Bitcoin Forum

Hi,
I'm going to save some Bitcoins for the future. Which is the safest way to store them?
I was thinking about a wallet on a usb flash drive. Which wallet should I choose?

Thank you

ive heard great things about trezor wallets, id say its worth looking into them.
https://www.bitcointrezor.com/

http://www.coindesk.com/review-bitcoin-vault-trezor-lives-name/

electrum.

Try Bitcoin Armory. It is very secure. Otherwise, I would recommend you use a hardware wallet such as Trezor.

Electrum will suit you best , i have been using it from past 5 months , its safe just make all the stuffs offline and keep all keys in a small pen drive and forget about it.

I doubted! What about paper wallets? ::) If paper wallet exist why should bother other wallets? Paper wallets are not secure than? You can import it anytime you want.


~Rude Boy  :-*

bitcoin core does the job. i use it to store my coins that i want to hold for a long time. wallet.dat file with a secure password storen on several usb drives.

Definitely go with a Trezor! It is the most expensive option but the safest in my opinion. Everybody that have more than 10 BTCs should have one in my opinion.

P. S. Look gor the promotions on their website, very often they do have discounts.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/8f/4f/88/8f4f8862658c3e1de1b9fcf2cb3a9c5c.jpg

A bacon wallet is a good place to start, lots of pockets to keep your private keys sorted and a window behind which to stash your QR for payments.

Paper wallets are a very good option if done right.  You do need to keep them in a secure place.

The advantage I can see with trezor is you could carry it with you and have access to your main coins at any time.   Which is good and bad.

Personally I will always have some in paper wallets.   They were made properly and It lets me sleep feeling good.

What if you or someone else like your dog were very hungry and proceeded to eat your bacon wallet along with the private keys and stuff  8)

The thing I don't like about Trezor is that it isn't mobile. I need a laptop or desktop to use it...not very good for on the road transacting. But if you use it for your vault, I guess it's a great option.

I installed Mycelium wallet on my mobile devices and it has the feature of spending from cold wallets and Trezor is integrated too so you are ready to go. It's an HD wallet for Android.

isn't blockchain's wallet is a good option to store btc in a long run ??

HD wallet bitcointrezor

It's a hot wallet.  So good for spending cash yes.  They have a lot of money behind them.

But good for storing all your worth.... most would suggest against it.  Go for cold storage.

Don't suggest you bring the bacon wallet with you all the time! You can use mobile wallet to store small amount of money for daily spending. With cold wallet, you store your bitcoin holding.

I would recommend using Ledger Wallet

usb are ok you don't need to spend much on a device that will offer roughly the same security, but use those usb on a secure machine, which was previously secure erased and everything else

i'm going with this setup since years already and no coins were ever stolen from my balance, the best security is given by yourself

Take a strip of metal and carve your (unencrypted) private key into it and bury it somewhere.
You can also take a piece of polished granite to carve your private key, this way it will not be detectable by a metal detector.

If your just needing to hide from others something such as a in the wall compartment might work nicely: http://www.amazon.com/Meridian-Point-Hidden-Wall-Outlet/dp/B0082CRN2Q/

It will not protect you from fire though.  So I suggest keeping copy of paper wallet in bank box.

Why would you put it in a bank box.
Why would you give the access to your private information to someone else?
Why not just print it out, put it in a plastic bag and box and bury it in your garden?


Bitcoin is lost when we keep giving our complete trust to the banksters and their lockers...

bitcoin core is the best choice if you want to cold storage your coins.
                                                                                       

Tell me how.
Afaik it's a hot wallet

because it's the most secure, the recent invalid blocks, done by mining prove this, i'm talking about the last version, and it can be used with a cold storage on a safe machine, i don't see a problem in running a machine dedicated to the client only without surfing the web, downloading random exe and clicking on suspicious links

yuu don't agree on this?

If you never ever connect it to the internet, then it is a cold wallet.
And it the most secure wallet, you don't need afraid any pseudo random wallet.

