[WTS].1 BTC casascius silver MS-68[closed] 3.5btc OBO

[TheAnalogKid]

Back on topic tho... the Lealana's.  Are any of those 68's a gold holo?  Do you also have serial #'s on the three?

[Quickseller]

Back on topic tho... the Lealana's.  Are any of those 68's a gold holo?  Do you also have serial #'s on the three?

I will shoot you a PM about exactly what I got back. However I believe the serial numbers are random, and don't remember seeing anything notable.

[monkeynuts]

Yes I traded with Miffman for his 68 tenth. Cant really put an exact price on it, as what I traded with him doesnt have a known price either. But it was a fair deal. Miffman made the most of it being the only 68 at the time. QS your detective work puts you in the right ballpark.

Yes it also seems that there are some higher grades coming through. Really difficult to quantify without the ANACS population database being available.

There are definately variances in the grading, it isnt an exact science. The same coin will get a different grade on a different day, I have no doubt. I have recently opened and split 3 rolls of cas silvers. Sent half of each between 2 different batches for grading, just 2 weeks apart. All coins handled the same prior to sending, law of averages would expect similar average grades between the 2 batches (wish they were my coins !!). 1 batch graded very highly. 1 batch not as well.

Also, part of it is that many more different people are grading higher and higher volumes of coins. Only a few folks previously sent to ANACS. More recently a lot of people are doing it, and seeing peoples success, even more are doing it (yes Nubbins, may not be accidental). With higher volumes, you would expect seeing more at the higher end ... but proportionately it would be the same .... if everything else was consistent

Personally, I do think there was a window at the start of June, where Mrs ANACS was giving Mr ANACS more for breakfast than just cornflakes, as a few grading batches have been looked at favorably - Blazed, Me, Bitmarket, and now QS. Be interesting to see if Mr ANACS goes back to just cornflakes or not. I have a batch to send in over the weekend, it has some more coins straight from a fresh roll. In my mind if they go back to 'previous levels', then it was a blip, and there were a few fortunate people, and we may never see the same grades again. If the same levels are seen again ... then perhaps the coins are getting graded more favorably across the board.
(and people will start cracking open old slabs, that they thought were treated unfairly, and getting them graded again .... Nubbins, maybe thats part of the ANACS masterplan as well ?)

Good luck with this. Watching !

[nubbins]

Maybe 

I'm probably going to just stop selling. I do have one spare 0.5 series-2 first-roll and two spare 1btc third-roll silvers, and a couple odd pieces (2011 s2, etc), but I'm tired of selling to rubes who undervalue anything not in a shitty ANACS slab. Maybe I'll run into you guys at a convention some day 

[Blazed]

Maybe  

I'm probably going to just stop selling. I do have one spare 0.5 series-2 first-roll and two spare 1btc third-roll silvers, and a couple odd pieces (2011 s2, etc), but I'm tired of selling to rubes who undervalue anything not in a shitty ANACS slab. Maybe I'll run into you guys at a convention some day  

Rubes...lol I think #b-a is starting to warp your brain. Having coins being graded and stabbed is good for the future values. It shows how strong the Casascius following is....not just some metal coins sitting in a drawer somewhere. People care enough to pay and have them graded by professionals, and at some point we will get population reports. I think for the cost it is a no brainier to have done. Slabs are by far the safest long term storage for coins since they are 100% sealed and the coins can not move at all while in them.

Stop acting like a pleb....lolz...

[nubbins]

Maybe  

I'm probably going to just stop selling. I do have one spare 0.5 series-2 first-roll and two spare 1btc third-roll silvers, and a couple odd pieces (2011 s2, etc), but I'm tired of selling to rubes who undervalue anything not in a shitty ANACS slab. Maybe I'll run into you guys at a convention some day  

Rubes...lol I think #b-a is starting to warp your brain. Having coins being graded and stabbed is good for the future values. It shows how strong the Casascius following is....not just some metal coins sitting in a drawer somewhere. People care enough to pay and have them graded by professionals, and at some point we will get population reports. I think for the cost it is a no brainier to have done. Slabs are by far the safest long term storage for coins since they are 100% sealed and the coins can not move at all while in them.

Stop acting like a pleb....lolz...

