, I may have one!

That is fair enough. As of now there are only two MS68 casascius tenths in existence, and there is no guarantee there will ever be anymore that will grade at that value.

I was really more trying to explain my economic theory behind supply and demand, as very highly graded coins are very rare, and people are willing to pay a high premium for them, giving owners an economical advantage to put every MS68 graded coin they get up for sale. Although a MS67 coin is still a very nice coin in very good condition, the economic incentives are not as great for a collector to put up every coin they receive back from ANACS that is graded MS67

While you are correct to say that if I imply there are no other MS68 quality similar coins out there that I would likely be able to command a higher price, I am a strong believer in including all known relevant facts and to not mislead your trading partner when trading with someone.

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

I'd love to be in the room when these ANACS folks grade a coin to see what they're really seeing, what they're discriminating between from one coin to the next. They all look so perfect to me, but obviously I'm not an expert.

It seems like a true statement that their could never be other MS68 graded coins like these in the future, especially given the small quantity in existence.

They use magnification @ 8x to grade the coins. I am pretty sure that is the standard used when grading. I have a direct line with Andrew at ANACS (he is not a grader, but has agreed to answer any community questions I present him with - he asks graders). I was going to make a grading thread here with example submission forms and take questions etc... - Guess I will need to motivate myself and get that done.

Would be helpful if we had that physical cryptos section to post that in.... ;)

A grading thread would be very cool. If you want me to set it up for you, i'm happy to do so...just don't want to step on any toes (as they say...)

I will make it this evening...where do I post it was always my question though.  Services? Service discussion?

I'd say keep it in goods. Grading is a service, but it's not a "bitcoin service".

Technically will it belong to "Service discussion".
Only problem is that it would be drowned in all the discussion about shady bitcoin related businesses.
I never look in that section.

I think you could get away with placing it under "Goods" as nubbins point out... the verdict will be up to the mods.

Ideally would should it be in the "Physical coin" section... which we don't have.

Physical crypto section. Don't leave Kialara out of it, he's the only one to do anything new since Casascius :)

Even squared object can be seen as a coin.
All kinda weird shapes of coins exist.
I don't care too much about the actual name of the sub-forum, as long as there is a place to discuss topics "like this".
But I like your name better than my name if it comes down to that :D Think Blazzed and AnaglogKid came up with some good names too?

I think Genesis did some different as well, the technology used is the same as Casascius, but the distribution was pretty original.

Edit:

I have posted this picture before, I took it at the National historical museum in Lund (Sweden), it is a 20 Kg Copper coin, face value is 10 Rigsdaller

https://i.imgur.com/IgTzQLs.jpg

It was equivalent to 10 silver coins (1 Rigsdaler), but because silver was scares at that time was these babies minted.

Did this ever happen? So much to say...so few Casascius sales threads to hijack!

Quicksilver, glad you potentially found a buyer. Nubbins talk about "more coins, fresh from another roll" is badass talk. The fact that people have rolls of these coins doesn't surprise me, it "wows" me...which I had been conscious in 2010.

Looks like I'm going to have to send a few of mine in for grading...

Just an FYI then OgNasty...ANACS is having a sale. Save $30 when submitting over 10 coins.

http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/Specials/CotM_Special.aspx

Unfortunately the deal with my buyer fell through prior to me sending pictures of the coin.

I am still accepting offers for the coin - one of three MS68 casascius tenths that have surfaced publicly so far.

https://i.imgur.com/vzs0tTH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1ra9PE8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rF9iwLK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CBH73Zp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IlEQ5AO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DBinCrf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sthd066.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FQ0KXOi.jpg

Hey quickseller's  ms68 0.1 is still available.. I choosed not to follow through this deal even before Receiving any photos from QS.

Thanks for posting. No hard feelings. Let me know if anything changes and if it is still available then we can hopefully work something out :)

Alright.. :)

I thought I read in the logs that you were considering 'making a coin' - any plans for that? I'd be curious to see what you came up with.

You may be confusing me with someone else :D

I designed and silkscreened a CoA for a physical crypto, but the project ended up getting scrapped, so the design never saw the light of day aside from 2-3 test prints ;/

Heh yes, it was the other nubbins  ;). I like your work and the idea of a silkscreened CoA - might be interested for a future coin.

And now I will cease my hijacking of Quickseller's thread  ::)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512


Throw in another coin and I'll trade you this for it:

https://i.imgur.com/5s3f3rzl.jpg
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 8)

I really wouldn't be interested in trades. I am also not familiar enough of the times to really appreciate a copy of their newspaper from the financial crisis (?).

Thanks for the offer though.

 ???

Satoshi inserted the front-page headline from that newspaper into the coinbase of the Genesis Block transaction.

Fair enough, though. Was worth a shot!

Ahhh, I was not aware that was that newspaper.

I will think about it, but like I said I am really not looking for trades.

Interested this...contact us: service.4rsgold@hotmail.com
Site name: 4rsgold.com

I sent you a PM

Not for 5 btc  8)

Make me an offer that is fair and we can work something out.

TBH, I don't care about ANACS grades at all, so I'm not particularly influenced by the slab. I wouldn't offer more than 1.25 btc for any 0.1 silver, regardless of grade.

worth noting that theres currently an MS-67 on auction with 1.6 as the high bid. that said the MS-68' fair market price is atleast 3btc

The coin is now up for auction --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1138014.new#new