The best wallet, according to me, is a wallet out of you computer. If not possible this I like to much coinbase. It's safe and credible. Millions of people use it. Some people like to store their bitcoins in their computer through the bitcoin core. This option is good only if you can store the dat file in a usb (better in two) in order to prevent los of bitcoins with the damage of the computer. And there are to may ways that the computer be damaged or crashed.

There is no problem in creating a random number.
Just take a dice and throw it 100 times to create a base6 number.

Voila, supersecure private key.
Stamp it in metal or carve it into stone.
Bury, wait, dig it up and retire.

i am using electrum and i find it pretty easy to set up and use , and most importantly for me the good point is that i don't have to download the whole blockchain.
because i don't exactly have the best internet connection nor enough HDD.

I will suggest for cold storage desktop client of Bitcoin Core with encryption of at least 15 letters password.I am doing this way my Bitcoins for myself and is working fine and safe for me till now.P.S you need to install some good antivirus on your machine to be safe from different types of viruses.

And don't forget to just install any anti virus and click and accept everything without reading.
Oh, but you could also just install linux.

Memorize 15-20 random words from a large dictionary. Take up to a week to memorize them, ensuring that you can recollect them even if someone woke you in the middle of the night.

Use a well known hash function to converts those words to a (sequence of) large integer(s). This is (are) your private key(s). This needs to be done carefully as the wrong way could render your system insecure. I would suggest

seed = SHA256(word1 || SHA256(word2) || SHA256(word3)... ) as the starting seed
and then use

SHA256(seed || i) to get the ith private key.

You have a (decently) unbreakable wallet now. Of course you need some coding skills to do this.

Install mycelium and you will have a great protection on the go with the Trezor! This is the best option for me by far!

i use electrum as my wallet and i am happy with it so far. i use if on an offline computer that i will never connect it to network.

you can take a look here (hardware wallets):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=899253.0

Bitcoin core installed on a offline linux computer.  Since you are storing coins long term, don't bother downloading the blockchain.  You also should back-up the wallet.dat file and encrypt it on several storage devices.

Yup.
You do need a special usb 'on-the-go' cable to do it this way tho. They're easy to find online.

i am currently using Electrum on my USB drive with linux live which i keep offline at all times.
it is not that hard to make and it is easy to use in order to spend from.

there are better and easier options. especially if you want to spend them without having to import the private keys. like electrum that i mentioned or even Armory.
or
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet#Creation_of_a_paper_wallet
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage

....yeah that works.  or you could just use electrum.

Cold storage in the context of Bitcoin refers to keeping a reserve of Bitcoins offline.

For example, a Bitcoin exchange typically offers an instant withdrawal feature, and might be a steward over hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins. To minimize the possibility that an intruder could steal the entire reserve in a security breach, the operator of the website follows a best practice by keeping the majority of the reserve in cold storage, or in other words, not present on the web server or any other computer. The only amount kept on the server is the amount needed to cover anticipated withdrawals.

Methods of cold storage include keeping bitcoins:

    On a USB drive or other data storage medium in a safe place (e.g. safe deposit box, safe)
    On a paper wallet
    On a bearer item such as a physical bitcoin.
    Online, but on encrypted media where the encryption key is offline.
    Use a offline Bitcoin Hardware wallet


Deep cold storage refers to keeping a reserve of Bitcoins offline, using a method that makes retrieving coins from storage significantly more difficult than sending them there. This could be done for safety's sake, such as to prevent theft or robbery.

Because Bitcoins can be sent to a wallet by anyone knowing the wallet address, it is trivial to put a wallet in cold storage but to keep a copy of the addresses needed to send funds to it.

A simple example of deep cold storage is opening a safe deposit box and putting a USB stick containing an encrypted wallet file in it. The public (sending) addresses can be used any time to send additional bitcoins to the wallet, but spending the bitcoins would require physical access to the box (in addition to knowledge of the encryption password).