As a real-world example, I've never been able to get more than 0.7 for a brass half; I sent you a stack of 'em, some graded MS67, now they're selling for ___.

Same coins, same quality, people paying an extra 1BTC for a plastic slab. If that's not a rube, I don't know what is

[Quickseller]

Maybe 

I'm probably going to just stop selling. I do have one spare 0.5 series-2 first-roll and two spare 1btc third-roll silvers, and a couple odd pieces (2011 s2, etc), but I'm tired of selling to rubes who undervalue anything not in a shitty ANACS slab. Maybe I'll run into you guys at a convention some day 

Rubes...lol I think #b-a is starting to warp your brain. Having coins being graded and stabbed is good for the future values. It shows how strong the Casascius following is....not just some metal coins sitting in a drawer somewhere. People care enough to pay and have them graded by professionals, and at some point we will get population reports. I think for the cost it is a no brainier to have done. Slabs are by far the safest long term storage for coins since they are 100% sealed and the coins can not move at all while in them.

Stop acting like a pleb....lolz...

As a real-world example, I've never been able to get more than 0.7 for a brass half; I sent you a stack of 'em, some graded MS67, now they're selling for ___.

Same coins, same quality, people paying an extra 1BTC for a plastic slab. If that's not a rube, I don't know what is

The difference is that when a coin is graded, a professional is saying that it has a certain specific quality, when it is not graded only an amateur is giving a vague estimation as to the quality of the coin. When the professional says the quality, they guarantee they are accurate.

[Quickseller]

Also, part of it is that many more different people are grading higher and higher volumes of coins. Only a few folks previously sent to ANACS. More recently a lot of people are doing it, and seeing peoples success, even more are doing it (yes Nubbins, may not be accidental). With higher volumes, you would expect seeing more at the higher end ... but proportionately it would be the same .... if everything else was consistent

My current theory is that as people receive coins that get a high grade back from ANACS they are going to be more likely to be willing to sell it due to the high premium associated with the high grades, then they would with a lower grade, even if they want the coin to be part of their collection. I am just throwing numbers out there, however it would be possible that 100% of MS68 casascius coins get put up for sale right away, while only 40% of MS67s will be put up for sale, and maybe 30% of MS66 or lower. It is also possible that someone who receives a lower grade might intend to sell their coin only when there are no other similarly graded coins out there for sale.

If ANACS had an increase of 500% in the number of coins being sent to them over a certain time then you would expect a 500% increase in the number of MS68 coins being put up for sale, but maybe not for the number of MS67 coins.

If ANACS is giving out grades that it shouldn't be giving out (temporarily), then any potential buyer can be rest assured that they will be protected because ANACS guarantees the grade of the coins they grade, and will buy the coin back from you in the event that they are incorrect (and/or will pay you the difference in value of what grade the coin should have actually received). How they value these coins, I am unsure, and it would be an even larger gray area considering that these physical coins are almost always priced in terms of bitcoin.

I do personally think this is a very nice coin, and although I am no expert, I would certainly agree that it is deserving a MS68 grade!

[Possum577]

Also, part of it is that many more different people are grading higher and higher volumes of coins. Only a few folks previously sent to ANACS. More recently a lot of people are doing it, and seeing peoples success, even more are doing it (yes Nubbins, may not be accidental). With higher volumes, you would expect seeing more at the higher end ... but proportionately it would be the same .... if everything else was consistent

My current theory is that as people receive coins that get a high grade back from ANACS they are going to be more likely to be willing to sell it due to the high premium associated with the high grades, then they would with a lower grade, even if they want the coin to be part of their collection. I am just throwing numbers out there, however it would be possible that 100% of MS68 casascius coins get put up for sale right away, while only 40% of MS67s will be put up for sale, and maybe 30% of MS66 or lower. It is also possible that someone who receives a lower grade might intend to sell their coin only when there are no other similarly graded coins out there for sale.

If ANACS had an increase of 500% in the number of coins being sent to them over a certain time then you would expect a 500% increase in the number of MS68 coins being put up for sale, but maybe not for the number of MS67 coins.

If ANACS is giving out grades that it shouldn't be giving out (temporarily), then any potential buyer can be rest assured that they will be protected because ANACS guarantees the grade of the coins they grade, and will buy the coin back from you in the event that they are incorrect (and/or will pay you the difference in value of what grade the coin should have actually received). How they value these coins, I am unsure, and it would be an even larger gray area considering that these physical coins are almost always priced in terms of bitcoin.