This. Electrum will fill the job.  It is very, very safe and like most other cold wallets.

 I am not up for remembering 16 words.  What if people did that for bank accounts?  At a point, it gets silly unless you have like 2 million USD invested into bitcoin.  Some people act like their security is worth going beyond everything for 500 USD worth of bitcoin.  lol  Would you do expect all this for a bank account that has 500 USD in?

I think Trezor wallet has the best options among the recent bunch.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-trezor-review-promo-code/

+1

@OP

I can highly recommend investing in a Trezor if you plan to store substantial amounts of bitcoin securely. Even if you lose or break your Trezor then your funds are still recoverable with a generated seed which obviously you must keep safe.

For secure long term saving/storage I recommend Trezor, Bitcoin Core & paper wallets. Don't take any risks, keep your bitcoins safe.

Trezor is pretty awesome. Can have any number of wallets hidden behind not only the PIN but also behind passwords. A different password used is a different wallet(collection of addresses) tree. All derived from the same backup seed. Also, from what Ive read, using electrum-ltc you can generate an LTC(seperate seed/wallets w/ passwords) wallet in trezor alongside ur BTC wallet.

But it's prone to failure. A pass protected piece of paper wrapped in fireproof material will survive floods, fires and any other external factors, that's something trezor is missing.

It depends on how many Bitcoins you're planning on saving. If they're upto 10 then I think Offline electrum wallet with it's seed stored somewhere safe will do or laminated Paper wallets and keys put on encrypted pen drives for extra security would be ok but if you're planning to store more than that then a Hardware wallet like Trezor might be best for you.

Nope, the trezor is backed up by a single (1 for btc wallets, 1 additional for LTC wallets Im guessing) BIP standard HD mnemonic seed. Write that down on paper and store the way you mentioned. You pretty much have a highly functional cold storage / hot storage setup.
Even if the HD seed is compromised, they would still have to know ur password to the wallets ur actually using =)

not sure why a trezor would be higher security than offline electrum.

...

LiteCoinGuy's thread on hardware is excellent re keeping up with hardware wallets.

I only have used Ledger Nano and Trezor.  Both have worked just fine.  The Ledger "seems" more physically sturdy. 

The Ledger is also fairly cheap.  If price matters, Ledger Nano. 

Ledger Nano (once you have set it up on a clean -- no malware -- computer) allows you to then use it on any connected computer (even if laden with viruses, etc.).

*   *   *

I am looking forward to a new product apparently coming soon from Switzerland: https://digitalbitbox.com/

The security is probably close to the same, the advantage w/ the trezor is you can use it as a hot wallet but have the security of a cold wallet. Heck, I use my trezor w/ mycelium on android phone. Theres nothing like being able to spend on the go w/ the security of a cold storage wallet =)

Ledger is crap, I have the open source version of it: HW.1, I wouldnt trust any BTC to the device. Has very little software wallet support(greenaddress) which is a piece of shit. Sure, ledger has their own wallet but its online and closed source last I heard. Also the device firmware itself is closed source. Also, if u forget the PIN just 3 times it wipes itself, thats not cool. Has nowhere near the features of trezor.
Lets just say after testing both trezor & HW.1, I trust the trezor WAAAAAY more.
The multiple wallets(yes multiple wallets, not just addresses) behind as many passwords as you can think of on trezor, all backed up by one seed is what I absolutely love about it.
Trezors way of anti keyboard sniffer hacking the PIN is also ingenious, that security is impossible to do w/ a ledger.

Thank you, GenTarkin, for your review, you have clearly tested both Ledger Nano and Trezor more than I have, and have a better understanding than I do.

But, I have not had any problems with the Ledger.  Yes, owners do have to be careful to not enter a wrong password.

Trezor does have one issue I do not like however.  Should someone STEAL it, they can see your transactions and balances, Trezor asks for a password when you send BTC.  Ledger makes you enter the password before peeking to see what's inside...



EDIT: Yes, I like Trezor's 2FA better than Ledger's.

Why would you use some " wallet " ?   You only want to store a private key!!!

For cold storage, you don't need a "wallet", you need paper or a usb key or something like that. 

Perhaps the question should be what wallet do you use for importing a cold storage private key for signing transactions offline? 



 

The whole point is, what if you could have a hot wallet that has the security of a cold storage single priv key?
Thats what trezor offers =)
Trezor allows you to have as many unknown wallets as passwords you can remember in your head. Better yet, a single mnemonic seed backs up all of those wallets. That seed would be the trezor's "cold storage" =) ... But unlike traditional cold storage, that single seed restores all of ur keys in all the wallets u created w/ trezor. Additionally, because trezor's seed is based on a BIP, its restorable via any wallet that correctly supports that BIP(in the case you dont have another trezor).

breadwallet in an old iphone you don't use anymore.

Recommend using a non-ferromagnetic material with good corrosion resistance, like aluminum or high-quality stainless steel.  If you believe hand carving to be intimidating or too time consuming, you can buy a metal punch kit (https://www.google.com/search?q=alphabet+metal+punch) to make the impressions (with a hammer of sorts).

Once complete, add clear coat for some initial resistance to the elements. Real paranoia would be doing this with 2/3 key multisig in 3 different plots of land, or with backup copies, etc.

to keep my bitcoin on the long term I created of paper wallet from an offline computer, and I put them in the bank, I feel comfortable whit this solution

what if you can replicate this with another computer separated from your network, thus in a isolated enviroment but still connected to the internet, where you only do transaction of bitcoin and nothing else, so no browsing no DLing anything no clicking random link ecc...?

i firmly believe that with the right tools you can have an hot wallet that is secure like a cold walelt

I think the best wallet to use for cold storage is using a Paper wallet.
but if you don't have a printer like me you might encounter some problems .

I hear Electrum is nice and easy to use offline.

Best hardware wallet should be Trezor, you can find it here: https://www.bitcointrezor.com/
Paper wallets are not as safe as you think, just do a small research and you will know :)

How aren't they as safe as you think? They are as safe as it gets IMO. Paper will never deteriorate if you cover it with plastic, and even if the wallet is found a password still needed, so I dont see the problem.

Paper as a paper can be safe, but you have to trust the thing that generated you the paper wallet you have and if it wasn't compromised right after the generation was done.

Exactly, all the storage methods have a weak link so far. Trezor seems to me doesn't have one, or at least that I know. Of course you need to trust the developers but in my opinion, they have already proven themselves.

So what about offline use of bitaddress.org?  That should be 'safe' considering that the code have been verified independently.

paper wallet remain unsafe if you use a printer that have a cache and can memorize data, why people can't simply use a usb and a wallet.dat inside it, it's much simple and has the same security, you only need to do it on a secure machine, you can do a secure erase ato resolve this problem

I will suggest you to go for armory ,in Armory users are empowered with multiple encrypted Bitcoin wallets and permanent one-time ‘paper backups’.
Moreover the coins are in your hands always and users never have to trust the Armory team.

Link to Armory: https://bitcoinarmory.com/

the bitcoin-core all the way

You cant replicate the convenience of trezor ... what you mentioned, doesnt sound very convenient. Try that in a retail outfit in which u pay for something using BTC. Its impossible the way you mentioned.
Like I stated, trezor offers pretty much near the same security as a cold storage slip of paper ... with the convenience of a wallet on ur phone. I know, Ive used trezor w/ mycelium on my cell phone =)

Bitcoin Core is for sure. But it's hard to sync with the network. (You should copy and paste the newer blocks to the offline computer with an external hdd or flash drive).

People are not that rich to buy another computer to have their coins "offline"... it's easier to buy TREZOR!
It's just for like 0.4 BTC and it can help you a lot, it is smaller and more safe than an offline pc.