I do personally think this is a very nice coin, and although I am no expert, I would certainly agree that it is deserving a MS68 grade!

The problem with "throwing numbers out there" is that they aren't rooted in fact. In statistical terms the bell curve represents the fact that most things being evaluated (across the same categories of evaluation) will be similar with little or moderate variability. Then there will be a significantly smaller number of outliers with high variability from the mean (on both ends of the spectrum). If ANACS increases the population of coins being graded, it's logical to assume that it would not result in more higher grades to be assessed beyond the natural distribution.

And, with out providing actual fact but thinking about theory it's realistic to assume that if more of a good thing is available the price for that good thing will come down. In your example if more MS68 graded coins are available they will not all command a higher price.

I think you should play up your hunch that you have the only or one of two MS68 tenth coins rather than try to convince prospective buyers that there are a lot of MS68 quality coins in existence, they just haven't been graded yet - hell, I may have one!

[Quickseller]

Also, part of it is that many more different people are grading higher and higher volumes of coins. Only a few folks previously sent to ANACS. More recently a lot of people are doing it, and seeing peoples success, even more are doing it (yes Nubbins, may not be accidental). With higher volumes, you would expect seeing more at the higher end ... but proportionately it would be the same .... if everything else was consistent

My current theory is that as people receive coins that get a high grade back from ANACS they are going to be more likely to be willing to sell it due to the high premium associated with the high grades, then they would with a lower grade, even if they want the coin to be part of their collection. I am just throwing numbers out there, however it would be possible that 100% of MS68 casascius coins get put up for sale right away, while only 40% of MS67s will be put up for sale, and maybe 30% of MS66 or lower. It is also possible that someone who receives a lower grade might intend to sell their coin only when there are no other similarly graded coins out there for sale.

If ANACS had an increase of 500% in the number of coins being sent to them over a certain time then you would expect a 500% increase in the number of MS68 coins being put up for sale, but maybe not for the number of MS67 coins.

If ANACS is giving out grades that it shouldn't be giving out (temporarily), then any potential buyer can be rest assured that they will be protected because ANACS guarantees the grade of the coins they grade, and will buy the coin back from you in the event that they are incorrect (and/or will pay you the difference in value of what grade the coin should have actually received). How they value these coins, I am unsure, and it would be an even larger gray area considering that these physical coins are almost always priced in terms of bitcoin.

I do personally think this is a very nice coin, and although I am no expert, I would certainly agree that it is deserving a MS68 grade!

The problem with "throwing numbers out there" is that they aren't rooted in fact. In statistical terms the bell curve represents the fact that most things being evaluated (across the same categories of evaluation) will be similar with little or moderate variability. Then there will be a significantly smaller number of outliers with high variability from the mean (on both ends of the spectrum). If ANACS increases the population of coins being graded, it's logical to assume that it would not result in more higher grades to be assessed beyond the natural distribution.

And, with out providing actual fact but thinking about theory it's realistic to assume that if more of a good thing is available the price for that good thing will come down. In your example if more MS68 graded coins are available they will not all command a higher price.

I think you should play up your hunch that you have the only or one of two MS68 tenth coins rather than try to convince prospective buyers that there are a lot of MS68 quality coins in existence, they just haven't been graded yet - hell, I may have one!

That is fair enough. As of now there are only two MS68 casascius tenths in existence, and there is no guarantee there will ever be anymore that will grade at that value.

I was really more trying to explain my economic theory behind supply and demand, as very highly graded coins are very rare, and people are willing to pay a high premium for them, giving owners an economical advantage to put every MS68 graded coin they get up for sale. Although a MS67 coin is still a very nice coin in very good condition, the economic incentives are not as great for a collector to put up every coin they receive back from ANACS that is graded MS67

While you are correct to say that if I imply there are no other MS68 quality similar coins out there that I would likely be able to command a higher price, I am a strong believer in including all known relevant facts and to not mislead your trading partner when trading with someone.

[Blazed]

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

[Possum577]

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

I'd love to be in the room when these ANACS folks grade a coin to see what they're really seeing, what they're discriminating between from one coin to the next. They all look so perfect to me, but obviously I'm not an expert.

It seems like a true statement that their could never be other MS68 graded coins like these in the future, especially given the small quantity in existence.

[Blazed]

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

I'd love to be in the room when these ANACS folks grade a coin to see what they're really seeing, what they're discriminating between from one coin to the next. They all look so perfect to me, but obviously I'm not an expert.

It seems like a true statement that their could never be other MS68 graded coins like these in the future, especially given the small quantity in existence.

They use magnification @ 8x to grade the coins. I am pretty sure that is the standard used when grading. I have a direct line with Andrew at ANACS (he is not a grader, but has agreed to answer any community questions I present him with - he asks graders). I was going to make a grading thread here with example submission forms and take questions etc... - Guess I will need to motivate myself and get that done.

[TheAnalogKid]

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

I'd love to be in the room when these ANACS folks grade a coin to see what they're really seeing, what they're discriminating between from one coin to the next. They all look so perfect to me, but obviously I'm not an expert.

It seems like a true statement that their could never be other MS68 graded coins like these in the future, especially given the small quantity in existence.

They use magnification @ 8x to grade the coins. I am pretty sure that is the standard used when grading. I have a direct line with Andrew at ANACS (he is not a grader, but has agreed to answer any community questions I present him with - he asks graders). I was going to make a grading thread here with example submission forms and take questions etc... - Guess I will need to motivate myself and get that done.

Would be helpful if we had that physical cryptos section to post that in....

[Possum577]

Most of the tenths I have ever submitted graded lower than the singles and halves. I am not sure why or if I just had bad luck with the coins I purchased. MS68 is a really nice grade and should demand a nice price. I agree with when people get high grades they tend to sell them and take some profits. It really depends on who gets the coins though.

I'd love to be in the room when these ANACS folks grade a coin to see what they're really seeing, what they're discriminating between from one coin to the next. They all look so perfect to me, but obviously I'm not an expert.

It seems like a true statement that their could never be other MS68 graded coins like these in the future, especially given the small quantity in existence.

They use magnification @ 8x to grade the coins. I am pretty sure that is the standard used when grading. I have a direct line with Andrew at ANACS (he is not a grader, but has agreed to answer any community questions I present him with - he asks graders). I was going to make a grading thread here with example submission forms and take questions etc... - Guess I will need to motivate myself and get that done.

A grading thread would be very cool. If you want me to set it up for you, i'm happy to do so...just don't want to step on any toes (as they say...)

[Blazed]

I will make it this evening...where do I post it was always my question though.  Services? Service discussion?

[nubbins]

I will make it this evening...where do I post it was always my question though.  Services? Service discussion?

I'd say keep it in goods. Grading is a service, but it's not a "bitcoin service".

[TookDk]

Technically will it belong to "Service discussion".
Only problem is that it would be drowned in all the discussion about shady bitcoin related businesses.
I never look in that section.

I think you could get away with placing it under "Goods" as nubbins point out... the verdict will be up to the mods.

Ideally would should it be in the "Physical coin" section... which we don't have.

[nubbins]

Technically will it belong to "Service discussion".
Only problem is that it would be drowned in all the discussion about shady bitcoin related businesses.
I never look in that section.

I think you could get away with placing it under "Goods" as nubbins point out... the verdict will be up to the mods.

Ideally would should it be in the "Physical coin" section... which we don't have.

Physical crypto section. Don't leave Kialara out of it, he's the only one to do anything new since Casascius

[TookDk]

Physical crypto section. Don't leave Kialara out of it, he's the only one to do anything new since Casascius

Even squared object can be seen as a coin.
All kinda weird shapes of coins exist.
I don't care too much about the actual name of the sub-forum, as long as there is a place to discuss topics "like this".
But I like your name better than my name if it comes down to that Think Blazzed and AnaglogKid came up with some good names too?

I think Genesis did some different as well, the technology used is the same as Casascius, but the distribution was pretty original.

Edit:

I have posted this picture before, I took it at the National historical museum in Lund (Sweden), it is a 20 Kg Copper coin, face value is 10 Rigsdaller



It was equivalent to 10 silver coins (1 Rigsdaler), but because silver was scares at that time was these babies minted.