Because I posted in this thread I had better state my opinion for the record, so it doesn't look bad later. 

My opinion:  allowing any third party other than that of the highest personal trust to handle your coin is a bad idea.

That includes: trezor, core, microsoft, armory, etc. etc.  If you are talking cold storage, it shouldn't involve any of that crap.  It's a freaking number man!  Just keep it safe somewhere on your own.  Is that so hard? 

As to "hot" being " secure like cold" ..  uh, no.  Not that I don't recommend to hold funds in hot wallets, there is plenty of reason to do so, but do so knowing that there is an attack surface. 

have you read what i've wrote after, how there can be an attack if you don't download anything and don't click anything on that machine? i'm not aware of any direct attack that work as a ddos or something that can steal your coins, without you allorw it...

also there is no way you can not allow a third party like you say to handle even for a small step your coins, because in the case of paper wallet you're doing so with the printer, which come probably from canon, epson or other known manufacturer

with usb is the same, they are made by someone else, unless you manage to make one your self, or do a whole pc yourself, i find this to be a stupid point, microsoft can't do anything on your windows machine, they can not control it, if that is your worry...

While it may not seem like it, when you think about the practicality of it, it actually is very difficult. If you dont have over a $5000 safe say goodbye to it in any long term fire. You have to trust the software / machine its created on, not only that, but also when you redeem it.
I like the idea of a trezor because while its backed up on a sheet of paper, that piece of paper is backed up by the trezor. Since the piece of paper holds backups to all wallets included any generated by a password .. if the paper gets compromised ... noone would know the passwords behind which ur funds are hidden by. Restore just the seed only and you have a 0 balance wallet restored.
If I had tens of thousands of BTC, Id feel much safe w/ it on a trezor + backup seed on paper(all wallets hidden behind passwords) rather than a single piece of paper holding the fortune and also happens to be a single failure point.
The alternative to a single cold storage piece of paper would be BIP38(I think) encrypting it w/ a decent password and putting multiple copies of that paper everywhere for redundancy.

I'm going to suggest armory, but please note that this recommendation is biased in terms of my own experience with it.  But honestly, I don't see much wrong with a safely-generated core wallet encrypted and backed up on a few USB sticks.  This is a reasonable option, especially if you aren't stashing a significant amount. I have little experience with hardware cold-storage options, so I'm uncomfortable recommending them.

For security you need cold storage for your private keys. This used to be a pain as only two wallets (Armory and Electrum) supported cold storage and two separate computers were needed.

With the introduction of bitcoin hardware wallets cold storage is much more convenient. For reviews of all the available and coming soon bitcoin hardware wallets see my article on a complete guide to bitcoin hardware wallets (https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/a-complete-guide-to-bitcoin-hardware-wallets/).

Very true.  I like to use bitcoin core

Best wallet for cold storage is a properly done paper wallet.  You simply cannot beat it.  Paper does not link to the internet :)

Yes you have to be careful when making it, and also store it in safe place.  But paper wallets are very strong in my mind.

I have had the official Bitcoin Core client hacked by a trojan accidentally downloaded. Password does not protect your private keys. That is why getting your private keys offline or at least secured in a hardware wallet like Trezor is good policy.

Paper wallets are not convenient to use on a day to day basis and really provide no more protection for your private keys than Trezor.

well that's your fault man, it is obvious that if you "give an easy access to your pc to an hacker" you're only asking for trouble

next time don't download anything that has not a digital sign, same goes for any link, problem is solved, i'm follow this simple rule and i never lost any coins on my hot wallet which is almost, always online

I am using Bitcoin Core Client for long time and never have any problem I feel its best and safest wallet for any one

Of course it's the safest wallet around here, because it's the ORIGINAL one! :P Also, I have to mention that it's not safe if your computer is likely infected with any type of malware, keylogger or anything like this. The safest "wallet" is probably TREZOR (https://bitcointrezor.com).

Can't say you were not warned. Anyone who leaves their wallet.dat on an online computer is liable to be hacked, just a matter of time. Does not matter how careful you are, we all make slips. The point is how easy it is now to prevent such loss using a bitcoin hardware wallet to store your private keys offline. Anyone can afford a Ledger Nano. My loss happened before I learned the value of cold storage and hope others take that point to heart. Prefer to use a smartphone? Trezor works a treat (https://youtu.be/g5lwtqsMoAI) with the Mycelium wallet on Android.

Multiple locations solves the fire issue.  If you have still longer time fears, such as for example dying (it happens), you should probably go with a multi-sig fund with your family members of some sort.  The details there are beyond the scope of this thread.  There is one thing that you might argue requires trust, and it isn't key creation.  Key creation is picking a random number which is dead easy, use dice if you can't manage it.  The tricky part is going from privkey -> pubkey -> address so that you can fund the thing.  Personally I go with an offline verified and tested copy of e.g. bitaddress.org running on an offline box (use a rasp. pi e.g.) to do that.   Use the same setup to sign your TX for redemption.     


I guess you said it already :)  Use AES or Twofish or whatever you like to encrypt your privkey if that's what you want to do, and yeah make sure you keep multiple copies around.  I never used the trezor but it looks nice as a high security spending wallet.  Can you put any master privkey in that you like I hope? 

Cheers  --  happy cryptoing --    ftd 

You are right to question the printer, especially with modern printers that are internet equipped.  I use an old one that isn't for printing privkeys, and check to make sure at every step it is doing what is expected of it.   One can also print encrypted keys even with compromised printers if so desired.   USB sticks are also attack vectors and can be used appropriately.  In theory they aren't needed but most people use them anyway, as risk can be kept minimal. 

What do you mean by "microsoft can't do anything on a windows machine"? :D   If your machine is offline (in appropriate faraday cage) then you are right that whoever happens to be holding the MS keys can't do much in real time.  However, most winblowz boxes are online and communicating with the base updating your warez and reading your wallet.dat.  There is no excuse for continuing to wait in line there with the cattle for the slaughter.    

It's worth noting that this kind of security is totally unattainable with fiat, which is so broken on much lower levels that any of this would be a total waste of time.  

What would you say to people who live in North Carolina and New York who might have there isp block by the government because of the laws. I don't know what restriction are for them yet I want to think if I live in that state can I still store them and trade online indstead of mine.

Which one of the options still work, computer wallet, paper, trezor, etc.

among other alternive surely that is aesthetically better  a physical bitcoin, maybe a casascius or lealana coins. Hodl whit style  8)

Well these people can always start using VPN or TOR and do all the things on internet without the limitation. Even newbies can learn how to hide their trails on the Internet and I don't believe governments will go after people that are using VPNs.

Coinbase supports customers both in New York and North Carolina see https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1826671-what-countries-us-states-are-supported-for-coinbase-exchange-

What ISP block are you referring to? All options are available to bitcoin users in those states.

IF
YOUR
WALLET
WAS
ENCRPYTED
ONLINE
IT
IS
NOT
SAFE.

Offline QT wallet is the best method.

What ever the cold storage mechanism is you are still susceptible to losing whatever medium you stored your private key(s) on. You can use nLockTime (https://www.suredbits.com) transactions to mitigate this risk fortunately. You should create nLockTime transactions and store them on a cloud storage service to guarantee you will always be able to recover your bitcoins

If you have some old smart phone then, you can use Bither on it, for cold wallet storage. It has ability receive unspent ouputs
/UTXO through QR code, sign  transactions offline, and send the signed transaction to a hot wallet via QR code.

I prefer Paper Wallets....

PaperSafe.org (http://PaperSafe.org)

In my opinion the best wallet would be block chain wallet because of its encrypting technology.... :) :) :)

best wallet in my sense for cold storage is tezor wallet and paper wallet....☻⢍